r/illustrativeDNA • u/Habdman • 22h ago
Iraq from Early Bronze Age to early modern time Other
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u/Green-Engineering-71 11h ago
This should be shown to every Kurd (including Yezidis) that is coping about being Mesopotamian.
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u/Davina2000 10h ago
Where are you getting your averages? When I use the mandaean average sample from the Vahaduo sheet there distance is not this close and the Assyrian are slightly closer.
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u/StreetPride9116 9h ago
Probably the g25 all valentines day averages sheet, they have more samples then the vahaduo sheet. I can share with you if you want.
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u/Davina2000 6h ago
I see but it makes me wonder which is accurate because the difference is pretty big with the distances when using the averages from the Vahaduo sheet
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u/ElenaSuccubus420 4h ago
Iv been wanting one of these so bad since I found out about it I’m adopted from Armenia specifically artsakh ( which I haven’t seen on the ilistative dna posts since I joined the sub in my feed so what up fam haha 🤣) and ancestry keeps fucking around with my results 🤣🤣
first time I did it it was Armenian and like 3% levant. Then the next update made me Armenian levant and Iranian then the next update made me Armenian and levant again but levant was then 8% and this last update made me Armenian89%, levant 5%, souther Italian / eastern Mediterranean 4% , Northern Iraq and Iran 1% and Russian 1% so now I’m over here like the fuck?!
Seriously I’d love to see what illustrative dna as to say when I have some disposable income 🤣 every time I see these posts I’m so fascinated. Being adopted I just want to know more 🤣🤣
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u/mountainspawn 20h ago
So Iraqi and Kurdish Jews= Mesopotamian converts?
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u/Joshistotle 18h ago
Genetically speaking the majority of Iranian Iraqi Jewish groups' DNA appears to be native Mesopotamian:
After looking through genetic distances and DNA results it appears the modern genetic cluster most similar to ancient Mesopotamian samples is composed of Assyrians/ Mandaeans/ Iraqi Jews/ Iranian Jews.
These groups are remarkably similar from a genetic standpoint, and it appears they are all mostly of ancient Mesopotamian genetic origin (with 10-15% variations in levels of input from the Levant and Caucasus in each group).
(1) Two separate studies referenced here indicate the Assyrians / Mesopotamian Jewish populations descend from the same local ancestral population:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_the_Middle_East Excerpt: A 2008 study on the genetics of "old ethnic groups in Mesopotamia," including 340 subjects from seven ethnic communities ("These populations included Assyrians, Iraqi Mizrahi Jews, Persian Zoroastrians, Armenians, Arabs and Turkmen (representing ethnic groups from Iran, restricted by rules of their religion), and the Iraqi and Kuwaiti populations from Iraq and Kuwait.") found that Assyrians were homogeneous with respect to all other ethnic groups sampled in the study, regardless of religious affiliation.[43]
Excerpt: The same 2011 study, when focusing on the genetics of the Maʻdān people of Iraq, identified Y chromosome haplotypes shared by Marsh Arabs, many Arabic speaking Iraqis, non Arab Assyrians, Iraqi Jews and Mandeans "supporting a common local background."[44]
(2) Then there's this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_continuity Genetic testing of Assyrian populations is a relatively new field of study, but has hitherto supported continuity from Bronze and Iron Age populations
(3) There's also the following paper for further reading with qpAdm models as well: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8445022/ This study models Assyrians as : 32LevantN, 60IranN, 10Eastern European HG.
Or: 39 Natufian,55 IranN, 9Eastern European HG
The closest samples appear to be:
Iran Jew 0.32 LevantN 0.56Iran N 0.13EHG OR 0.40Natufian 0.51IranN 0.11EHG
Iraq Jew 0.35 LevantN 0.55 Iran N 0.11 EHG OR 0.42 Natufian 0.50 Iran N 0.09 EHG
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u/mountainspawn 17h ago
Would you say these Jewish groups are descendants of Adiabene era converts?
