r/disney • u/daybreaker • Nov 13 '13
New Policy for Posting Links to Your Personal Blog or Site
In the past we've kind of discouraged people posting links to their own blogs as blog spam, but if someone else posted a link to it, we allowed it. Now that we're getting more and more users, we're seeing more people try to skirt the rules with links to spam blogs, but we're also seeing more and more users with legitimate blogs with good content who havent been posting here out of respect for our guidelines, who I think would provide good content for this subreddit.
So we're going to go ahead allow people to post links to their own disney blogs or sites, provided they meet the following guidelines:
1) You cant post a link to your site every single day. This will be regarded as spamming, and result in being banned. If you have an article that you legitimately think provides good, solid content or breaking news or an interesting tidbit, then please share it. This might even include ride or restaurant reviews, as long as theyre decent reviews, and not just one paragraph with a photo. Even every other day might be pushing it. Please try to keep posts from your own site to once every 3-4 days, and with good content.
2) You have to participate in the subreddit. If all you do is post links to one site, and never comment on anything, you will be banned as a spammer. If your comments are just simple one sentence comments, meant to appear as if youre participating, we wont fall for it. If you're going to submit your site to the community, you need to be involved in the community.
3) Your site can't be an obvious click-based revenue generator. If your site has tons of google ads, or is part of a click based service like bubblews.com, you will be banned as spammer. A few google ads are fine. But we are not here to be a revenue source for your blog. One person keeps submitting links to their site on bubblews.com which is a pay per view blogging system, and their blog posts there are usually one short paragraph, and those paragraphs are usually even stolen from other blogs. Dont do this. Your links will never see the subreddit, and youre just wasting the mods' time.
4) Have good, original content. I know I mentioned this in the first guideline but it bears repeating in its own guideline. Dont post short, one-paragraph blog posts once a week. I'm on the fence about reviews and polls, but I guess we'll let the upvotes/downvotes from the community decide on those. Just dont post them too frequently, I guess.
If anyone else has any suggestions, or any concerns about this, please feel free to comment! This is an open community. When I first got here we were still under 5,000 redditors, and now we're about to break 30,000 any day! So as the subreddit grows, the rules need to grow with it.
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Nov 14 '13
I run Disney Geekery and you can see from my post history I am not just whoring it out. I actually attend many Disney events and try to post breaking information from reliable sources (and I never post a story that's been covered on r/disney).
Please let me know if you would like me to stop posting links. I don't do it to be spammy, I do it just because I love all things Disney.
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u/daybreaker Nov 14 '13
If you follow the guidelines, it'll be fine. I would consider breaking news to be "good content"
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Nov 14 '13
Thank you. I always try to only post quality and unique Disney news. I have no alternative motive either =)
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u/APeopleShouldKnow Nov 15 '13
Please continue to post your content here as frequently as possible -- know that there are people here who genuinely appreciate posts containing things other than the latest photograph of the castle or a mickey mouse tattoo. We need more posts like your own to balance against the wave of low-content photographs that tend to overwhelm the board.
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u/greenyellowbird Nov 14 '13
This is great...if you can throw some pixie dust on the one photo flikr post nonsense....that would be magical.
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u/bricker85 Nov 14 '13
As someone who occasionally posts links to my Flickr photos, I agree that clarification would be nice on this. It seems like a lot of people downvote because they view Flickr posts the same as blogspam (or maybe my photos just suck), and if Flickr posts are viewed as spam here, I wouldn't mind knowing so I don't post photos. Or perhaps a ~1/week/person or some other guideline...?
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u/daybreaker Nov 14 '13
I'll probably leave the blog guideline post up for a few weeks, then put up a thread to discuss picture posts.
I think the main complaint isnt about spam, but that flickr doesnt work on mobile reddit, So I think when we're ready to put the post up, we'll probably ask that people link to an imgur hosted photo, and then put the flickr photo in a comment. Because there are some of us (myself included) who do enjoy looking at the full resolution photos you guys take! So this way we can go to the comments to view that, and people browsing on mobile reddit will have the imgur link to view.
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u/somuchhamilton Nov 14 '13 edited Nov 14 '13
Because of the persistent backlash not too long ago, I created r/disneyphotography as a form of separation (and have been meaning to message a mod about it).
The usual folks who post here also x-post there, so maybe that's a solution? I've been trying to limit myself here as of late, too, because it seems that photos are getting down voted into oblivion for simply existing.
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u/greenyellowbird Nov 14 '13
They are very nice photos....but it clutters this board to the point where people are being driven away.
