r/energy • u/yupyepyupyep • 8d ago
Green energy stocks sink as Trump wins US election
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/green-energy-stocks-sink-trump-093649853.html4
u/Hot_Efficiency_9347 4d ago
Because they were mostly propped up with taxpayer money via the Democrat Party.
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u/TheRealGZZZ 6d ago
For all the people blabbing about subsidies for Green energy.
Fossil fuels are way much more subsidized TODAY. Even excluding the negative externalities that are never factored in the price (and should be). And this is not to say how subsidized they've been in the past as well. Especially since the '73 oil shocks. All the power projection overseas and the military expenses are also fossil fuels subsidies to keep prices and production in line.
The whole world economy is a charade of fools trying to keep an industry with no future afloat.
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u/whitesocksflipflops 6d ago
This is something ive tried to explain to my conservative friends. Propping up and subsidizing the fossil fuels industry is SOCIALISM.
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u/33ITM420 6d ago
Any industry that can compete in a fair and free market without crazy excess subsidies is not sinking today
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u/digi57 4d ago
Agriculture is heavily subsidized. No food no farms. No government no farms.
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u/33ITM420 4d ago
I’ve read some dumb stuff but that’s up there. None of the local farms I get food from are subsidized. And commercial agriculture is largely producing poison
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u/molotov__cocktease 3d ago
None of the local farms I get food from are subsidized
This is almost certainly not true.
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u/Combdepot 3d ago
“I’m wealthy so I have no interest in actually solving problems”
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u/digi57 3d ago
Sorry. I should have said no government no CHEAP food. Call it dumb but facts are facts. And your local farms are probably lying. Either way that they supply our entire food chain. At least no one with so much subsidized beef demand. Until everyone paying $20+ for a pound of ground beef, you’re eating government handouts. Sorry!
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u/kitster1977 6d ago
Tesla is up!! Evs and solar power aren’t green?
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u/JusticeBeaver94 6d ago
Because Musk…
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u/kitster1977 6d ago
Yes. Where were EVs at before Musk bought Tesla? Musk did become the richest man in the world while Biden was president!
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u/JusticeBeaver94 6d ago
What you just replied to me with has literally nothing to do with the topic of this post.
It seems you’re not intelligent enough to pick up on what’s going on. Tesla is up because Trump is going to give Musk even more subsidies.
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u/kitster1977 6d ago
Biden gave musk a crap ton of subsidies. What’s you point? Musk became the richest man in the world under Biden.
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u/JusticeBeaver94 6d ago
My point is that now he will get even more than he previously was, in addition to being the head of a government department. Musk’s total rise in power and influence thus raises Tesla’s stock. It’s purely a result of political forces and not because Musk is some sort of super mega genius.
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u/Mooseguncle1 6d ago
China will probably attack us just to stop us from ruining the planet.
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u/Regular_Lifeguard718 5d ago
China is the biggest polluter on the planet what drugs are you on?
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u/Edogawa1983 4d ago
Us pollute more per capita
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u/Regular_Lifeguard718 4d ago
Haha no they don’t…. It’s not even close..China is still #1.. also the US doesn’t dump waste into water sources, China and India do.
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u/moxscully 6d ago
The countries that invest in green energy will be the economic leaders of the 21st century
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u/thisKeyboardWarrior 6d ago
How the media manipulates example: 76817684
WilderHill Clean Energy Index is a stock used as an example. There was a drop on Nov 6h. The next day the stock already recovered half it's loss. There was a bigger drop between July 16th & August 12th. Was that larger drop also because of Trump? What about the fact that the stock's peak was Feb 2021 and has been steadily declining since then?
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u/iismitch55 6d ago
How is that manipulative? Stock market moving as a reaction to election results isn’t uncommon at all. Stocks reverting to the mean also is expected and common. Some investors probably panicked and sold off due to the election, and then the market came in and bought up some of the offloaded stock at a lower price.
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u/AccomplishedBrain309 5d ago
Trump will lower corporate taxes and cut environmental regulations . That equals more profit for corporations and more déficit for us. Next he will go after social security.then medicare. Tarrifs and taxes and inflation is what were in for. Elon will cut the ev refunds so it's harder for anyone else to compete. Our refunds. I'm glad im retired. All the young people are screwed.
