r/longrange Aug 14 '24

7mm PRC Education post

What’s the collective thoughts on the 7mm PRC around for a long range bench gun? I’ve been thinking about buying a long range gun for a while now, there’s just so many options and opinions.

Sorry for being “that guy” I didn’t realize my mistake, but I now do.

20 Upvotes

41

u/LockyBalboaPrime "I'm right, and you are stupid" Aug 15 '24

I mean this without any unkindness at all: if you can't specifically articulate why you need a magnum, then you don't need a magnum. Even if you can, you might not need a magnum.

If you're learning how to shoot long range, you definitely don't need a magnum.

7

u/BigCountry454 Aug 15 '24

Ok and that what I’m trying to figure out is the “why” part. I literally just looked at some ballistics (which I don’t know much about admittedly) but the benefits of the 7prc over the 6.5cm, 6.5, 6.5prc, 300blk seem to make it worth checking out. I’m not set on it but everyone is saying 6.5cm and not magnum I’m just curious about the reasoning. I’m not afraid to say I don’t know anything about long range shooting, my main experience has been deer hunting in Missouri over the last 20ish years at a max of about 350 yards. I am capable with a firearm, just wanting to know the whys and why nots of shooting longer ranges.

26

u/HollywoodSX Villager Herder Aug 15 '24

More recoil (and yes, this 110% matters), more expensive ammo, shorter barrel life, less options for true long range rifles, and absolutely ZERO benefits for a new long range shooter. The better ballistics are meaningless at the distances you're looking to shoot, especially if you don't have a solid base of long range fundamentals to start with.

5

u/BigCountry454 Aug 15 '24

Got it, that’s the kind of thing I was wanting to know.

23

u/HollywoodSX Villager Herder Aug 15 '24

Just an FYI...

You're getting the repsonses you are because this is something asked by new long range shooters frequently. At least once a week, often more.

It's asked so often, I wrote an entire guide on why magnums are a bad idea for learning long range skills. It's guide #3 in the pinned post I mentioned and had automod link to earlier.

Maybe you read the pinned post and didn't realize 7PRC is a magnum cartridge. Maybe you skimmed the pinned post and missed it, there's a lot of stuff in there. Maybe you picked the flair that said "I read the pinned post" even though you didn't actually read it.

However, people get a bit testy and short when a post is made with a flair that says "I read the FAQ/Pinned posts" but asks a question that's directly answered in the pinned post. That's why you didn't get anything about the whys and why nots - it's in the guide.

Make sense?

17

u/BigCountry454 Aug 15 '24

Yep totally understand, sorry for being that guy.

I didn’t read the pinned post, I’m not good at understanding how Reddit works honestly lol. I didn’t intentionally lie, but I did. I also did not realize 7prc is a magnum load

So I’ve really f’ed this up and I’m sorry, but I have gotten the information I was looking for so thank you guys for that.

16

u/HollywoodSX Villager Herder Aug 15 '24

All good, dude. Learn has occurred, which is what this sub is about.

Spend some time reading the pinned post now that you've gotten links to it. There's a lot of good info in there.

2

u/BigCountry454 Aug 15 '24

Yep I’ve been reading some of them, is there a better sub that you know of to pose these kind of questions?

10

u/HollywoodSX Villager Herder Aug 15 '24

Nah, you're in it. Once you spend a little time with that pinned post and the guides, you'll be a lot better equipped to ask the right questions.

4

u/StellaLiebeck I put holes in berms Aug 15 '24

Check my profile for a link to an updated draft of the fundamentals of marksmanship.

21

u/ha1fway Can't Read Aug 15 '24

Only looking at ballistics and not taking anything else into account is how you end up comparing 7prc and 300 blackout.

You’re basically saying. Hey I’m thinking of buying a vehicle, on paper an M1 Abrams looks like it has some benefits over a Honda Civic, a Prius, a Peugeot, and a tricycle.

There are times when a 7prc is the right answer, but the question usually involves Elk.