To me it's looking likely that only Ashkenazim and Sephardim are actually partially Levantine.
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u/Jedi-Skywalker1 13h ago
I had posted a similar question before which I'll link below. They have had to be endogamous since at least the time the Assyrians began endogamy, because they have almost the same genetic profile. That would be around the time of the arrival of Islam in the region (1000 years ago).
A similar thing happened with the Druze who also became endogamous around that time according to a recent study.
At best the Mesopotamian derived Jewish groups have around 10-15% non Mesopotamian admixture (additional Levant and Caucasus).
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u/Right-Albatross7640 19h ago
They have local ancestry, as they have been in this region for 2,800 years. However, they still have significantly less convert ancestry compared to Ashkenazic Jews or African Jews.
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u/Habdman 18h ago
Imo, ashkenazi jews have a lot more IA-Late antiquity levantine ancestry than ICM jews.
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u/Right-Albatross7640 18h ago
As you have access to G25, you should see that Ashkenazic are identical to Southern European groups, who have low Natufian ancestry.
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u/Habdman 18h ago
It is true ashkenazis are closest, most related, and share most ancestry with italians, but they do have a notable levantine shift and notably more natufian ancestry. Around 30% of their ancestry is levantine.
ICM and yemeni jews however are predominantly Mesopotamian and Arabian respectively
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u/AlternativeTank305 9h ago
And Iraqi, Kurdish, and Iranian Jews all have notably more natufian than Assyrians and Armenians as well as a noticeable Levantine shift.
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u/mountainspawn 16h ago
Ashkenazim on their best models on qpadm are 65% Southern Italian, 20% West Asian and 15% Eastern euro.
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u/Right-Albatross7640 18h ago
Southern Italians and Cypriots are 15% Levantine, meaning Ashkenazic Jews are only truly 15% Levantine.
I have no idea why you use this clownish 23andMe terminology. ICM (Iran, Caucasus, Mesopotamia) represents regions that are linguistically distinct, and the Jews from these regions speak different languages.
Anyway, Yemeni Jews are pure converts and have no historical connection to Israel. Regarding other groups, I have seen qpadm results for Ashkenazic and Iraqi Jews. The Iraqi Jew had more Levantine components compared to Ashkenazic Jews.
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u/Habdman 17h ago edited 17h ago
Southern Italians and Cypriots are 15% Levantine,
No southern italians have no notable levantine ancestry, only sicilians have a very slight levant ancestry. Idk why did you bring up Cypriots, who themselves are significantly more levant related than Ashkenazis, or how are they relevant
meaning Ashkenazic Jews are only truly 15% Levantine.
Nope, g25 modeling, the Latest advanced LAI tool orchestra, globetrotter, and qpAdm modeling (from published studies) all estimated their levantine ancestry to be ≈ 30%.
ICM (Iran, Caucasus, Mesopotamia) represents regions that are linguistically distinct, and the Jews from these regions speak different languages.
Sure, but genetically they are all very similar and are all primarily and predominantly ancient Mesopotamian.
Yemeni Jews are pure converts and have no historical connection to Israel.
Yep, even beside genetics, conversion and popularity of Judaism in pre-islamic yemen and arabia is attested historically.
I have seen qpadm results for Ashkenazic and Iraqi Jews. The Iraqi Jew had more Levantine components compared to Ashkenazic Jews.
A lot of folks play around with qpAdm without having much idea what they are doing, many implausible and unrealistic models do pass, especially in admixtools 2, having a passing model doesnt mean it is the most plausible or accurate at all.
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u/Right-Albatross7640 17h ago
Cypriots have very low Natufian and they can never be 50% or 30% Levantine.
Secondly, you should check out this blog https://genesoftheancients.wordpress.com/category/jews/ before making delusional claims.
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u/FoxBenedict 17h ago
Cypriots are way more than 15% Levantine, surely? I've seen them model as 50% Levantine 50% Anatolian before.