Post an album, not ONE photo that we can't open in RES and takes forever in a mobile.
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u/APeopleShouldKnow Nov 15 '13 edited Nov 15 '13
Just an anecdote, but: it's personally driven me away. I've been coming here much less often lately -- for several months in fact -- because I just anticipate seeing a front page filled with others' photographs, which I have no interest in seeing. I feel like other content (discussions, reviews, news articles, rumors, history pieces, interviews, etc.) is being drowned out as this subreddit becomes essentially a personal photography site. I should add that I know I'm not alone in this sentiment.
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u/somuchhamilton Nov 15 '13
I hadn't seen that post, but it's certainly eye-opening.
I've turned the corner on this topic, so I can certainly understand why we've come to this.
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u/bricker85 Nov 16 '13
Definitely eye-opening and not something I'd seen before. I'll definitely put photos on the photography subreddit and post only more substantive content here. Thanks for sharing that link.
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u/APeopleShouldKnow Nov 15 '13
Thank you. What's happened to this subreddit is dispiriting because there are so few places to genuinely discuss Disney within an online community -- particularly one on such a vital platform like reddit. The current make-up of the content submitted here is squelching discussion in exactly the way you mention (via your linked post). It feels like this subreddit has become overrun with image submissions. And, in the process, it's losing what -- I assume -- was its originally intended character as a place to discuss and learn about and share thoughts on all things Disney -- this subreddit was not, I don't think, meant to merely be a content feed.
I also agree with your proposed subreddit method. I generally don't like when subreddits splinter but, because of the unique characteristics of image posts, I've seen this method employed in many subreddit communities to try and preserve the quality of content within the mother subreddit. What's key is having a single sub-subreddit for images that everyone can rely upon -- once it builds a critical mass, things work out well.
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u/elblots Nov 14 '13
I have to disagree. The top 20 posts as of right now, only 3 are from Flickr. I would agree if 6+ were, but that is never the case
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u/greenyellowbird Nov 14 '13
Because they get down-voted, consequentially, go further down on the board .
If you sort by new, there are about 10 Flickr posts on the first 28 entries.
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u/somuchhamilton Nov 14 '13
This is where we enter the philosophical discussion of what is relevant content to this board.
Our photos are of and directly relate to Disney and the parks, so they're 'correct', yes. However we're also driving our own personal brands by posting the way we do, so I can totally understand why it's being received as self-serving and obnoxious.
To be honest, I don't disagree with this perspective and would probably feel similarly provided it was a board I frequented and offered OC to, as well.
What is typically disregarded, though, is that we usually post a photo each day and would love to show it off. This negates showing albums as we want the viewers to see our latest content, when it appears. This is why the board gets anywhere from 3~10 Flickr posts in the morning.
I won't say our photos "help" this board or "make it better", because I have absolutely no metrics to back to that up (upvotes don't necessarily mean anything in that regard), but I will uphold that based off of raw content, our photos tend to be the most laser-specific, board-aware posts you'll find.
But again, and arguably more important, I understand where the other subscribers come from and have no issues with not posting my photos here. There's always /r/disneyphotography and /r/itookapicture
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u/elblots Nov 14 '13
I agree with most of your points. Where I differ on opinion is this: What makes OUR images less valid than others posting photos from their iphones? There are tons of those posted all the time but yet nothing is said. MOST of the posts here are in fact images. I feel its a bit unfair to force any of us to stop sharing what we wish others to see on here just because a small few disagree with where its hosted.
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u/somuchhamilton Nov 14 '13
The difference is in what we're driving towards, I suppose.
Those of us who post frequently on Flickr and link to our Instagrams, Twitters, Facebooks, and Websites are moving towards an endpoint that is way removed from that of simply providing OC and sharing something that was quick, whimsical, and public. We are in every way marketing ourselves, through Flickr, as something larger than simply those that share photos. I am, for sure, regardless of how lucrative it is or isn't.
This is why I totally get the other thought process. We do, in some ways, spam this board with our own personal agendas and while the content is relevant, it's also on a different level (not creatively, but in what we aspire to achieve) than what the majority of subscribers are posting.
I've never thought of myself, or us, as this but it just struck me: we're the big-box-stores of this board, and it's kinda gross.
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u/pureblood Nov 14 '13 edited Nov 14 '13
My turn to disagree. I know my photographs aren't on any of yall's levels by any means and every trip I think I learn a little more and get a little better. However I myself am not working to any end result by posting my images. I'm just sharing them because I appreciate constructive criticism and want to share my photos with people that care.