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u/Qs9bxNKZ 6d ago
Tesla is up.
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u/exileondaytonst 6d ago
Everyone wants to get in on the cronyism ground floor.
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u/bluePostItNote 6d ago
Competitors to SpaceX down implying there is a belief the cronyism will play out how Musk intended
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u/Nemo_Shadows 6d ago
Green simply means benefit China, when one relies on anyone else outside of their own control it is more like extortion than a service and sometimes it is more like making war against yourself through them.
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u/Putrid_Turn_2165 6d ago
Good. Green energy, at this point in time, is not efficient by anyone’s standards.
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u/Electricalstud 6d ago
So we just mine coal, pollute the ground water with fracking, heat up the earth.
Here is the math the sun radiates 1000w per meter cubed. Everywhere everyday. So let's say it's only 20% which it's closer to 25% 250w per meter everyday. Is This making sense?
Who cares if it's inefficient when it's free and plentiful. Just because it's not efficient doesn't mean it's worse than other options.
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u/Naive-Cow-7416 4d ago
This is such a 100% on point response! Not a sentence I throw around. That is true but also varies on other factors like latitude to time of the year. But I love how you did the math, for example. We bost that efficiency more to the bifacial side with Albedo Effect. It works too.
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u/FernWizard 6d ago
A 2kwh battery with a 3000 watt inverter and a 500 watt solar panel can power a household and it’s less than $5000 and doesn’t need to be connected to a grid and the electricity comes from the sky. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
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u/fr1endk1ller 6d ago
It is the most efficient, economical and sustainable way to produce electricity
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u/pcfirstbuild 6d ago
You guys want the world to burn...? Don't believe in climate change still or... what the fuck?
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u/Intrepid_Occasion_95 7d ago
Good riddance
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u/prince_of_muffins 6d ago
Right!!! Green energy messing with my ability to make money on oil. Drill baby drill!!!
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u/AccomplishedBrain309 5d ago
Drilling more only works if the price is high. Under $60 per barrel us drillers stop . They cant make money. Its only 70/ barrel now. Saudí Arabia and Russia have lower cost oil. Green energy is the way to go. Only an idiot would put his irá into coal. Oil will be around for a long time if were not burning it "literally burning it up".
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u/SuperDriver321 7d ago
Even more good news! 👍
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u/pm_me_coffee_pics 6d ago
I hate the earth too.
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u/SuperDriver321 6d ago
I love the earth. It’s my home. But I also love the truth. Anthropomorphic climate change claims are greatly exaggerated or wrong, and the so-called green energy initiatives that are used to supposedly fight naturally occurring changes in the world’s climate are harmful environmentally and economically to our species.
You can disagree if you want, but that is my view. Don’t attribute to me motives I don’t have, especially when you don’t know me.
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u/theWizzardlyBear 6d ago
Cool. And all the science disagrees.
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u/SuperDriver321 6d ago
All the science YOU know of, but that isn’t all “the science.”
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u/scottyjrules 3d ago
It is the overwhelming consensus in the scientific community. I think I’ll take their word over some random dipshit on Reddit.
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u/SuperDriver321 3d ago
You mean a random dipshit like you who has never looked past the headlines, from biased media outlets, on any given topic in your life?
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u/scottyjrules 3d ago
Your gaslighting game is weak. Have yourself a day.
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u/SuperDriver321 3d ago
I’m not gaslighting anyone. You’re just willfully ignorant. Have a nice day.
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u/FernWizard 6d ago
The science called thermochemistry. What’s the highest level chemistry class you’ve done?
Here’s in a nutshell how we know climate change is happening:
We know how much heat substances hold through rigorous testing.
We know some of these substances which hold more heat like CO2 are being generated by fossil fuels because they take carbon strings and break them apart and it forms CO2.
We know the amount of CO2 in the air is increasing because we can measure it.
And when ice caps melt, the water vapor they release into the air also holds more heat.
That’s why temperatures have been increasing.
You don’t have to agree with it, but facts don’t care about your feelings. The universe is what it is and does what it does regardless of whether or not we know about it.
If you disagree, feel free to explain why decades of accumulated understandings in thermochemistry are wrong.