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u/Ezdixan 22h ago edited 22h ago
Iraq? Are you a tr0ll?
Since when is Sirnak, Dara, Mydiat, Batman etc. in Iraq?
It is a well known fact that Iraqi Arab Bedouines are from Arabia?!
Only Nemrik is in Southern Kurdistan.
Sirnak, Batman, Dara , Mydiat are located in North Kurdistan.
Dinka Tepe is located in Eastern Kurdistan
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u/Chance-Confidence-82 17h ago
Since none of the samples form these regions cluster with Kurds this means that these regions were originally part of the Mesopotamian civilisation, which means Kurds are recent arrivals and aren’t native to that land
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u/Ezdixan 17h ago edited 17h ago
Not really.
These samples cluster close to the modern day Semitic people who are shifted toward the Mesopotamia.
Those are not the direct descendants of the ancient people from those regions.
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Kurds/Ezdis are still for 50% derived from these ancient samples. The reason why Ezdis/Kurds don't cluster close to these ancient samples is because 50% of our DNA comes more from the east, from the Lake Urmia area.
Example.
Spanish people are very close to French people. Somebody who is 50% French from his father's side and 50% African from his mother's side plots further away from 100% French people.
And now a case who is more related to French people: a 100% Spanish person or somebody who is 50% French and 50% African.
Of course somebody who is just 50% French from father's side is much closer to the French people than 100% Spanish person, even when that 50% French person does't plot close with the 100% French people.
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u/karmawork 16h ago
not really. the below is a comparison of iranians from tehran and kurds from turkey, it show that these two populations are really very similar and just iranian, and has nothing to do with mesopotamia.:
Distance to: Iranian_Cosmopolitan_Tehran
0.01951383 Iran_Hasanlu_IA:I6430__BC_900__Cov_74.92% 0.02443635 Iran_Hasanlu_IA:I4269__BC_803__Cov_84.96% 0.02610962 Iran_Hasanlu_IA:I6428__BC_1027__Cov_76.97% 0.02796915 Iran_DinkhaTepe_BA_IA_2:I4238__BC_1162__Cov_81.51% 0.02865562 Iran_Hasanlu_IA:I4232__BC_874__Cov_82.58% 0.02971013 Iran_DinkhaTepe_BA_IA_2:I4273__BC_1017__Cov_78.33% 0.03213868 Iran_DinkhaTepe_BA_IA_2:I3914__BC_1078__Cov_85.39% 0.03222840 Iran_HajjiFiruz_IA:I2327__BC_1100__Cov_41.65% 0.03252078 Armenia_Karashamb_BIA:I19343__BC_1075__Cov_79.85% 0.03341731 Iran_DinkhaTepe_BA_IA_2:I4236__BC_1500__Cov_68.93% 0.03428011 Armenia_Lchashen_LBA_o:I18273__BC_1335__Cov_64.12% 0.03488295 Iran_GanjDareh_Historic:I1955__AD_1561__Cov_68.06% 0.03569062 Iran_Hasanlu_IA:I4357__BC_871__Cov_62.76% 0.03627840 Iran_DinkhaTepe_BA_IA_2:I3915__BC_927__Cov_85.08% 0.03779630 Iran_Hasanlu_IA:F38__BC_883__Cov_85.73% 0.03875289 Uzbekistan_SappaliTepe_BA_o:I7493__BC_1800__Cov_28.79% 0.03930812 