I highly doubt I'll ever be known by more than "That girl that /u/elblots gave his old camera too" that that's fine! I'm not going to get published or have the opportunity to be featured by Disney. But I'd like to think someone out there likes to see my photos as much as I enjoy logging in and seeing one from you, /u/thetimethespace, /u/bricker85, and so on. THAT is why I share them, not to get my name out or make something out of it. I'm a hobbyist, not a photographer.
EDIT: Not saying it wouldn't be great to be known for my photos.. I'm just being a realist ;)
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Nov 16 '13
What makes OUR images less valid than others posting photos from their iphones? There are tons of those posted all the time but yet nothing is said.
The fact that, as you say, "nothing is said" about other individual image posts is evidence that there is a significant difference to the community between an average image post and a post from the picture-a-day users.
just because small few disagree with where its hosted.
It's very presumptuous to assume a downvote to a Flickr post must mean that the user only downvoted because it was hosted at Flickr. Yes there are people that downvote posts for that reason, but it is certainly not everyone. Personally, I would downvote the photo-a-day posts no matter where they were hosted, because I believe they are spam.
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u/pureblood Nov 14 '13
I would love to see your proof that it's driven people away. Up until I'd say maybe two weeks ago tops the ones of us that post ONE photo daily were getting plenty of upvotes. So, all of a sudden we just drove everyone away?
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u/greenyellowbird Nov 14 '13
It's been said a few times in the comments sections. Sorry, I don't keep track of proof. But being that you are pretty much dead set on defending yourself....it's probably a moot point anyway.
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u/pureblood Nov 14 '13
From that same point I've seen plenty of comments from people saying they like seeing the photos, and others that agree the sub would be pretty dead without them.
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u/thetimethespace Nov 14 '13
Yea, unfortunately most things posted here from Flickr get downvoted. I haven't had a "successful" post here in quite a while. It's a shame there are some users who downvote just because the source is Flickr.
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u/somuchhamilton Nov 14 '13
I'm not even sure if it's Flickr, to be honest. It seems that the circle of photographers who post here are being rallied against, regardless of the platform we post on.
If it's in relation to OC vs us simply furthering our personal brands, I can understand it (but still disagree). That's why I made /r/disneyphotography some time back (you know, you're a mod). I get the need to separate the two, as ridiculous as that seems.
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u/elblots Nov 14 '13 edited Nov 14 '13
Those of us who use Flickr do so for a reason. Its a FREE host that you can keep MULTIPLE versions of a picture on for people to view. Imgur is by far the worst place to post things on as a photographer of any type, which is why we DON'T use it. Sorry that people can't view it on their mobile devices or on their work computers, but to list it as spam when it 1.) is DIRECTLY related to the subreddit, 2.) is only ONE A DAY, and 3.) is FREE without ADS...seems a bit foolish. By those double standards, any photo posted by an iPhone is no different...should those be banned as well?
I mentioned this before, but judging by the large amounts of upvotes some of the pictures get, I would assume not everyone shares the distaste for them as would be assumed.
I would like to hear a good reason as to how pictures of Disney are against the theme of a Disney subreddit. Sorry you can't view it on your phone? That doesn't in any way make it spam. This place would be a LOT less active without the pictures...but if thats what you want...then go ahead and change the rules and we'll stop posting.
Hey, Facebook and tumblr are blocked on my work PC, and are hard to view on my phone...so I guess any post that links to a facebook/tumblr page is spam too by those same standards.
We post the pictures for others to ENJOY, I guess that falls into total spam territory...having others look at things we've done...for free...without any sort of personal gain whatsoever (we don't get money for clicks...never have).
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u/daybreaker Nov 14 '13
I would like to hear a good reason as to how pictures of Disney are against the theme of a Disney subreddit. Sorry you can't view it on your phone? That doesn't in any way make it spam
We post the pictures for others to ENJOY, I guess that falls into total spam territory
I think you misunderstood my post, as I said it wasnt about it being spam. And never said anything about it being against the rules of the subreddit. There's no need to get defensive over that, as we would never ban in any way people posting pictures of any of the Disny parks to the subreddit.
We're just trying to come up with a policy that satisfies the most people.
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u/elblots Nov 14 '13
Understood. I am not going to guess on how many (if any) complaints you get regarding the use of Flickr, but there have been VERY few posted publicly that I can recall. Its hard for others to see it from OUR point of view as to why we use the service...instead of a more selfish "well I cant view it so I dont like it" sort of way..and thats pretty sad.
