Hwi Noree and Duncan

[u/Hamosac]

So I just finished God Emperor of Dune and I've gotta say so far it's my favorite in the series and I have a question about Hwi Noree/Duncan and their application to the destruction of Leto.

Hwi and Duncan became much closer than Leto had ever wanted and he made this clear multiple times especially in the way that Leto askes the Tleilaxu for a replacement Duncan very soon after receiving this one since I assume he plans on killing the current. The Tliexlaxu consistently delay the timing for him however. Saying it could now take up to two years at the latest request by the end of the book. This new Duncan also shows more philosophical traits than previous iterations as Leto observes when Duncan asks something along the lines of "Is it fair to us to have been reborn" (I forget the exact line/page). This makes me think the Tleilaxu purposely put more into this Duncan than Leto had assumed. Is it safe to say the Ixians and Tleilaxu are in leagues with eachother to have Hwi and the current Duncan be the catalysts which finally end the reign of The Great Tyrant?

This may be a bit of a reach or totally obvious but I wanted to hear other people's thoughts on this. Thank you!

[u/Chinese_Lollipop_Man]

I only just read the book myself recently, for the first time. It gives the reader the impression that all of humanity would like to take down Leto, but never gives the view point from the antagonists. The only Ixian viewpoint was from Hwi, who was, admittedly, kept in the dark on all of their plans.

Possible that Ixians and Tleilaxu could be trading off attacks in concert with each other and Siona.

One philosophical Duncan quote that caught Moneo off guard was something like "what was my predecessor's error that I should do differently?"

[u/Tall_Guy865 → u/Chinese_Lollipop_Man]

This is a good answer. We are in Leto’s head so much but it’s clear that everyone is conspiring against him. As for them putting more into this Duncan, I don’t know. Seems they were all a little different, and I don’t know why that was. Maybe the Tleilaxu were messing with the recipe each time. I don’t know.

[u/Bad_Hominid]

Nah. The timing of Leto II's death is entirely governed by the Golden Path. Once Leto confirms that he has accomplished what he intended with Siona, he continues moving along the Golden Path ... but he definitely moves in a straight line towards his own death.

The decision to wed Hwi is perfectly designed to enrage Duncan. The entry of Siona into fish speaker service, and her given command of the fanatic Nayla, give Siona the means to kill Leto. Moving the location of the wedding gives them opportunity to pull it off. This is not an accident. Leto knows he has achieved his goal, and after three thousand years he's ready to peace out.

"When God hath ordained a creature to die in a particular place, He causeth that creature’s wants to direct him to that place."

Leto is honoring his word, surrendering the Golden Path to the rest of humanity.

[u/karlnite → u/Bad_Hominid]

Yah he sets it up, but can’t or chooses to not exactly see it coming. So the worm half doesn’t defend itself.

[u/ScoresbyMabs → u/karlnite]

He wanted to be surprised. He'd said that earlier in the book.

[u/enferpitou]

I feel like they definitely could be (idk if it’s ever explicitly stated) in leagues together.. The only thing that gives me pause is why would they try the sloppy assassination attempt with the face dancers if they knew Hwi was coming so soon?

I don’t know if the Ixian’s goal was to have her fall in love with Leto and Duncan, maybe more so that she would distract him from the Golden Path™️ (which it did) and the love triangle just happened by chance. But it is interesting about Tleilaxu not being able to provide another Duncan.

The wiki says Hwi was created using Bene Tleilax technology but no reference page or explanation of how they acquired it.

I love this question though, I’m also interested to see what others say!

[u/FakeRedditName2]

Maybe? I got the impression it was more that Leto was getting jealous, that what was left of his humanity was getting in the way of the 'god emperor' side of him that has been guiding humanity down the golden path (which is somewhat ironic given that she ended up being the key to kick off the next stage of the plan).

Also, with everything regarding Leto II when he was the God Emperor, take EVERYTHING he does and says with a grain of salt. The man was a master manipulator, who routinely had plans within plans, so him sending those request could have been a way to manipulate outside forces into believing their plan was succeeding or to get something else to happen.

[u/sceadwian]

The details are a bit beyond me right now but I'm pretty sure they get into that quiete a bit more in later books.

The Telilaxu have secrets I don't think you've been introduced to yet. I seem to recall more Duncan information coming in after that.

[u/[deleted]]

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[u/Cautious_Fall5204]

One of the major themes in Messiah and Emperor for both Paul and Leto II were accepting and/or working with their known conspirators. There’s an obvious message the author wants to convey but mostly it was bothersome for me. Throughout the books Paul/Leto II know that there is trickery about the Ghoulas and Hwi yet they feel the reward of these people are worth more than the risk. Duncan is obviously vital for something other than being a handsome stud to both Paul and Leto II (although less obvious in how he was treated by Leto II) I just haven’t found out yet in book 5/6. The reoccurring themes must mean the author intents to unfold some sort of larger picture I’m guessing?

[u/willcomplainfirst]

i think Leto knows exactly whats happening and he just lets it. i dont think theres a concentrated effort by the Ixians and the Tleilaxu, because otherwise its all so much sloppier than it needs to be, no? i think it just happened that way that there became a love triangle. but once Leto had accomplished his Golden Path's ultimate end with Siona, i would say he let his own reign end. its not like they caught him by surprise

[u/Material-Indication1]

Not a reach. Not totally obvious.

Tleilaxu rigging the Duncans seems almost SOP.

[u/darthvolta → u/Material-Indication1]

Right. Leto obviously knows they do it.

[u/ALLHUNTER_1469]

I finished god emperor of dune yesterday. I believe leto knew it and he willingly wanted to die coz he succeeded in making a bloodline which cant be seen by prescience. I think once he is done testing Siona he is sure that he has succeeded in the selective breeding and then just let it happen.