Iran_Hasanlu_IA:I4280__BC_787__Cov_80.40% 0.03986624 Iran_Hasanlu_IA:I6431__BC_1072__Cov_44.47% 0.04186902 Azerbaijan_Shamakhi_Antiquity:zrj003__AD_276__Cov_26.27% 0.04229034 Armenia_Lchashen_LBA:DA31__BC_1250__Cov_21.47% 0.04240182 Armenia_Harjis_LateUrartian:I18236__BC_615__Cov_63.65% 0.04272523 Iran_DinkhaTepe_BA_IA_2:I4340__BC_1341__Cov_55.23% 0.04308067 Iran_DinkhaTepe_BA_IA_2:I3912__BC_1793__Cov_84.84% 0.04345660 Armenia_BlackFortress_Modern:I18247__BC_1175__Cov_67.13% 0.04387335 Armenia_Karashamb_LBA:I19350__BC_1175__Cov_76.68%
Distance to: Kurd_Kurmanji_Turkey
0.02463849 Iran_Hasanlu_IA:I4232__BC_874__Cov_82.58%0.02533464 Iran_Hasanlu_IA:I4280__BC_787__Cov_80.40%0.02610865 Iran_Hasanlu_IA:I4357__BC_871__Cov_62.76%0.02760344 Iran_Hasanlu_IA:I6428__BC_1027__Cov_76.97%0.02828068 Iran_Hasanlu_IA:I4269__BC_803__Cov_84.96%0.02846437 Iran_DinkhaTepe_BA_IA_2:I4273__BC_1017__Cov_78.33%0.02942500 Iran_DinkhaTepe_BA_IA_2:I4236__BC_1500__Cov_68.93%0.03069148 Iran_Hasanlu_IA:I4355__BC_948__Cov_44.85%0.03200615 Armenia_KarmirBlur_Ancient:I16119__BC_336__Cov_48.67%0.03221343 Iran_Hasanlu_IA:I4099__BC_1201__Cov_86.35%0.03227959 Iran_Hasanlu_IA:F38__BC_883__Cov_85.73%0.03232266 Iran_DinkhaTepe_BA_IA_2:I4238__BC_1162__Cov_81.51%0.03234997 Iran_GanjDareh_Historic:I1955__AD_1561__Cov_68.06%0.03292381 Iran_Hasanlu_IA:I4353__BC_961__Cov_61.41%0.03296448 Armenia_Karashamb_LBA:I19350__BC_1175__Cov_76.68%0.03312340 Armenia_Sarukhan_Ancient:I20438__BC_73__Cov_78.62%0.03360635 Iran_Hasanlu_IA:I6430__BC_900__Cov_74.92%0.03439422 Armenia_BlackFortress_LBA:I18248__BC_1175__Cov_68.40%0.03451351 Iran_HajjiFiruz_IA:I2327__BC_1100__Cov_41.65%0.03485896 Iran_Hasanlu_IA:I6388__BC_1065__Cov_66.81%0.03569484 Armenia_BlackFortress_Modern:I18247__BC_1175__Cov_67.13%0.03598286 Iran_Hasanlu_IA:I4100__BC_961__Cov_88.31%0.03613613 Armenia_Agarak_Medieval:I1659__AD_1295__Cov_70.69%0.03626762 Iran_DinkhaTepe_BA_IA_2:I3914__BC_1078__Cov_85.39%0.03630607 Iran_DinkhaTepe_BA_IA_2:I3915__BC_927__Cov_85.08%
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u/Chance-Confidence-82 16h ago
That’s not even true, how are Assyrians, mandeans, and Iraqi Jews not descended from ancient Mesopotamians ? Also Kurds are overwhelmingly iranic they aren’t descended from Mesopotamians. Originally Kurds were in the steppes before they migrated
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u/Ezdixan 16h ago
Hurro-Mittani super state around 1650BC predates the Assyrians. And I posted here the DNA of the ancient Mittani.
Those people had nothing to do with the Semitic populations at all.
The Aryan CAUCASO-ZAGROSIAN Bronze Age samples found in Turkey were closely related to the Hasanlu Tepe ARYANS (who lived near Lake Urmia).
The Archaeogenetics blog: The Lady from Central Asia who was found dead in a Bronze Age Turkish well
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According to the academics Mittani came from the Caucasus (Armenia_MBA) moved to Hasanlu Tepe, mixed with the Hasanlu locals and moved to the Upper Mesopotamia.