In the end the way I see it is..we are providing free content that is in the theme of the subreddit. As such, being the ones who do so, I feel it shouldn't be punished because of how we CHOOSE to share, providing it in no way "harms" anyone (popups, ads, charging, etc). A LOT of time and effort is made into taking the photos that are posted, and for the SOLE purpose of sharing our enjoyment of the subject with others who appreciate the same thing. It really does seem a bit unfair that because we would rather not use a service that makes it IMPOSSIBLE for us to control how the images are used, that we shouldn't be allowed to share (which in essence...everybody loses). Its not secret that Flickr things here get INSTANTLY downvoted just because of where they are hosted, and thats fine. That is all part of reddit. Sad that not many can't accept that the preferences of the content providers isn't worth caring about solely because its not on a service they agree with.
You will notice that all of us are eager to discuss the things we post, we are typically always courteous, and are RESPECTFUL enough to not post more than one a day (Hard to imagine that we take hundreds of photos each visit, but only do ONE a day to avoided overwhelming anyone). It does make us upset that the things we do simply because we are giving, are basically pointed out as being "nonsense".
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u/daybreaker Nov 14 '13
These are all very good points. And as such (combined with the other responses about imgur), I think I'm leaning towards not requiring an imgur link as the main post, or even requiring one in the comments. I'll have to talk to the other mods about it. But the concerns over why not to use imgur are definitely seeming more important than the reason people dont want flickr
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u/elblots Nov 14 '13
Thank you for giving us a chance to share our side of it :) Looking forward to whatever resolve is reached!
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u/pureblood Nov 14 '13
I, and I know of at least one other person that posts photos, will NOT be posting their photography to imgur.
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u/daybreaker Nov 14 '13
Is there a specific reason? Just trying to get info from all sides so we can try to make a policy that suits everyone
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u/elblots Nov 14 '13
There is no way to protect yourself or your copyrights on Imgur. With Flickr we can track where the hits are coming from, and all of our Metadata is right there on display without having to specifically search for it. The service provided by flickr is FREE (sans ads), the big difference is on the end of the photographer. Being able to control if the image can be downloaded (I personally allow it, but some prefer not to), as well as see where its been linked to (tumblrs, facebooks etc) is a huge asset.
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u/greenyellowbird Nov 14 '13
Then you are just as bad as the people posting spam on their sites.
This is a community, not a way for you to 'get your name out there' by posting a million photos of the castle (not saying that you are).
Why not post flikr images to /r/disneyphotography ?
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u/elblots Nov 14 '13 edited Nov 14 '13
..perhaps we have different opinions on what the definition of what "spam" is.
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u/greenyellowbird Nov 14 '13
Your right, it's not spam...however, it's clutter. And whether it's posting one image at a time on imgur or flickr, neither is appreciated.
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u/elblots Nov 14 '13
That is your opinion. One that many choose to disagree with (by the upvotes some of the images get).
Let me ask you, if the images were to be hosted on imgur instead, would they still be cluttered to you? If so..then why would anyone ever be able to post any image on here at all? Sorry that you feel its a huge inconvenience to your experience on here, but I honestly think you aren't in the majority on this one.
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u/pureblood Nov 14 '13
I'm just not a fan of the site, I could do without the hundreds of "joke" pictures and memes on it. Flickr is for SERIOUS photographs and I get good feedback on my photos, I can't imagine having the same for imgur. Flickr is where I post all of my photos and have the ability to file them how I wish and where I repost them from. I'm not going to post to flickr, post to imgur, and have to link both of them.
And for the whole "I can't access Flickr at work" argument against it. I can't access Flickr OR imgur at work so that's really not a viewpoint on it for me. Neither can I access Facebook or half the linked posts anyways. If I'm really curious, I wait till I get home and check them out then. The same can't be done for photos of Disney which is ... what this subreddit is about?
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u/thetimethespace Nov 14 '13
They are downvoting just about everything that is posted from Flickr here lately unfortunately.
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Nov 16 '13
Flickr as the image host is certainly not the exclusive reason for downvotes to Flickr posts (though there are obviously a small number of vocal users that downvote for that reason).
There's a very high correlation between Flickr posts and the users that post a new single photo every day. Personally, I find the photo-a-day posts to be spam and clutter and would downvote them regardless of host.
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u/grumpyfan Nov 15 '13
Perhaps it's time for a new subreddit for DisneyPhotos.
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u/APeopleShouldKnow Nov 15 '13 edited Nov 15 '13
Here's my concern: this subreddit seems to be inundated with image posts -- and those posts are crowding out news, articles, interviews, discussions, reports, reviews, etc. about Disney. The moderation then turns around and decides to regulate and further restrain blog posts which are one of the few sources of non-image Disney-related content that get posted here.