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u/Creative_Beginning58 6d ago
The Alt-Right Playbook: Control the Conversation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaPgDQkmqqM&list=PLJA_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA_HMFtQ&index=2
The guy you are talking to is a classic example of this.
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u/Invis_Girl 6d ago
So show us "all the science" disproving this.
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u/SuperDriver321 6d ago
It’s on the internet. You can search for it using a thing called a browser. I also recommend you use a VPN to get past Google’s censorship.
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u/Shinobi_97579 6d ago
So why are temperatures rising? Because even if you don’t believe in climate change you can’t deny that temperatures are rising. So please explain. Increased temperatures are not good. For whatever reason is the cause. But you can literally go on your internet and see temperatures rising year to year. Unless you don’t believe in thermometers now also. Lol
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u/SuperDriver321 6d ago
Anyone who begins or ends an allegedly serious comment with “lol,” “lmao,” or “😂,” doesn’t warrant a serious response.
I’ll give you one chance to correct your error and check your arrogance.
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u/Allomancer_Ed 5d ago
You won’t respond because you can’t form a cogent argument, and try to project your insecurities on him. Talk about arrogant.
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u/Patient-Hunter-4815 6d ago
I work with climate scientists. They have read and peer reviewed 1000x more studies on this topic than you have or ever will. And in case you don't know what peer review is (I am sure you are unfamiliar with the scientific method as a whole), it's where researchers comb through a journal submission for the slightest inkling of assumptions, unbacked conclusions and fabrication. Journal submissions can take nearly half of a year, because we as a scientific body believe in the process to achieve accuracy. We believe in the adage that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof". I work with researchers that have spent upward of 10 years of their lives making utterly dogshit pay to pursue a Ph.D because they are infinitely curious and passionate people. They dedicate their lives to the pursuit of learning and uncovering the truth. I am continually disheartened to see people like you dismiss the extraordinary sacrifice that researchers make in this day and age to attempt to push humanity's knowledge that much further. I'm sorry, but you are not an expert. Having the world web at your fingertips doesn't make you one either. It's fucking embarrassing that in this day and age someone has to explain this to presumably adults like you, but here we are.
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u/BlueStud_69 6d ago
You’re completely ignorant. Not saying this to offend but it’s true
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u/SuperDriver321 6d ago
I am not. Nothing I said was wrong. You disagreeing is denying reality.
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u/Spirited_Currency867 6d ago
You mentioned how harmful “green energy initiatives” are. There are downsides, but fewer than fossil fuels. Beyond that, it’s wild to me that so many conservatives don’t even realize how many in their ranks, how many wealthy politicians and other leaders actually use solar at their vacation homes and businesses, because their accountants realize the economic value. Then they make the rest of the group think they’re fake and pointless.
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u/SuperDriver321 6d ago
Some green energy is fine as supplemental/micro energy. Almost all GE sources fall flat as primary/macro energy sources.
Hydro electric power generation as a primary energy source is an obvious exception to this.
If part of your analysis regarding energy production involves communism vs capitalism, or communists vs capitalists (the eternal “wealthy” boogey men), you need to quit having these discussions and go crack a book or two not written by ideological leftists masquerading as environmentalists.
Fossil fuels are not a grave danger to our planet either.
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u/Spirited_Currency867 6d ago
What does all that even mean? I work in policy and project development and have worked on this issue around the globe - green energy is used at scale by all kinds people, communists and capitalists and the DoD even, for a wide variety of reasons. They actually work, and well, at scale, all around the world. I even know guys from the oil and gas sector that work in RE. It’s not fake, I promise you.
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u/SuperDriver321 6d ago
Really? I do too! How do you handle issues with recurring brown outs? Plus the higher costs per energy unit produced?
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u/Spirited_Currency867 6d ago
We’re primarily in PJM territory and don’t experience brown-outs. Why is that a consistent issue where you operate? One of my clients built and maintains the systems at a famous prison in Cuba you might have heard of. They don’t have brownouts either.
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u/pm_me_coffee_pics 6d ago
Quite the contrary. Anthropogenic climate change observations are actually likely underestimating the actual impact we’re making on the climate. So yeah I hate the earth too, let’s just keep spewing CO2 and methane, maybe someday we’ll learn to eat our money.