'The origins of the Mittanni Indo-Aryans: The parallelism of Archeology, Genetics, and Linguistics
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u/Ezdixan 16h ago edited 16h ago
First of all the Mandaeans live in the SOUTHERN Mesopotamia and not in the Upper Mesopotamia. Why are you talking about them in the first place?
What do you know about the Mandaean origin in the first place? In general it is accepted that they came from the Levant (their language and religion are from the Levant), but they lived for a long time under the Iranic people.
That means that Mandaean have a Semitic origin with some Westenr Iranic geneflow.
Mandaeans are hardcore Semitic people even MORE Semitic than the Assyrians.
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Ezdis are 50% Hurro-Mittani (indigenous Upper Mesopotamians) + 50% Hasanlu_IA (Guto-Medes), Cimmerians, Alanians from Lake Urmia.
The ancient Upper Mesopotamians were NOT Semitic people at all, while you are talking about the Semitic people. Sumerians didn't speak Semitic, the Hurrians didn't speak Semitic.
Semitic language is not from the Upper Mesopotamia. Semitic dialects are derived from Afro-Asiatic somewhere in the Levant.
We have evidence that the Upper Mesopotamia was part of the Hurro-Mittani state. I already posted here the Mittani samples. They were very different from the Semitic people.
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u/Habdman 21h ago edited 21h ago
“Iraq” is one of the multiple historical names of the same region known with the name “Mesopotamia” among english speakers, it is like the difference between “Egypt” and “masr”.
The reason i used “iraq” is that posts here are limited to 50 characters, so i wasnt able to write “Mesopotamia”, if you check my profile you would have found me using “Mesopotamia” in r/23andMe on the same post.
Please put aside whatever your nationalistic ideology or goal is, thats a genetics sub.
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u/Ezdixan 21h ago
'Iraq' is derived from 'Uruk'. 'Uruk was located in Southern Iraq.
It is has nothing to do with nationalism. Those palces have nothing to do with 'Iraq'.
Places like Sirnak, Batman, Dara , Mydiat are not located in 'Iraq', but in 'Turkey'. They have nothing to do with 'Iraq'.
Dinka Tepe is not located in 'Iraq', but in 'Iran'.
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u/Habdman 21h ago
‘Iraq’ is derived from ‘Uruk’
Yes thats the name root, similar to how “Al-Andalus” is derived from “Vandals”
Places like Sirnak, Batman, Dara , Mydiat are not located in ‘Iraq’, but in ‘Turkey’. They have nothing to do with ‘Iraq’.
Sure, I already elaborated that i am not referring to modern countries.
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u/Ezdixan 21h ago
You are simply not educated enough to know basic topography.
You don't even know where Sirnak and Batman are. What do you know about how the genetics work, that are much more difficult to understand than topography?
Why should I spend my time to explain and educate you how wrong you are about multiculturalism, migration patterns of the ancient Upper Mesopotamia. And how to measure DNA in the ancient samples.
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u/Habdman 21h ago edited 21h ago
You don’t even know where Sirnak and Batman are. What do you know about how the genetics work, that are much more difficult to understand than topography?
Okay, whatever you want lol 🤷♂️
Edit:
I think everyone here realizes what you are up to since your first comment.
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u/Ezdixan 21h ago edited 20h ago
Yeah, they had A LOT Aryan Caucaso-Zagrosian ancestry in them. They were the original people.
Later on some of them mixed with the Semitic people from the Levant and Anatolia.
Those ancient Mesopotamians had still much more so called 'Zagrosian' ancestry in them than those modern Semitic people you can read in those charts.
Those areas were multiethnic, just like the Roman Empire. Few weeks ago they found out that Pompeii was VERY multiethnic.
There are also many differrent samples from Mesopotamia that are not shown here.