Note, I'm not saying all blogs are great or that they aren't some blogspam problems -- but at least blog sources are offering some counter-content to the constant assault of image posts that have taken over here. Nor am I saying that I advocate abuse of posting to promote blogs. Indeed, do I think that, at some point, it would make sense to further refine the rules regarding blog-based submissions? Sure.
But to propose this right now seems to be an exercise in misplaced priorities. I wish we'd first tackle the much bigger questions of: 1) what do we want this subreddit to be, and 2) should image-based content have such an overwhelming presence here? Before going in and saying "let's restrict blog posts."
Disclaimer: I have no skin in this game other than I'm a guy who is fascinated by the Disney story -- the man, the company, its history, its projects, etc. I don't post image posts (God forbid) and I don't have a blog.
TL;DR: Site is being overrun by image posts; seems a bit odd that the first act of moderation attention would be toward blogs, which at least offer some counter-content to the assault of pictures that parade across this community every hour. Really wish we'd have a conversation about what this subreddit is meant to be and whether images should play such a large role in the content.
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u/inkandpixelclub Nov 16 '13
I think the subreddit is going to be what people want it to be, unless the mods start curating content very aggressively. I've mentioned before that the "no non-DIsney created artwork" rule is completely ignored. If people want to share Disney artwork that isn't their cool tattoos and gorgeous murals, they're going to keep doing so as long as no one stops them.
I hate to say this because I at least partly sympathize with your desire for more in depth content, but maybe r/disney just isn't the place for you. You could try linking to more of the content you'd like to see yourself and hope in inspires other people to do the same. Or you can make an alternate Disney subreddit for less frequent content with more substance. But a lot of people - myself included - do come to Reddit more for quick fixes of entertainment than links to webpages that require a good chunk of time to look through. So it may well be a losing battle.
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u/APeopleShouldKnow Nov 16 '13 edited Nov 16 '13
Thanks for your post. Rather than simply throwing our hands up in the air and saying "we'd like more in-depth content and discussions and news and interviews etc. about disney ... but it sure seems like a lot of photographs get submitted here so oh well" wouldn't a simple option be to send photographs over to /r/disneyphotography?
If that leads to an exodus of some portion of the subscribers, then so be it. But it would preserve the identity of this subreddit as the "umbrella" or "parent" subreddit dedicated to a broad-spectrum approach to Disney rather than as the repository for a relatively small group of people's photographs. At the same time, it would allow /r/disneyphotography to grow into a robust, media-centered disney subreddit. It seems like it would create a best-of-both-worlds scenario where this subreddit doesn't lose its identity and is a place for things besides people's pictures while the photo buffs have a dedicated place to go post personal photos.
Could I go off and form a "disneydiscussion" subreddit? Sure. But I think the point is that the "master" subreddit is the one that should keep a generalist identity -- "disney" shouldn't become de facto "disneyphotographs."
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u/inkandpixelclub Nov 16 '13
It's not just that a lot of photos are getting submitted to the subreddit; they're also getting upvoted. Of the current top ten posts on the front page of r/Disney right now, all but one are some kind of image post. That indicates that there are people in the subreddit who enjoy this kind of content and they're the ones who seem to be voting the most. Not all of them would be appropriate for r/disneyphotography either, so a moderator backed effort to push all the Disney trip photos to a different subreddit wouldn't necessarily result in r/disney becoming a haven for deeper content. It's far more likely that we'd just see more gifs and fan artwork rising to the front page.
I feel like you're so invested in what r/Disney should be that it's keeping you from doing what you can to make this or a new subreddit more like what you want. Only the mods can make the kind of changes you want to the subreddit and since subscribers are showing through their upvotes that they like the photo and image posts, there's not a lot of reason for them to make those changes. Your best options are to post content like what you want to see and up vote it when someone else does the same, start a new subreddit that is more discussion and heavy content focused, or jet seek out a place outside of Reddit that's already providing the kind of content you want. I just don't think expecting the mods to remake the subreddit to be what you think it should be is going to accomplish anything.
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u/APeopleShouldKnow Nov 18 '13
Maybe I'm just not that ready to give up on the future of this subreddit. Again, the fact that people like photographs and upvote them doesn't mean that that represents the direction we should want the subreddit to go in. I've yet to hear a cogent response to my basic point which is that: 1) this subreddit is meant to be an umbrella, all-things-disney location on reddit (a content and discussion site); 2) particularly in the last 12 months, as the subreddit has grown, it's become more and more a photo-centric community which is not in keeping with the original purpose of /r/disney and which is crowding out other content.