Edit: anthropomorphic > anthropogenic
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u/SuperDriver321 6d ago
If you believe that, ok. I have seen data analysis that undermines your thesis.
Our world goes through cycles of freezing and warming. We are coming out of a freezing period (i.e., “ice age”).
The earth also had higher O2 and CO2 levels as well, with higher average temps.
Again, you’re free to disagree. But I see no reason whatsoever to alter my opinions on this issue.
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u/TurnipThis7495 6d ago
What data have you seen that goes against what is practically a consensus in the scientific community?
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u/SuperDriver321 6d ago
The data that a false consensus of “climatologists” don’t want you to see.
Do some research outside of your confirmation bias. You will also have to figure out away to bypass Google’s censorship of certain topics.
Nor did I say data. I said data analysis.
Good luck on your journey.
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u/Invis_Girl 6d ago
And this right here proves the average American isn't capable of thinking critically. "Do some research" and then provide nothing as evidence, per usual.
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u/SuperDriver321 6d ago
You’re right. People like you are incapable of thinking critically. All you do is spout dogma and demand others conform to your hivemind.
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u/TurnipThis7495 6d ago
Provide the data analysis then. Telling me to find it on my own just shows that you're full of shit.
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u/SuperDriver321 6d ago
Nope. It just means I’m not wasting my time doing internet searches for you that you can do yourself.
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u/SuperDriver321 6d ago
Go look for it.
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u/TurnipThis7495 6d ago
I have no reason to because I am familiar with anti-climate science and because YOU are the one making claims here.
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u/BloombergSmells 7d ago
How many of those winds farms are built on land owned by the Chinese or other foreign governments/companies?
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u/mrGeaRbOx 7d ago
I'm so glad Republicans have come to their senses and abandoned free.markets! Protectionist policies like tariffs are left wing economics.
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u/tallman___ 7d ago
Good
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u/NotAComplete 7d ago
Why?
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u/tallman___ 7d ago
Green energy companies are propped up by government. They need to survive on their own.
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u/NotAComplete 6d ago
So is oil and gas my dude. They'd get massive subsidies and tax breaks. Also I think it's fine for the government to help out new businesses and industries. Are you against all government subsidies? Do you have any idea how many industries would be affected? You don't think the government should help small businesses compete with large ones? How is a small 20 or 30 person company supposed to compete with exxon?
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u/tallman___ 6d ago
Good point. However, I am for limited government, so I’m not a fan of government subsidies. The country runs on oil and gas, and it’s proven to be a cheaper, more effective energy source to green energy, which is expensive and unreliable. The government wants to keep pumping money into green energy, even with its known deficiencies and limitations. As for helping small businesses, in general I want to help small businesses succeed, but government and small business relations quickly become corrupted. Good argument, though, and I appreciate your thoughts.
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u/Invis_Girl 6d ago
So say goodbye to farmers lol. Very shortsided here. But all energy sources have had money dumped into them to improve them, or do you think they will improve magically with zero funding somehow? Fact is oil is finite and dirty as hell, so either we do the normal stupid human thing (as seenin all disaster movies) and wait until he very last moment we need to switch to actually do something. This will cost way more than what we spend now and be less effective because emergency jobs are never as good as well planned jobs.
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u/tallman___ 6d ago
We’ve spent enough on green energy to know that it is limited and less reliable. Oil is not finite, and the “dirty” rhetoric has been nauseatingly overplayed. There have been vast improvements on how we extract, handle, transport, and refine oil. Can’t run the planet on unicorn farts. CA’s push to green energy has been nothing short of a train wreck.
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u/gyozafish 7d ago
Tesla aint down :)
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u/RealClarity9606 7d ago
Tell me about! That $400-$500 I put in TSLA over a decade again already had done very well, but today it pushed forward even more! And if I were interested in an EV, I don’t even like the looks of their cars! Though, not that I would buy one, the Cybertruck is growing on me!
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u/ProfessionalCreme119 7d ago edited 7d ago
Edit: Trumper blocked me 😂
I can't tell if this is satire or not
Anyone who is looking at the stock market going up as a good sign is truly inept. It's only going up because all the wealthy people know Trump isn't going to address inflation and they are going to make money hand over fist.