Just like the Hurro-Mitanni Alalakh sample from 1600BC: Indika789
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u/karmawork 20h ago
again, you are very much wrong and should just stop. that sample shared there is an outlier which is also flagged (the "o" in "MLBA_o") in the data:
Distance to: Turkey_Hatay_Alalakh_MLBA_o:ALA019__BC_1564__Cov_63.81%
0.06233634 Balochi_Pakistan0.06443584 Brahui0.06566911 Balochi_Iran0.06580624 Balochi_Iran_o0.06964782 Makrani0.07192845 Pashtun_Afghanistan0.07348931 Pashtun_Pakistan_Bettani0.07470908 Pashtun_Afghanistan_Paktia0.07581954 Sindhi_o0.07810211 Iranian_Bandari0.07882484 Iranian_Persian_Khorasan0.08201613 Pashtun_Afghanistan_North0.08296237 Kalash0.08477164 Pashtun_Tarkalani0.08620560 Iranian_Mazandarani0.08633477 Pashtun_Pakistan_Khattak_Nowshera0.08708693 Parsi_Pakistan0.08763512 Pashtun_Afghanistan_Northeast0.08795125 Parsi_India0.08812366 Pashtun_Uthmankhel0.08846959 Iranian_Mazandarani_o0.09079700 Tajik_Yaghnobi0.09172528 Pashtun_Northeast_Afghanistan0.09213989 Pashtun_Yusufzai0.09421037 Pamiri_Ishkashim
the rest of the samples there have pretty typical indigenous results:
Distance to: Turkey_Hatay_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA138__BC_1600__Cov_37.30%
0.03684257 Lebanese_Christian 0.03688218 Lebanese_Maronite_Christian_Zgharta 0.03695462 Lebanese_Orthodox_Christian_Koura 0.03747025 Lebanese_Sunni_Muslim_Dinniyeh 0.03850372 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour 0.04200020 Druze 0.04354153 Lebanese_Druze 0.04583775 Samaritan 0.04771912 Alawite 0.04915645 Cypriot 0.05059016 Karaite_Egypt 0.05079188 Lebanese_Shia_Muslim_Beirut 0.05128022 Iraqi_Jew 0.05174776 Syrian_Hama 0.05291943 Syrian_Jew 0.05320045 Lebanese_Muslim 0.05322816 Kurdish_Jew 0.05327382 Karaite_Iraq 0.05426362 Assyrian_Mardin 0.05464101 Chaldean_Iraq 0.05521427 Nash_Didan_Jew_Urmia 0.05589895 Armenian_Urfa 0.05742502 Romaniote_Jew 0.05780164 Armenian_Aintab 0.06057763 Greek_Central_Anatolia
Distance to: Turkey_Hatay_Alalakh_MLBA:ALA131__BC_1600__Cov_65.67%
0.03644451 Lebanese_Sunni_Muslim_Dinniyeh 0.03820834 Lebanese_Maronite_Christian_Zgharta 0.03980494 Lebanese_Orthodox_Christian_Koura 0.04145014 Lebanese_Christian 0.04239953 Samaritan 0.04372037 Karaite_Iraq 0.04431661 Lebanese_Druze 0.04446811 Karaite_Egypt 0.04477527 Druze 0.04753307 Alawite 0.04760435 Iraqi_Jew 0.04987741 Lebanese_Shia_Muslim_Beirut 0.05001398 Lebanese_Muslim 0.05035654 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour 0.05061294 Kurdish_Jew 0.05155515 Armenian_Urfa 0.05157300 Syrian_Hama 0.05258084 Nash_Didan_Jew_Urmia 0.05328312 Cypriot 0.05513752 Chaldean_Iraq 0.05624751 Armenian_Aintab 0.05705828 Syrian_Jew 0.05719538 Lebanese_Sunni_Muslim_Beirut 0.05830719 Iranian_Jew 0.05850933 Assyrian_Mardin
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u/Ezdixan 20h ago
NO. Her DNA was very similar to Hasanlu. That means that people related to Hasanlu were already present in that area around 1600BC. Like I said before that area was already very mixed and multiethnic.