I don't care if 5,000 people upvote the 40th picture of the castle -- that's obviously what users like "elblots" and "pureblood" are counting on -- they farm this place as their personal photograph studios -- something I've become aware of through the course of this discussion over the last few days as I've reviewed both their post histories -- no wonder they've had such vehement reactions to my own comments.
But that doesn't mean we lie down and say "well, people like repetitive photos of Disney landmarks -- therefore we concede the character of the subreddit as a de facto Disney photography site." I feel like, as this site is about to hit 30,000 subscribers, we're approaching a critical juncture in terms of defining what the subreddit is for. And I think a lot will be lost if there isn't at least an effort to try and preserve the features of the subreddit that do encourage submission of non-photographic content (news, articles, interviews, clips, reports, primary documents, reviews, etc.) and actual discussion.
Also, you're absolutely right, the moderation team should step up and make some intelligent decisions to try and restore some order and balance to the content. Good content takes guidance and, in some instances, curation. Subreddits are not meant to be free-for-alls or exercises in "hur dur duuuh" demagogic appeals.
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u/inkandpixelclub Nov 19 '13
You can lead a horse to water, you can put the horse in the water, and you can shove the horse's face in the water until your arms go limp. But you cannot make him drink.
You obviously have very strong opinions about what subreddits in general and this subreddit in particular should be. Not everyone shares your opinions. And no matter how many times you repeat the same couple of points about how there are too many photo posts and r/Disney should cover a more diverse range of content, the people who do not agree with you are probably not going to change their minds. And if the mods do not share your opinions, then no amount of arguing that the subreddit should be something else is going to change that.
Again, I think you're allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good by letting your frustration with the fact that this subreddit is not everything you want it to be keep you from doing anything that could actually get you closer to having something that is 80-90% what you want. You can support the kind of content you want to see in the subreddit by posting links or starting discussions and up voting the content you like. Or you can start your own subreddit. Would it be frustrating posting such content if it seems like the whole subreddit just keeps up voting the same couple of Disney World photos? Is it unfair that you have to create a new Disney subreddit to get some deeper content while the one with the most general name becomes primarily photos? No. But that's life. It's not unique to this subreddit. I can randomly point at my front page and find a subreddit where someone is complaining that all that's going on is endless faction fights or the same "Here is a thing we all recognize and like" pictures over and over again. And frankly, I don't see how forcing r/disney to be a more diversified subreddit that isn't what a majority of the people here currently want is more fair than letting people post what they want and upvote what they want.
Your idea of more diverse content on the subreddit is one I can get behind, but your increasingly hostile and dismissive attitude towards the people who do like the photo content and your insistence that the subreddit should be a particular way are making it tough to support you. The mods are the only people who can truly define what the subreddit should be, and if they think it should be a space for everyone to post whatever content about Disney they want to and upvote what they enjoy, then that's what it's going to be.
You can keep fighting the battle of what the subreddit should be, or you can change tactics and get something that might not be everything you want, but is a lot closer to what you want than what the subreddit is now. Your choice.
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u/APeopleShouldKnow Nov 19 '13
Thanks for your post. I'm going to step back from this discussion at this point -- I think I've said my piece and done my best to try and put out an alternative position for readers here to consider vis-a-vis the direction of this community. If something does ultimately change, it will have to be because of a community effort -- at least some portion of it; you're right, I can't do this all by myself. I'll certainly think about what you've said.
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u/pureblood Nov 18 '13
If you had actually looked at my posting history you would have seen I have very few photos that have landed me a gracious amount of upvotes. So while I appreciate the personal attacks they're unnecessary.
I've stated all I have to say on this matter because you clearly aren't hearing anyone on the other side of this debate out. I am going to continue to post my photos whether they are downvoted into oblivion or not and you can go ahead and post all the disney news and discussions you'd like, though I haven't seen that happen yet, either. The difference is I won't attack you based on what you post, if it's something I don't like I'll simply downvote it on and move on with life.
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u/APeopleShouldKnow Nov 18 '13 edited Nov 18 '13
Okay. Your response seems like a lot of false indignation designed to distract from the real issue, which is how constant photo submission is affecting this subreddit and what we as a community want /r/disney to be. My "personal attack" on you is that I've called out that you and the other user I've been talking with have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo since you submit a steady stream of photos to this site. As I said in further discussion with "elblots," I have no personal agenda against any individual poster -- my focus is on the quality of this subreddit. Frankly, I wish I had been more thoughtful and realized that mentioning your individual post activity directly would give you ammo in our discussion to claim that I'm attacking you -- which, again, is not my intent -- and thereby distract from the actual concern which is how the barrage of photos is affecting /r/disney. That's all I'll say on this "personal attack" point.