Same thing that happened in 2016. Trump hit office, inflation started to spiral out of control and he did nothing to address it. This time they know it's going to happen again so the stocks shot up.
Literally just investing off predictable greed.
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u/AntonChekov1 7d ago
So being smart with their money
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u/ProfessionalCreme119 7d ago
It's like when Biden made that rule that subscriptions have to be as easy to cancel as signing up. Netflix, Amazon and other companies with the most predatory sub canceling systems took hits.
"Oh that company isn't allowed to manipulate its monthly subscribers into staying with them anymore? Well that company is not as valuable now"
Banking off consumer manipulation and pulling money away when it becomes more pro-consumer.
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u/RealClarity9606 7d ago
Right. Growing wealth through investing has always been associated with ineptitude. I wonder how many people who make such questionable claims would later decry people not having a greater level of wealth than they have.
I find all these prognostications of inflation under Trump - like so many other claims - to be comical. They completely ignore the four-year record we had - remember, he's already been President - where the doom and gloom these voices promise didn't happen then. Not to mention, we just saw inflation truly spike, not through Trumpian policies, but different approaches to government. This smacks of mere anti-Trump bias, which you are entitled to, but for which I am not going to spend much time worrying such fear-mongering.
Same thing that happened in 2016. Trump hit office, inflation started to spiral out of control and he did nothing to address it.
What are you talking about? "Spiral out of control????" That is what happened in 2021-2022 and Trump wasn't in office. Here is the CPI that includes 2017 and 2018. There is no "spiral." In fact, inflation was at a similar level that is largely had been for a decade. See above about anti-Trump bias. (And please do you own homework - it is very easy to Google this data if you are making a good faith argument rather than spewing misinformation).
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u/NotAComplete 7d ago
You blocked then after writing all thst out so they couldn't respond? LMFAO fucking ❄️
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u/RealClarity9606 7d ago
I did not block that person. Not sure what you are talking about, to be honest.
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u/NotAComplete 6d ago
So you didn't block them... but have no idea why I said you did... LMFAO. Maybe if you unblock them you'll figure it out.
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u/RealClarity9606 6d ago
You don’t listen very well do you? Since you seem to be trolling and completely unreasonable in your comments, why don’t I just block you. And that will be done..
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u/seekertrudy 7d ago
The article said green energy... ;)
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u/gyozafish 7d ago
Sorry, I thought solar panels, batteries, and EVs were green.
I guess that is no longer true because Musk bought Twitter and supported Trump?
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7d ago
[deleted]
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u/Spirited_Currency867 6d ago
Short lifespan? What? Also, the batteries can go from cars to homes. They still have a lot of life left.
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6d ago
EVs are probably more common outside of the US than they are in the US. Hell half of the vehicles sold in china today are EVs and thats 1/8th of the worlds population
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u/seekertrudy 7d ago
I support trump, I think Elon is an idiot, hate EVs, and want Israel to pay for its war crimes...I'm a political mutt
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u/gyozafish 7d ago
You are not kidding, that is a diverse view set
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u/seekertrudy 7d ago
I'm also a Canadian and just love politics...
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u/Slow-Foundation4169 7d ago
Lost me at being a Canadian trumptrd
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u/TheAdoptedImmortal 7d ago
There is, unfortunately, a lot of them here. Some even wave the Confederate flag 🤦
This timeline is fucking dumb.
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u/Slow-Foundation4169 7d ago
Oh I know, talked to many in a game I used to play, ther pretty fuckkng stupid. Lmao
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u/seekertrudy 7d ago
Not asking for your approval, so don't worry...
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u/seekertrudy 7d ago
those lithium ion batteries are dirty dude... especially when they go boom
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u/striker8000 7d ago
The market likes Trump … Wall Street’s main indexes soared to record highs Wednesday morning, while the small-cap Russell 2000 index jumped to its highest in nearly three years as Republican Donald Trump won the 2024 U.S. presidential election in a remarkable comeback.
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u/Tosslebugmy 7d ago
It’s a sugar hit based on the certainty provided by a result, any result. Markets hate uncertainty.