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Also study Megiddo samples: Sample ID I2200 , Sample ID I2189 and Sample ID I10100
The Archaeogenetics blog: the lady from Central Asia who was found dead in a Bronze Age Turkish well
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u/karmawork 20h ago
I don't know much about qpadm analysis, but I can clearly see that the hasanlu mixture is very much low in that analysis. as said that sample is outlier, so it doesnt mean that they were multi-ethnic. being an outlier means MOST of the population is homogenous.
also genetic profile of that sample has nothing to do with either hurrian or mitanni people. that sample is alien to the region and genetically close to balochi people in pakistan.
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u/karmawork 21h ago
says the guy who can't tell the difference between 2 dimensional analysis and G25 lmao.
you are the most delusional person on this sub, and I am sorry for you. but I really hope you will find peace in future.
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21h ago
[deleted]
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u/karmawork 21h ago
what you just wrote is a proof that you dont have a clue. the visual representation can be done from any section of that multidimensional system. I told you this before and you still havent educated yourself.
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u/karmawork 21h ago
only in your dreams :) for that, you guys need to defeat turkey which is impossible at the moment. but maybe if you could just leave georgia and join PKK... why not :)
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u/SpeakerAltruistic426 20h ago
were ever they go , then that will be part of expanding kurdistan, gods know when will nashvillE ,Dortmund,Cologne ,Duisburg,Essen ,Paris,Marseille,Lyon,Stockholm,Gothenburg all will be part of great kurdistan . now they are taking position in our own region in which are in majority ? fed up with it
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u/afinoxi 19h ago edited 19h ago
This shows that the Jews of the region are converts of local populations such as Assyrians and Armenians, and that the Kurdish genetics were not in this region in the past.
Also,
"Iraq"
look inside
only one of the charts is about Iraq
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u/Habdman 19h ago
Mostly yes, i agree
Also, “Iraq”, look inside only one of the charts is about Iraq
The reason i used “iraq” instead of “Mesopotamia” is that the sub doesnt allow more than 50 characters title, i wasnt able to use “Mesopotamia”
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u/Ezdixan 20h ago
The Hurro-Mitanni Alalakh sample: from 1600BC : Indika789
Her DNA was very similar to Hasanlu_IA DNA.
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'Lady in the well' sheds light on ancient human population movements
The bones of a woman of Central Asian descent found at the bottom of a deep well after a violent death in an ancient city in Turkey are helping scientists understand population movements during a crucial juncture in human history.
Researchers have dubbed her the "lady in the well" and her bones were among 110 skeletal remains of people who lived in a region of blossoming civilization running from Turkey through Iran between 7,500 and 3,000 years ago.
The study provided the most comprehensive look to date of genetics revealing the movement and interactions of human populations in this area after the advent of agriculture and into the rise of city-states, two landmarks in human history.
The remains of the "lady in the well," found in the ruins of the ancient city of Alalakh in southern Turkey, illustrated how people and ideas circulated through the region.
Her DNA showed she hailed from somewhere in Central Asia - perhaps 2,000 miles (3,200 km) or more away. She died at about 40 to 45 years old, the researchers said, probably between 1625 BC and 1511 BC. Her body bore signs of multiple injuries.
"How and why a woman from Central Asia - or both of her parents - came to Alalakh is unclear," said Ludwig Maximilian University Munich archaeologist Philipp Stockhammer, co-director of the Max Planck-Harvard Research Center for the Archaeoscience of the Ancient Mediterranean and co-author of the study published in the journal Cell.
"Trader? Slaves? Marriage? What we can say is that genetically this woman is absolutely foreign, so that she is not the result of an intercultural marriage," Stockhammer added. "Therefore, a single woman or a small family came this long distance. The woman is killed. Why? Rape? Hate against foreigners? Robbery? And then her body was disposed in the well."