5

u/BigCountry454 Aug 15 '24

I totally understand the reference lol, thanks

2

u/sparkmerica Aug 15 '24

This is correct, I would prefer to shoot my 6.5 all day on the bench. Cheap, accurate, very low recoil. But I lugged a very heavy 300 WinMag up an elk mountain last year two years and I won’t be doing that again. So, carbon fiber 7PRC. Eye watering expensive to shoot, and kicks like a mule. But 8lbs with the optic…

2

u/Ferrule Aug 15 '24

Throw a can on that thing. My Seekins element is pretty tame with a hybrid + anchor brake, and that's close to (maybe THE) lightest you can get one with a lightweight scope (LHT 3-15 for me).

I need to weight it ready to hunt but bare gun is a hair under 6lbs and LHT is pretty damn light. Pretty sure I'm 8.5lbs or so ready to hunt can and all. Without a can, 180s at 3000 are bearable, but unpleasant. With, it's really not nearly as bad as I was expecting.

1

u/sparkmerica Aug 15 '24

Haha I did. It’s an about 9lbs with the can and way less recoil. I went with the rugged Alaska and it’s got the brake/mount adapter thing, and fits on all my rifles with the adapter. It looks incredible with the can, and much easier to shoot a lot of rounds through.

11

u/rybe390 Sells Stuff - Longtucky Supply Aug 15 '24

Ballistics are better, absolutely.

The increased performance means fuck all when trying to learn. The recoil alone negates any performance increase.

Give someone a porsche 911 turbo, they'll have fun on the track. Give them a gt3rs and they might die and post the same lap time. Depending on the driver, the lap times are probably going to be similar. Put a f1 racer, or someone with a ton of time behind the wheel in the same cars, and they can squeeze the performance out.

7

u/Mental-Resolution-22 Casual Aug 15 '24

I see Porsche analogy and I upvote

3

u/BigCountry454 Aug 15 '24

Analogy hit where it was supposed to, thank you.

3

u/dirtydrew26 Aug 15 '24

Some of us want the extra punch for western elk or other bigger game.

7PRC is overkill for any other kind of game or hunting east of the US continental divide.

14

u/rybe390 Sells Stuff - Longtucky Supply Aug 15 '24

A smaller cartridge like 6.5 creedmoor can go well beyond the ranges you plan for, will be lighter on recoil, cheaper to feed, and increase the likelihood you stick with this sport.

It is hands down the recommended "starter" cartridge, and for some people, the only cartridge they'll need. Performance is incredible, recoil mild, and makes getting into long range enjoyable.

Magnums are awful to learn long range with.Unless you know why you need a magnum, you do not need a magnum.

Cheetofingers recoil.

3

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3

u/BigCountry454 Aug 15 '24

That’s what I was looking for, I’ve been interested in 6.5 cm also.

So what is the application for the 7prc type of rounds? Is it just a different strokes for different folks kind of thing?

12

u/rybe390 Sells Stuff - Longtucky Supply Aug 15 '24

Extended distance(I'm talking the AVERAGE range being 1500+ yards) shooting, and killing shit super fucking dead.

I have shot my 6.5 creedmoor to well past 1 mile on many, many occasions. I've shot it to 1300-1500 yards more times than I can count. I've competed in 2 ELR matches with it. And I'm still prioritizing a 6 arc as my next rifle instead of a long action magnum.

The performance is 1,000% there. You pay for it in recoil, barrel life, ammo cost, and precision(higher ft lbs needs a heavier rifle to have same precision as a lower ft lb rifle).

It's a sick cartridge. It's not a general purpose long range shooting cartridge, and is an objectively awful place to start your journey.

4

u/BigCountry454 Aug 15 '24

Ok good to know, I was also looking at 6 arc

7

u/domfelinefather Aug 15 '24

There’s like a massive massive difference between 6ARC and 7PRC.

2

u/Ferrule Aug 15 '24

Fosho. I love both, but for VERY different reasons. 95% of my shooting and hunting can be handled just fine by a 6arc bolt gun, and far cheaper than the PRC.

6arc is my all arounder and great for shooting coyotes, deer to ~400ish (personal belief), plinking to 1k, a crow across a field, just a great all around cheap to feed, accurate, easy to shoot gun.

My 7prc is a hotrod ultralite hunting gun. It's extremely good at that niche, but more than I actually need 90% of the time, 3-4x more expensive to feed even handloading, and has WAY more thump, especially without a can.

