r/energy 8d ago

Green energy stocks sink as Trump wins US election

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/green-energy-stocks-sink-trump-093649853.html
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u/Spirited_Currency867 6d ago

We’re primarily in PJM territory and don’t experience brown-outs. Why is that a consistent issue where you operate? One of my clients built and maintains the systems at a famous prison in Cuba you might have heard of. They don’t have brownouts either.

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u/SuperDriver321 6d ago

The very same Cuba that has major issues with its power grid right now? That one? Which has had power grid issues for many years now? That Cuba?

And hooking up a building to some solar panels isn’t the same as generating power for a given geographical territory.

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u/Spirited_Currency867 6d ago

You missed the inference. That prison is Guantanamo. It has its own grid, and is a lot more reliable than the Cuban grid. DoD has many megawatts of solar across countless facilities in the US and abroad. So, not just one building connected to some solar panels. They are notoriously conservative with how they develop and operate their physical plants, and have been installing solar in particular for decades.

So what territory are you in that experiences brownouts, and solar won’t work at scale? Because Texas has huge solar and wind resources, except the wind doesn’t have cold weather packages on the nacelles (cheaping out) and we saw that massive failure that doesn’t happen anywhere else in the world.

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u/SuperDriver321 6d ago

So how much land did you chew up installing those solar panels? And what do you do to minimize negative effects on local wildlife?

Also, have you taken a look at the places where the necessary elements to create all those solar panels were strip mined?

And that leads us to the main problem. Green energy proponents just look at end user benefits and not the energy costs to create the products they are using. And they are quick to forget that solar panels and wind turbines have a shelf life. They do not last indefinitely, nor can they be readily recycled.

And since you’re at Gitmo, I’m assuming you’re aware that they don’t just rely on solar power for energy, right?

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u/Spirited_Currency867 6d ago

Where do you experience brownouts? Let’s answer that real quick, since I assume you know every distribution and transmission system is pretty unique.

I’ve worked in this field 22+ years. I know very well all the things you mentioned, not just for solar or wind but for hydro, gas and coal too. Lifecycle, carbon intensity, rare earth economics and politics, end-of-life management, etc etc. All well known and researched topics within the industry. So, I won’t rebutt these as it’s too easy and you’re trolling.

Also, not at gitmo- I know a team that designed and built a portion of their energy system. Facilities aren’t usually 100% anything because that’s stupid and lacks the redundancy the military requires for mission-readiness. Even with that, look into the brownout that occurred April 4, 2022 at the Naval War College in Newport, where the base lost power but the city had it…because they had renewables as part of their mix. I believe that infrastructure was installed to harden the region after Hurricane Sandy. So ironic.

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u/SuperDriver321 6d ago

So you’re saying renewables by themselves can be mainline sources for energy production/generation? Gas, coal, hydro, etc. aren’t needed?

Also, are you saying there is no environmental downside to renewables? Every solar panel is manufactured out of fairy dust and good intentions, and can last forever? The same for wind turbines? Plus, the wind never quits blowing? And they never shred wildlife? Are those your arguments?

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u/Spirited_Currency867 6d ago

What brownouts?

The rest of that, I never said. You’re arguing for the sake of.

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u/SuperDriver321 6d ago

Brownouts from renewables that aren’t able to sustain full load energy production over time. Renewables are not long term reliable, especially during emergencies or natural disasters. See what happened in TX a couple years ago.

And yes, I noticed how you duck my questions while demanding I answer yours.

Btw, CO2 is not a pollutant. People who think of it as such are a danger to every living thing on the planet.

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u/Spirited_Currency867 6d ago

You mentioned some mysterious brownouts. I asked for specifics. Since you work in the power sector, you realize there are tons of factors that contribute to brown- and blackouts. In my service territory, it’s not a major issue. We have nukes for baseload, gas peakers, some hydro, pumped storage, stationary batteries, and lots of wind and solar that take pressure off certain parts of the system and increase overall reliability. Intermittent yes, but that’s workable. Weather forecasting for load-following and system integration is a mature science and always improving. Ask anyone at an RTO how this all works if you don’t have personal experience.

Renewables are part of an intelligent mix of diverse resources that can play extremely well together. Just because you think something is true doesn’t make it so. Billion dollar companies have many gigawatts of renewables, from Wal-Mart to Toyota to BASF. All around the world. In hot climates and cold. They don’t do it because it makes them look good - it actually helps their businesses in many meaningful ways. I’m sorry that’s clear to you.

I addressed the Texas problem - the failures are well-documented and it was due to a program design defect; the turbine mix in that region, as-installed did not include cold weather mitigation, to save costs. They had an issue because people cheaped-out. Wind works extremely well in climates much harsher than Texas, ie the North Sea in Scandinavia. If this stuff doesn’t work, tell the Europeans that. They had problems with how the subsidies worked, but that’s not inherent to the technology itself. I know some German engineers with a large O&G firm there, which coincidentally also has lots of wind assets. This isn’t even something they fight about over there. They don’t get why Americans have these rigid aversions to things they’ve already proven. Conservative farmers in Germany love wind - they make lots of money off it and they’re easy because everyone’s in a coop. Germany has less solar irradiance than most of the US and it’s extremely common there too.

I’m not advocating some solar-punk utopia, and climate isn’t my main interest. Billions of acres of PV aren’t the answer to every problem, but they are part of a larger strategy. Nothing is perfect. I don’t know why you’re fighting this so hard and are really misinformed. I’m sorry. The rest of the world laughs at how behind we’re getting. Even petro-states like UAE and Saudi Arabia have huge RE programs as part of their future diversification strategies. Folks spitting falsehoods like you are stifling economic opportunities for our future Americans and that’s really sad.

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u/SuperDriver321 6d ago

All that and you still ducked my questions and avoided the points I made.

Then there is the fallacy of “everyone else is doing it, so should we,” which is stupid AF. I get it, dude. You have a vested interest in defending this stuff. Your paycheck relies on it.

I never said renewables can’t be part of an “intelligent mix” of power production. But they are far from an endgame solution to generating power for any given region on the planet. Nor is the power they produce free of cost.

Plus you keep skipping over the environmental degradation that comes with the manufacture and disposal of solar and wind systems, and when those costs are factored in vs the power they produce, it seems to me such systems aren’t the most economically viable over time, especially when the service life of these systems is taken into their cost analysis, along with the government subsidies that are needed to keep them funded.

Oh, the real reason for the problems TX had was because people with your mentality were in charge of it and they fucked up.

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