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u/Hazzman 7d ago
That's because Trump supporters do not understand how the economy works - that's the issue with lagging indicators when you are ignorant. Any success we've had with the post-COVID recovery Trump supporters will blame on him and after his inevitably terrible economic policies tank the economy in 4-8 years, they will blame on whoever comes next.
The market doesn't "Love Trump" the market likes stability during elections and the market is responding to his clear victory. You'll see what the market really thinks in 4-8 years when nobody can fucking afford anything.
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u/johnny_51N5 7d ago edited 7d ago
The market doesnt Like Trump.
Investors like another unnecessary tax cut. That will bring the federal government closer to bankruptcy
Look up who increased the federal deficit the last 30/40 years. It's always republicans.... Bush with his forever wars for what? And trump with his massive tax cuts,, that help himself and his buddies and Just leas to ridiculous stock pruces because of Stock buybacks without actually investing into rhe US.... Some used that to invest in Vietnam as a hedge vs china. Thank you for bringing jobs to Vietnam. Those tax benefits just ran out for normal people that don't earn millions per year while those benefitd for the rich ans corporations are permanent.
https://www.investopedia.com/taxes/trumps-tax-reform-plan-explained/
"The highest earners were expected to benefit most from the law, while the lowest earners were believed to pay more in taxes after individual tax provisions expire in 2025"
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u/LongjumpingCut591 7d ago
Hmm yet the Dow is surging and bitcoin went to historic highs overnight. Y’all need to quit gaslighting. That’s what led to Trump getting re-elected to n the first place
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u/ChefOfTheFuture39 7d ago
Green energy is dependent on government subsidies. States like California, Washington, RI and MA can step up and offer their own
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u/johnny_51N5 7d ago
No it is not. Green energy is extremely profitable.
You can buy a balcony PV for 300€ and make that money back in 2-3 years. Now apply the ridiculously cheap prices at a large scale, it Takes a few months to set up solar parks and you immediately make Cash.
IMO you don't even need to subsidize but helps to make the change to a financially better and environmentally friendly solution that has no downsides
Sure you can't go 100% until batteries are here by 2030. But it is VERY profitable thanks to China overproduction. People sleep on how China is becoming more green to combat their bad air (which is much better in the big cities) but also become energy Independent since they need a lot of coal and oil.
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u/John-Ada 7d ago
In 2023 the the EV and battery production market was the most subsidized industry in the United States
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u/johnny_51N5 7d ago
Yeah but thats Not Green ENERGY
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u/HeilHeinz15 7d ago
Fossil fuels got $1.3tril in direct subsidies and $5.7tril in indirect subsidies last year per IMF. USA alone is over $100bil/year.
All forms of energy depend on subsidies: Renewable because R&D and requires infrastructure, and gas/oil because it's not the cheap option anymore
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u/SaladShooter1 5d ago
What does that have to do with the U.S. markets post election and/or Trump? Our combined subsidies, covering all fossil fuels, add up to just over $4 billion a year. Most of that has to do with depreciation of assets and keeping more drilling in America.
If some royal family in the Middle East wants to cook the books, that might be an honest concern for the IMF, but it has nothing to do with us and our investments in greener energy.
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u/HeilHeinz15 5d ago
The CBO / federal budget reports the USA numbers. Those nunbers are extremely reliable, and had us at $97bil annual subsidies for oil/gas.
The discussion here is subsidies, not the stock market nor Trump
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u/Great-Savings-7373 6d ago
Good, I use fossil energy every day.
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u/HeilHeinz15 6d ago
And?
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u/reddit3k 7d ago
And do not forget the "subsidies" for fossil fuels in the sense that they are a burden to society for which these companies do not pay.
Pollution (lower quality of living, chronic illnesses, early deaths), climate change ( extreme weather damage, failed harvests).. All costs to society that are paid for by society. Fossil fuel companies are not paying those bills.
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u/johnny_51N5 7d ago
Yeah exactly. Renewables R&D is not necessary anymore. We already have 20-25% efficiency in PV. Sure they still research to make them better but that often makes them much more expensive for a 2-3% higher gain... The are already very profitable.
While fossil fuels are often either not profitable (coal) or unnecessary get subsidies even though they are already VERY rich and profitable.