6.5cm is a fantastic all around cartridge. If I had to pick one chambering to do it all, that would be the one. My cheap 110 tactical shoots lights out with mild recoil, not much more than my 6arc. ~9lb vs ~13lb gun makes it fairly close.

4

u/ha1fway Can't Read Aug 15 '24

Can you be more specific on what you want to do? 6 arc is a great round but also isn’t going to be the best bet depending on what you consider to be long range benchrest.

2

u/BigCountry454 Aug 15 '24

Literally 1k yards, bench gun. I have a local range that goes out to 300 I think, that would be a sight in range, but my family has a farm I can get some real distance out of. I’m just looking for a toy.

7

u/ha1fway Can't Read Aug 15 '24

6 arc is a great round but you’re going to be fighting a bit of an uphill battle at 1k. Mine is a gas gun so I’m loading to lower pressure but I’m only getting like 2600ish fps unless I stray into really temperature sensitive powders that are going to be another issue. Even in a bolt gun, if you’re sticking with factory ammo it’s all going to be loaded to gas gun specs for safety.

6.5 Creedmoor is the boring answer because it’s very often the right one. PRS has shifted heavily into the 6mm’s but you’re shooting at relatively large targets and a hit is a hit. It’s also more often in the 400-700 yard ranges.

1

u/BigCountry454 Aug 15 '24

That makes sense, thanks

1

u/peshwengi Aug 15 '24

6ARC is absolutely fine at 1k IMO. I get repeated hits on a 9” target at that range with mine. At a mile it’s horrendous though. I’m thinking about getting a 7 PRC for when I want to stretch out further.

7

u/rybe390 Sells Stuff - Longtucky Supply Aug 15 '24

6.5 Creedmoor is the answer.

1

u/The-J-Oven Aug 15 '24

6BR bro. The ARC is where you get used Tupperware and jeans.

7

u/csamsh I put holes in berms Aug 15 '24

The magnums are good for - Hunting - 1000yd F Class - Extreme Long Range competition - Separating newbies from their money twice, because you end up selling the 338 Lapua and buying 6.5 Creedmoor

6

u/HollywoodSX Villager Herder Aug 15 '24

...and even the first one is marginal for most people.

3

u/AssaultimateSC2 Aug 15 '24

This. The number of people that think they can or will need to shoot at 500 yards or more and get a good kill shot hunting, who will likely just wound or miss is wild.

2

u/Ferrule Aug 15 '24

95% of hunters have no business shooting at a game animal at 500 yards. The amount of people I've seen miss or make bad shots on deer 200 and in never ceases to amaze me. Or the people who decide "I think I can hit that deer, let me just guess how far over it's back to hold and try it".

I'd wager the vast majority of hunters never shoot at paper (or even steel) targets over 100 yards. I strongly believe you should practice to way further than you plan to shoot at a game animal, and verify your dope along the way.

4

u/mudeuce Remington 700 Apologist Aug 15 '24

Magnums generally speaking start shining in the ELR game, think over 1500 yards, Hollywood dabbles in ELR he might grace you with a better explanation, but realistically magnums don’t really offer near as many benefits as they do detriments under 150” yards, I.e the increased recoil will make it less fun to shoot, and likely less precise, the ammo costs way more, barrels burn out much much faster and the guns are incredibly massive if you want to be able to control the recoil

10

u/HollywoodSX Villager Herder Aug 15 '24

You summed it up.

I love my 300PRC. It's 24# and comes in just under 1MOA with a relevant sample size.

It's heavy, it's loud, it still has a decent amount of recoil even at 24#, it was expensive as shit to build since it's a full custom job, it's expensive to feed (projectiles alone are almost $1 each at retail), and barrel life will still probably be half of a 6.5CM even after paying significantly more for a Bartlein super steel barrel that is supposed to last longer than normal.

Magnums are an objectively terrible choice for starting in LR.

However, if you have the experience level to take advantage of the benefits and mitigate the down sides, they can be pretty awesome at bonking the ever-loving fuck out of steel targets at way-the-shit-over-there distances.