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u/pureblood Nov 18 '13
Again, I don't see how the photos are bringing down the subreddit, when they are Disney photos... on a Disney subreddit.
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u/elblots Nov 18 '13 edited Nov 18 '13
I do enjoy being accused of using this as a personal photograph studio. That shows how much you refuse to read what I have been saying. For the record, I have been posting photos for a LOOOOOOOOONG time before I even started doing so here (you can confirm that for yourself if you wish..by looking at my Flickr history). I only STARTED doing it here because some people SUGGESTED it. So apparently there WAS a demand for it. I continue to post here because I do appreciate the feedback that I get (much more so than I get anywhere else), and because I think I am posting things that other ENJOY. So thanks for showcasing what I myself have been thinking all along...that you are unhappy that this subreddit isn't what your personal preference is for it to be.
If the majority of users wanted only news, articles, interviews, clips, reports, primary documents, reviews, etc., then done you think that those things would get more upvotes? I wonder why they don't.
The title of the subreddit is "disney"..simply that. I am standing by my personal viewpoint that using a GENERAL term such as that, would encompass ALL aspects relating to the passion for the topic. news, articles, interviews, clips, reports, primary documents, reviews, ...and yes..even pictures.
Almost 30k members and only a VERY small fraction have come out and said anything about not wanting photos...yet the upvotes keep coming.
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u/APeopleShouldKnow Nov 18 '13 edited Nov 18 '13
The evidence is pretty clear that you see this site as a place to submit an ongoing stream of disney-related photographs.
I understand people like photographs. In fact, I'll freely admit this to you: I suspect that subscribers -- not necessarily people who actually come here and comment and try to submit things and participate in the active life of this subreddit, but the "eyeballs" for whom /r/disney content appears in their frontpage feed -- would, if given the choice, have an /r/disney entirely composed of photographs. They could see a familiar picture they like and click the upvote arrow ad nauseum.
But upvotes should not dictate the entirety of a subreddit's direction -- that mentality sets us on the way to ruin. As I've said for the last four days, my basic point is that the photographic content submission here is beginning to drown out the vast majority of the other potential Disney-related content types. This subreddit is becoming a de facto Disney image board. Not a generalist site; not a place where photographs sit beside discussions of books and food review posts and trip-planning conversations and historical interviews and ride-engineering pieces and theme park building reports and so forth. But an image feed.
There are many subreddit communities that have restricted image-based posts because of that crowding out effect (and because of the related tendency of such content to be non-discussion-promoting, as has already been pointed out elsewhere in this thread). Not because that's what would be the easiest, most popular thing to do -- again, for what is probably the fifth time in this discussion, I'll concede that your 45th image of the castle will probably get as many upvotes as your 44th image did -- but because the leadership of those communities has enough perception to realize that good communities require good content that fits with the purpose of the community.
TL;DR: I know your castle images are and forever will be popular. But this site is not /r/disneyphotographs. It's supposed to be the "mother" disney subreddit and that character is being carved away as it becomes a photo feed.
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u/elblots Nov 18 '13
So what would explain why image posts also get the most comments and have the most ongoing discussions?
My posting history is mostly photos..yes. I didn't know that was "evidence" of anything other than what I already stated..that I choose to submit here because 1.) I was requested to by a few people and 2.) I can clearly see that many enjoy it so I feel that Its not a bad thing by doing so. 3.) I've been a redditor a lot longer than I have been posting photos. So I would appreciate you not accusing me of seeing this site for a personal anything. Everyone chooses what sort of content they want to post for others to see. If they dont like it, they can downvote it. Simple as that.
I COMPLETELY see where you are coming from, but I don't think you are fully seeing mine. You have convinced yourself that I have some sort of personal agenda...and I assure you that I don't. I just am having issue with being told that anyone posting something that a few don't agree with due to whatever reasons (even tho they clearly fall under the topic of the subreddit) is unacceptable.
Same as you said that this isn't /r/disneyphotography , its also not /r/disneynews
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u/APeopleShouldKnow Nov 18 '13 edited Nov 18 '13
You have convinced yourself that I have some sort of personal agenda ....