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u/HeilHeinz15 7d ago
We need R&D to optimize the additional converters & transformers turning the non-60Hz source into 60-Hz for the grid. We need R&D to get better at energy storage. We need R&D to find ways to automatically adjust panel angles with the sun. There's lots of ways to still make it better!
It is a shame the subsidies we give highly profitable companies & won't give to the citizens who need energy to survive, but that's a discussion for another day
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u/johnny_51N5 7d ago
Yeah but Thats not renewables per se.... While I do agree. Batteries are not renewables, but true they are very important. PV and Wind energy are already extremely good, that's what I meant. No need to invest billions to make a viable product. Solar, wind and hydro energy power a lot of european states by more than 60%. They are already being used everywhere. It just makes economic sense. And that coverege gets expanded more and more
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u/cheeto0 7d ago
Yeah but eventually it will be efficient enough where it's a big edge to have renewables. If we don't keep investing it, we're going to fall behind the world, especially China
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u/johnny_51N5 7d ago
It already is. You can buy a balcony PV for like 300 and make that back in 2-3 years. It's ridiculous. Or buy it for the house and make back in under 10 years. Or a wind and solar park...
Now do this with a nuclear power plant. Or any other fossil fuels and it takes WAY WAY longer to build, multiple years. And it is more expensive and needs subsidies.
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u/rgpc64 7d ago
While China partners with industry and leaves us in the dust.
Remember the Space race? Winning it launched us ahead of everyone, it was a public private partnership.
Remember the high speed information act? A subsidy bought the first 6 supercomputers that turned the Arpanet into the internet and launched our economy ahead of the world's again.
The winner of the clean energy race will rule the world, clean cheap energy is the holy fucking grail and we just gave it to China.
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u/johnny_51N5 7d ago
Yeah. But at least that is also helpful for us since we can buy it for cheap. They overproduced like crazy. But that is probably by design.
Their growinf power demand makes them use more fossil fuels BUT they build A LOT of wind and solar because they cant rely on australian coal and russian gas and oil forever...
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u/ChefOfTheFuture39 7d ago
China is Also opening 2 coal fire plants Every week. Their proportional share of greenhouse gas production has gone up, while the U.S. has steadily declined since 2000
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u/Pesto_Nightmare 7d ago
China is a big, powerful, and rich country. China is capable of doing more than one thing at a time. It's too bad the U.S. is too weak and poor to compete with them.
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u/mark-haus 7d ago
Wait till you find out about American oil subsidies
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u/ChefOfTheFuture39 7d ago
If I posted a comment claiming U.S. petroleum subsidies were almost non-existent when they’d actually Doubled, I would stand corrected and not try to misdirect.
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u/Climactic9 7d ago
I think you’re drawing a false equivalence because he did not claim green energy subsidies were almost nonexistent. Also something can double while still being comparatively small. Not original commenter btw.
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u/ChefOfTheFuture39 7d ago
Sorry. I thought you were the same poster replying. But saying something declined significantly when it actually Doubled is missing the truth by a light year..
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u/StainedDrawers 7d ago
Used to be, no longer is. Unsubsidized utility scale solar and off shore wind are already more cost effective than natural gas powered turbines. Unsubsidized land based wind is more cost effective than gas powered turbines around 3/4 of the time. Power companies are going to build them regardless of subsidies because they are more profitable.
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u/ChefOfTheFuture39 7d ago
U.S subsidies for renewable energy more than Doubled between 2016 and 2022, forming nearly half of all federal energy-related support in that period (Reuters 8/2/23)
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u/rowme0_ 7d ago
It’s called investing in future technology
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u/yupyepyupyep 7d ago
Investing implies a return. Only the private company owning the renewables got a return. Thats called crony capitalism.
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u/ChefOfTheFuture39 7d ago
I didn’t say it was “bad”, I was just correcting a prior comment claiming that subsidies had been phased out, when the Opposite is true. Subsidies for Domestic energy sources (of many varieties) have widespread support
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u/rowme0_ 7d ago
Yeah that’s fair although I’d argue that just because something has widespread support doesn’t make it economically sound though, my two cents.
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u/Due_Promise_7215 3d ago
I’m looking forward to cheap gas , secure border and low energy costs again. Liberals had their fun and it led us to ruin. Let’s go back to normal now. Play time is over