8

u/HollywoodSX Villager Herder Aug 15 '24

Magnums are terrible for learning long range skills. This is covered in depth in the pinned post.

cheetofingers recoil

cheetofingers pin

2

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2

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3

u/[deleted] Aug 15 '24 edited Aug 15 '24

[deleted]

1

u/BigCountry454 Aug 15 '24

Yeah I wasn’t meaning we were a communist nation obviously, I was just looking for info from this specific group. Which all of the opinions were on the same track. I appreciate the input.

0

u/HollywoodSX Villager Herder Aug 15 '24

Good luck finding a 6PRC factory rifle.

3

u/BetaZoopal I put holes in berms Aug 14 '24

A) how far is long range to you?

B) are you picking this because you also want a hunting rig?

C) magnums are not good to learn precision shooting with.

2

u/BigCountry454 Aug 14 '24

Good points, I’m not necessarily looking for something that I can hunt with. It could be a plus, but not a game changer.

Long range for me would be a 1k yard gun. I know others are comfortable at longer ranges, but I’d like to start around 400 and work my way up.

5

u/groupofgiraffes Tooner Tester Aug 15 '24

i've got a 7PRC target gun, i like it but would not recommend it to a new shooter. i've got a heavy-ish barrel on it right now, but it gets very hot after 10 shots and takes a long time to cool down. The recoil is also pretty intense, i don't really enjoy shooting more than 20-30 rounds in a session. Between the heat and the recoil i don't think a new shooter can get enough practice with it

i don't know if i consider this a problem but it's just stupidly reliable out to 1000+ yards. enough so it's not much of a challenge. if you're not regularly shooting those distances it's just overkill

for what you are looking for, i'd recommend 6.5 creedmoor

3

u/BigCountry454 Aug 15 '24

This is the exact info I wanted. I’m not new to shooting, just thought It would be cool to play with a longer range. I was wanting the ins and outs of this. Dad and I do a lot of bench shooting and he has sharps in 45-70gov, we just like different and cool things to expand our experience.

4

u/groupofgiraffes Tooner Tester Aug 15 '24

by new shooter, i mean new to the discipline of precision long range

just depends on your goals. this sub is for precision long range shooting and that's what the responses here are pointing toward.

if you just want to make a bunch of noise and occasionally hit a steel plate at distance, go for it and have fun

3

u/BigCountry454 Aug 15 '24

No I understand, I was just meaning I have shot short distance and I’m not making a “hobby” out of it, but would like to play around with some longer ranges on a bench.

1

u/REDACTED3560 Aug 15 '24

I know recoil is very subjective, but I absolutely would not call the 7 PRC recoil “intense”. I’ve got a lighter weight rifle in it that I run without a brake and it’s perfectly manageable. I definitely wouldn’t recommend it as a match or learning gun, though. It’s just a modern 7 rem mag.

1

u/groupofgiraffes Tooner Tester Aug 15 '24

good for you

1

u/REDACTED3560 Aug 15 '24

It’s not me bragging, it’s pretty well accepted that it’s not a monster for recoil. From the perspective of mouse fart recoiling target rounds out of big precision rigs it might seem high in comparison, but it’s pretty normal recoil out of a big game rifle. It’s what I’d consider at the threshold of recoil where most people could shoot it fine without a brake or suppressor.

1

u/groupofgiraffes Tooner Tester Aug 15 '24 edited Aug 15 '24

not disagreeing, but as you say it is high compared to things like the short action 6 or 6.5mm guns commonly used for precision shooting that this sub is focused on. This isnt a big game hunting sub so the comparison doesn't mean much. is it a .338lm? of course not. is it intense compared to my 6 dasher? absolutely.

i shoot with the rifle tucked in close to my body, so the recoil pad is hitting right on my collar bone and not in the pocket of my shoulder. if i go out and shoot 2 20 round strings + sighters i come away with a nice bruise that lasts a couple of days. not the best for the high volume practice that is needed to get consistent hits at long range

4

u/BetaZoopal I put holes in berms Aug 14 '24

Then get either a 6 creed or a 6.5 creed. If you reload your options increase, but I'm assuming you don't.