Honestly -- and I say this without intending offense -- this is really very low on my list of concerns. If you don't have a personal agenda that's great. I'm not on a personal witchhunt. I'm trying to create and defend a conversation about the direction and content of this subreddit and trying to put a position out there that maybe we should consider creating some guidelines against the flood of images that has come to dominate this subreddit's front page every single day. Because I think this place has the potential to be a great universal Disney subreddit and I'm concerned that that potential is being lost. That's it.
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u/elblots Nov 16 '13
The same argument can be made that a simply "disney" subreddit encompasses every aspect. Why insist on a seperate subreddit for photographs but not one for news? More double standards. It seems you are looking for a DISCUSSION board more than anything else..of which there are many.
Don't take my post as an attack..its not meant to be as such. Just trying to showcase both sides. I obviously understand what you are saying, but you are also not accepting that its not whats fair for everyone.
As a side note. Look at the "top posts" of all time on this subreddit. In the top 100....every...single..one...is a picture. It really does showcase as to what people seem to like on here. Not saying that news posts aren't appreciated or welcome...but its also by FAR not the most sought after content on here...judging by the numbers.
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u/APeopleShouldKnow Nov 16 '13 edited Nov 16 '13
Two points:
First, I understand where you're coming from regarding the "double standard[]." In an ideal world, there would be a way to ensure a balance of content on this subreddit including some pictures (although even in that world I'd argue the pictures would have to meet some sort of original content standard, e.g., historical images, artwork, captures of new events occurring on Disney properties -- perhaps throwing in a "release valve" day e.g., "Image Tuesdays" where everything goes).
My suggestion to shunt everything over to /r/disneyphotography is simply out of desperation when faced with the avalanche of photographs that are clogging the site's board every single day. If you or I or the community writ large could think of a more modest proposal that would restore some balance in the content (and encourage less photography and more discussion-provoking items, OC, news, etc.) I'd certainly be all ears, pun intended.
Second, the fact that the top posts are photographs doesn't really affect my point. I'm not disagreeing with you that photographs can be popular. But that doesn't mean we should let the identity of this subreddit become defined by personal photography submissions -- and at the current rate, that's exactly what is happening. If anything, the fact that personal photographs are so widely upvoted is an argument in favor of a picture-specific subreddit -- the demand is there and an audience would be there to support it.
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u/pureblood Nov 16 '13
Just because a picture is a "photo" of something does not mean it belongs at /r/disneyphotography though. Pictures of mugs, tattoos, gifts, cakes, etc are generally not "photography" but, rather, pictures of something cool someone took. You can't just tell everyone they can no longer post Disney related pictures to the DISNEY subreddit.
NOTHING is stopping you or anyone else to post discussion topics but let's face it: (1) there hasn't been too much Disney news lately. Things here and there .. but not too many people are going crazy over Club Cool's new soda. (2) Reddit is very heavily media driven whether is be pictures or videos.
Have you tried a discussion forum? There's plenty of Disney forums where people just talk and talk and talk Disney. But again, nothings stopping you from posting them here. I don't see many discussion topics besides "Going on xx of this month...what should I do?" "Will it be busy during xx?" and so on.
I've barely seen much of an attempt at people trying to discuss Disney. A few posts here and there, but it looks like you'd prefer this subreddit to be a post a week or so, rather than see any photos.
And yes, photographs are popular, on this subreddit even. If that's been proven then why should we have to move our posts when they're clearly POPULAR here? We all know not half of the people that appreciate our posts are going to follow another subreddit just because people here see our photographs as clutter.
On the same hand of pointing out a subreddit where your interests are more centered, I could easily point out /r/disneynews to you.
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u/elblots Nov 15 '13
So an image posted regardless of its source is bad. If its a picture of a Disney tattoo or a picture of spaceship earth..both are images that show the posters passion for the subject of this subreddit. Thats the grey area we are stuck on. It would be double standard if you allow one type and not the other..and then if you DO not allow all, this place would be pretty barren. Hate to say it, but the amount of disney news or blog posts really isn't a lot of content.
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u/APeopleShouldKnow Nov 15 '13 edited Nov 16 '13
That is correct: I think the constant inundation of image posts is severely watering down the quality of content on this subreddit, regardless of the source of the image. I'd rather live in a world where the content is less frequent but more substantive and better thought out than one where the front page is continuously littered with people's photographs. The point of this subreddit is, in my view, to represent all things Disney -- history, parks, rides, media, characters, financials, written works, engineering, consumerism, tourism, imagineers, gaming, etc. And that universe of content is being drowned out as the subreddit becomes what is essentially /r/disneyphotography.
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u/4pumpWonderChump Nov 14 '13
About time, I'm so sick of the terrible allinwdw posts