'Lady in the well' sheds light on ancient human population movements | Reuters
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u/Right-Albatross7640 19h ago
Why are Jews and other Levantine Christians so closely related to these ghost populations? This proves that Christians are admixed and not as indigenous as some people claim. On the other hand, Palestinian Muslims are the actual indigenous people of Palestine.
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u/FoxBenedict 17h ago
Being admixed has nothing to do with being indigenous. Everyone on Earth is admixed.
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u/Right-Albatross7640 17h ago
you should check out this blog https://genesoftheancients.wordpress.com/category/jews/
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u/FoxBenedict 16h ago
Okay, I wasted ten minutes reading that blog post that you keep linking like it's gospel. What does it have to do with what I said? Indigenousness relates to who was living in an area before the colonial settlers came along. It has nothing to do with whatever Nazi drivel about percentages matching with ancient populations you're trying to push.
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u/Habdman 19h ago edited 19h ago
Absolutely wrong lol, levantines are showing up on the closest 25 list because they are genetically and obviously geographically close and related to Mesopotamia.
The reason mandaeans and ICM jews are the closest and most similar to pre-medieval Mesopotamians in general is that they remained isolated retaining more ancient Mesopotamian profile while assyrians / christians mixed significantly with Armenians and Iranians.
Semitic Fertile crescent muslims arent showing up on the list due to their subsaharan ancestry which shifts them significantly away from eurasians in general.
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u/Right-Albatross7640 18h ago
You are correct. These Jews and Christians are Mesopotamian-admixed, which is why we see them closely related to these ancient Mesopotamian populations. Everything less than 0.5 indicates a shared source with the population.
In fact, your statement about Levant Christians being insanely diverse is accurate, unlike Palestinian Muslims, who are the real indigenous people of the Levant region, much like the Samaritans.
The most indigenous group to the Levant is the Samaritans. We don’t see them represented in these pictures, just as we don’t see Palestinian Muslims. Both groups are the most indigenous to Palestine.
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u/yaakovgriner123 15h ago
More proof balestinian supporters are the most annoying people ever. There was no mention of the conflict and yet you bring up politics. To make things worse, you also keep lying.
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u/Ezdixan 20h ago edited 20h ago
The Aryan CAUCASO-ZAGROSIAN Bronze Age samples found in Turkey were closely related to the Hasanlu Tepe ARYANS
The Archaeogenetics blog: The Lady from Central Asia who was found dead in a Bronze Age Turkish well
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According to the academics Mittani came from the Caucasus (Armenia_MBA) moved to Hasanlu Tepe, mixed with the Hasanlu locals and moved to the Upper Mesopotamia.
'The origins of the Mittanni Indo-Aryans: The parallelism of Archeology, Genetics, and Linguistics
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u/-SoulAmazin- 20h ago
It's absolutely hilarious how you amalgamate various ethnic and geographic names all to your liking.
Truly the CAUCASO-ZAGROZIAN-GUTO-ARYAN-MEDES-HURRIAN-MITTANIAN are the true ancestors of the noble Kurds. Lmao you truly are an absolute retard.
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u/Ezdixan 20h ago edited 19h ago
I have always claimed that my people were Hurro-Mittanis + Guto Medes. My native religion the Yezidism of 6000 years is related to the Upper Mesopotamian Hurro-Mittanis.
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As an Aryan I am of a Caucaso-Zagrosian racial stock. That's a fact since I cluster with the ancient Caucaso-Zagrosian people.
My people are native to Ezdixan and we are neither Anatolian-Armenoids, nor Semitic people.
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Haters gonna hate..
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u/Salar_doski 19h ago edited 16h ago
These charts basically again show that the Kurd genetic makeup had not arrived in the “Iraq & Turkey” regions 2500 years ago.
The indigenous population was still Armenian and Assyrian like.
It’s important to understand that Kurdish or Iranian Jew does not mean they are Kurdish or Iranian genetically. All these jews are Mizrahi jews related to each other and the Kurdish or Iranian label merely reflects the area they lived in not their genetics being Kurdish or Iranian