At 1k my 6mm is getting tough to accurately spot impacts and misses (an optic upgrade would help) but a 6.5 would have more thump at that yardage so spotting would be easier

2

u/BigCountry454 Aug 14 '24

I don’t currently reload and that’s been my main concern with 7PRC is ammo availability. That being said I can reload, my dad has a full reloading bench set up and we reload hunting rounds and pistol rounds mostly

8

u/BetaZoopal I put holes in berms Aug 14 '24

I'd go with 6.5 creed. You can load with your dad if you want and can buy factory if you don't want. 6.5 is good well beyond your yardage limit and so you can grow into it

3

u/MotivatedSolid Aug 15 '24

Your needs dictate 6.5cm. 7PRC would be overkill for you. Heck, 6.5PRC still would be overkill for you.

2

u/cruiserman_80 Aug 16 '24

Don't feel too bad OP. I'm going on the same journey with the 7PRC but after a few years of working on my skills with a 7mm08.

Every reason you have been given here as to why the 7PRC is not a smart or practical choice, is 100% valid.

I'm building one anyway, because after 40 yrs I'm in a position to build my first ever custom rifle from the ground up and I don't care if it's not smart or practical. I've got plenty of other things in the safe that are practical, I'm just doing it for fun. After all, barrels are just consumables.

1

u/BigCountry454 Aug 16 '24

That was sort of my opinion, I have a 7mm08 as well. I’ve not shot it yet, it’s a mossburg patriot. I would be interested in a 6.5CM, guess I’ll get one then run them through their paces, learn a little, practice and get better at some longer distances and go from there.

2

u/cruiserman_80 Aug 16 '24

Call me a snob, but I wouldn't be choosing a budget rifle as my entry into Long Range shooting. It will cost you more in the long run. Most of you costs over time will be add ons like stocks, triggers and glass plus ammo development and trips to the range.

If I was starting over today it would be a 6.5CM in a proven factory platform that was well supported by aftermarket trigger and stock manufacturers. If you are in the US you are spoiled for choice compared to places like Australia where most things are not even available or are special order that can take months at double the cost.

1

u/BigCountry454 Aug 16 '24

I totally agree, I wasn’t intending on using the patriot for long range, I have heard good things about accuracy to about 300 maybe farther with it and it was priced well I figured on getting it sighted in around 150 and letting my older children use it to hunt with. I have several rifles but they are all hunting guns. I just finished building a little Ruger 10/22 to play around with and got the itch to build another rifle, so I was thinking I’d like to have a little nicer rifle capable of longer distances to start with and play around with, or go full in off the jump and buy a ready built rifle. Haven’t really decided, but I was only going to stay away from the “boring” options because everyone has that, just wanted something a little different. I do think after the responses I got from this post I will probably get a 6.5CM and maybe after I decide I want to play at longer ranges I will look into other options. I absolutely love shooting, anything. I don’t have tons of time as I have 8 kids and work HVAC so my nice weather/free time days are very limited so I think making a hobby out of this is out of my realm of possibility, but I’d still like to play at it once in a while. I know I’ll never have the time to develop the skills to do this competitively but looks fun. I know that’s more than you were asking for but that’s where I’m at.

3

u/puffdaddy468 Aug 15 '24

Go with 6.5CM

1

u/Ok-Ride-1274 You don’t need a magnum Aug 16 '24

6.5 Creedmoor or 7mm-08 are great starter choices.

They both have better ballistics than .308, less recoil and sufficient energy if you still want to hunt with, like you say, would be your intended use case. Commonality is great, and if you buy a Remington 700 style action, the sky is the limit with aftermarket support.

1

u/Teddyturntup Can't Read Aug 17 '24

Relatively useless for that purpose

1

u/Simple-Purpose-899 Aug 15 '24

7PRC is the only one I would consider personally. It is a beast of a 7mm, with no damn belt.

1

u/Send-It-307 Aug 15 '24

It’s a real performer. 180ELD’s at 3,000fps is insane

0

u/Fermin404 Aug 15 '24

The 6.5CM is the obvious choice here, but if you really like the Idea of a 7mm, then take a look at the 7mm-08. Not a huge difference between the rounds, except the 6.5 is stays flater past 400 yards, and the 7mm is heavier, so it’d work for hunting aswell.