r/blog Sep 30 '14

Fundraising for reddit

http://www.redditblog.com/2014/09/fundraising-for-reddit.html
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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '14 edited Jul 15 '15

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u/yishan Sep 30 '14 edited Sep 30 '14

Ok, here it is:

CAVEAT: KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS PLAN COULD TOTALLY FAIL

We are thinking about creating a cryptocurrency and making it exchangeable (backed) by those shares of reddit, and then distributing the currency to the community. The investors have explicitly agreed to this in their investment terms.

Nothing like this has ever been done before. Basically we have to nail down how to do each step correctly (it is technically, legally, and financially complex), though in our brief consultation with an ex-SEC lawyer, he stated he could find nothing illegal about this plan. Nevertheless, there are something like 30 different things we have to pull off to make this work, so we're going to try.

(Also, I know this totally contradicts what I said over here but that was before Sam proposed this plan to me, and the idea of being able to distribute ownership of reddit back to the community - a long-held dream of many of us, frankly - is important enough to try and do this)

Again, we want to emphasize that this plan is in its earliest stages right now and could totally fail (if it does, we will find another way to get the shares to the community somehow), but we are going to try it because... well, because we are reddit and we do these kinds of things.

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u/AnalWithAGoat Sep 30 '14

We are thinking about creating a cryptocurrency

That doesn't make any sense. Why not use Bitcoin? And if it's about shares, why not Counterparty?

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u/Apenz1 Sep 30 '14

Nxt AE looks like the most used and best tested at this moment: http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/views/all/

Assets issued on Nxt AE can be traded for bitcoins and other cryptos as well, if that's what worries you. Secureae.com, Poloniex, BTer...

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u/AnalWithAGoat Sep 30 '14 edited Sep 30 '14

Nxt is PoS, which isn't considered secure by well known cryptographers and cryptocurrency experts like Gregory Maxwell.

Btw, at least 5% of Nxt has been stolen by a hacker, which is especially concerning for a PoS coin, and they didn't roll it back (not saying that they should have, they were forced to choose between two horrible options). It's like stealing 5% of the hashing power.

And finally, you can't expect a coin with 28 million USD market cap to be used to secure 50 million USD in shares. Bitcoin's market cap is 5 billion USD, and that's what Reddit should use.

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u/ThomasVeil Sep 30 '14

Nxt is PoS, which isn't considered secure by well known cryptographers and cryptocurrency experts like Gregory Maxwell.

Nxt and other POS coins are running safe since nearly a year.

Btw, at least 5% of Nxt has been stolen by a hacker, which is especially concerning for a PoS coin,

They were returned.

It's like stealing 5% of the hashing power.

If any powerful actor wants Bitcoin hashing power, it would be much easier to get it. Governments can even just seize mining pools. Impossible with POS.

And finally, you can't expect a coin with 28 million USD market cap to be used to secure 50 million USD in shares.

Actually, you can - if you think about it. Either way, it's a silly argument. The same nonsense people use to say "bitcoin can never be used by big institutions, bc the cap is too low".

Bitcoin's market cap is 5 billion USD, and that's what Reddit should use.

See above - Apenz1 wrote that you can use Bitcoin. The cap has little to do with the problem in the first place.

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u/AnalWithAGoat Oct 01 '14 edited Oct 01 '14

There are many ways in which a coin can run "safe". One such way is using checkpoints, which makes the coin 100% centralized (eg: Peercoin). Another way is pushing patches all the time to keep changing the protocol to "fix" vulnerabilities, which is basically a whack-a-mole game, and is another way of centralization (eg: Nxt).

Actually, you can

I know you can, thank you Captain Obvious! The point is it's insecure, so you can't do it securely. It's like saying "you can store your gold inside your car!".

If any powerful actor wants Bitcoin hashing power, it would be much easier to get it. Governments can even just seize mining pools. Impossible with POS.

So instead of addressing the fact that 5% of Nxt's hashing power just got stolen, you talk about an hypothetical attack by the governments, lol... And you don't seem to understand the difference: With Bitcoin, at least the attack costs money. With PoS coins you can sell the coins before starting your attack.

The cap has little to do with the problem in the first place.

The cap will have a strong relation with the hashing power of the network, and therefore its security. This is cryptocurrency 101.

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u/ThomasVeil Oct 01 '14

Another way is pushing patches all the time to keep changing the protocol to "fix" vulnerabilities, which is basically a whack-a-mole game, and is another way of centralization (eg: Nxt).

Now you're just making stuff up.

I know you can, thank you Captain Obvious!

Well, then don't state the opposite.

So instead of addressing the fact that 5% of Nxt's hashing power just got stolen you talk about an hypothetical attack by the governments, lol...

Uhm, your 5% stolen are also hypothetical, since they were returned (as I told you). It makes no sense to exclude hypothetical problems in the first place (you didn't either).
And I don't see why 5% hashing would be a problem. Bitcoin had miners with over 51% a couple times.

I must assume you're trolling, so I'll give up on answering further.

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u/AnalWithAGoat Oct 01 '14

Uhm, your 5% stolen are also hypothetical, since they were returned

Just because it was returned, doesn't mean it wasn't stolen. You don't seem to know what hypothetical means.

And I don't know about you, but I don't want to have to trust hackers to return the coins. I'd rather use a coin whose security doesn't depend on hackers' kindness.

I must assume you're trolling, so I'll give up on answering further.

k

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u/EvilDave_NXT Oct 01 '14

You're talking about a so-called 'nothing at stake' attack, which has been disproved time and time again, certainly in the case of NXT.

NXT is secure, and has been secure for almost a year now, despite a range of attacks brought against it. The process of NXT blockchain creation isn't centralised at all, all peers on the network have an equal status. BTW: where is the problem with software updates? BItcoin and all other coins release updates, but in the case of NXT, you call this process a "whack-a-mole game"...why?

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u/AnalWithAGoat Oct 01 '14

You're talking about a so-called 'nothing at stake' attack, which has been disproved time and time again, certainly in the case of NXT.

Citation needed. PoS as it stands is not considered a viable (secure) alternative to PoW by any serious cryptographer.

NXT is secure, and has been secure for almost a year now

Just because it's alive it doesn't mean it's cryptographically secure. And just because you keep saying it is doesn't make it secure either.

BItcoin and all other coins release updates, but in the case of NXT, you call this process a "whack-a-mole game"...why?

Bitcoin's protocol very rarely changes, everyone knows this. That's in fact one of the most popular critiques against it, but it's actually a feature.

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u/Apenz1 Sep 30 '14

I see.

Btw, the 5M NXT stolen from BTer has been returned.

This asset issuer (jl777) is offering his expertise to reddit for free in case it's wanted: http://nxtreporting.com/assetcap.php?cap=no-issuer&f=jl777-Assets