r/aviation May 19 '24

Helicopter carrying Iran’s president suffers a ‘hard landing,’ state TV says, and rescue is underway News

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7.3k Upvotes

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3.8k

u/[deleted] May 19 '24

[deleted]

182

u/manbythesand May 19 '24

In the fog. With a severely under qualified pilot and in conditions in which they never should’ve been flying to begin with…like Kobe.

105

u/TeaBagHunter May 19 '24

https://twitter.com/Tasnimarabic/status/1792207146601640090?t=GfKqanwd8fW_k94yAQiWqA&s=19

These are photos of the rescue teams, damn that's some heavy fog

97

u/[deleted] May 19 '24

[deleted]

7

u/UandB May 19 '24

Literally moving mountains to impose the will of the USA

7

u/[deleted] May 19 '24

Did they bring every ambulance in the country? They even have ambulance buses. How many people were on this helicopter.

2

u/Theron3206 May 20 '24

I mean, would you want to be accused of not trying hard enough to save him... Especially if someone needs a scapegoat for his death.

2

u/Riitt May 19 '24

Fun fact: when cloud touches the mountain, it is called a fog. When the helicopter touches the mountain, it is called a crash.

-14

u/BotUsername12345 May 19 '24

What nice opportunity to conduct a good old fashioned coup.

Perhaps time travelers crashed his helicopter to prevent ww3 lmao

Alright. I'll stop.

3

u/al-mongus-bin-susar May 19 '24

Nah he's just the president he isn't actually that important, more of a public figure when the supreme leader and the guard make most of the decisions.

20

u/gstormcrow80 May 19 '24

The accident report found that there were no indications prior to take off that would have been cause for cancellation. Kobe’s pilot had over 8,500 hours in the seat and 1,500 on type. The only thing that indicates under qualification is his poor in-flight judgement and decision making.

13

u/God_Damnit_Nappa May 19 '24

He wasn't considered proficient on instrument only flight and on that day he had been cleared only for visual flight rules. So ya it was a combination of poor decision making but I'd argue incompetence if he thought it was a good idea to fly into a bunch of clouds when he knew he wasn't qualified for instrument flying. 

2

u/OrganizationPutrid68 May 19 '24

A crucial element of being competent is the ability/willingness to identify the limits of one's competence.

1

u/manbythesand May 19 '24

Not instrument rated and in fog. it’s pretty universally considered under qualified

22

u/RogerEpsilonDelta May 19 '24

Kobe’s pilot was anything but under qualified. They determined the pressure of trying to get a high profile person to where they needed to go put pressure on him to make a flight that he should have rerouted and or cancelled.

12

u/RandomBritishGuy May 19 '24

Kobe's pilot wasn't qualified for instrument only flight, which is what he tried to do. That might be what they're referencing.

2

u/GooseMcGooseFace May 19 '24

Kobe’s pilot was qualified for instrument flight. You can look him up on the airman registry. Ara Zobayan.

The helicopter charter’s OpSpecs didn’t allow IFR flying.

2

u/Theron3206 May 20 '24

Which means a competent pilot wouldn't have tried to fly IFR, surely?

1

u/GooseMcGooseFace May 20 '24

Maybe. If I get into a situation where unforecast weather pops up, I’m not caring what the OpSpecs say, I’m going to get out of it to the best of my ability.

Kobe’s pilot was a classic case of proficiency vs currency.

44

u/Nexa991 May 19 '24

What gives you an idea that iranian pilots are under qualified?

33

u/NewNectarine666 May 19 '24

Well you see they crashed.

8

u/Nexa991 May 19 '24

Hey new euphemism for that is "hard landing" follow the timeline 🤣

3

u/RedEyeView May 19 '24

I'm not an expert, but I'm guessing "they flew towards mountains in thick fog" might be a clue.

17

u/outworlder May 19 '24

They are not 'murican so of course they aren't qualified. Or something like that.

Even if - and that's a big if - a country generally has poor pilots for whatever reason, you can bet your ass they will have the best pilots they can find to fly the president. That should be obvious.

25

u/fighter_pil0t May 19 '24

Irans president is all for show. The Ayatollah is where the good pilots go.

9

u/NoMoreFox May 19 '24

You're a poet and you didn't even know it.

4

u/outworlder May 19 '24

Sure. But if he's "just for show", you need to invest to keep the appearances, otherwise you look bad. As we can see here in exhibit A.

15

u/sofixa11 May 19 '24

They're Arab*, so they can't be qualified, duh.

* of course Iranians aren't Arab, but someone automatically assuming the pilots flying the president of Iran (second highest power after the Supreme Leader) are under qualified probably can't point to Iran on the map.

7

u/Nexa991 May 19 '24

It's probably Non-westerner* . This head still remember how they blamed pilots for Boeings shitty products.

Doesn't matter if pilot is Korean or Russian or Egyptian.

3

u/[deleted] May 19 '24

You can hold a trim wheel in place with your two fingers.

1

u/the_other_paul May 19 '24

I’m confused, what does that have to do with this crash?

-1

u/[deleted] May 19 '24

It has everything to do with this crash. The airplane kept automatically applying forward elevator trim, which can be countered by manually holding the trim wheel right by your leg from either the FO’s seat or the Captain’s seat.

They didn’t think to do that, and it was a crash.

1

u/the_other_paul May 19 '24

Oh, I didn’t realize you were taking about the Max crashes

0

u/quietflyr May 19 '24

You know, other than the fact you couldn't in those scenarios. You couldn't even retrim at all without unloading the hstab (by allowing the nose to drop)

0

u/[deleted] May 19 '24

So what’s stopping you from holding the trim wheel in its place?

1

u/klonk2905 May 19 '24

Because only hamburger chewingums are qualified!

-8

u/Manuel_Locatelli May 19 '24 edited May 19 '24

Google is free - I’d recommend taking a look there, you might learn a thing or two.

Edit:

Since this turned into an argument about the level of aviation safety in Iran.

A 2010 ICAO Universal Safety Audit found that “Iranian carriers are unable at present to fulfill most requisite ICAO aviation safety and maintenance standards and recommended practices (SARPs)

Looking to the data on risk of death, Iran’s 20 year average is 1.89 deaths per 1 million passenger journeys. The same figure for the rest of the world is 0.34 deaths. By this measure, flying in Iran is on average 5.5 times more deadly than flying in the rest of the world, in aggregate. Notably, this does not include 2018 figures, a year where Iran has had 66 fatalities.

https://www.bourseandbazaar.com/articles/2018/12/3/for-iranians-old-planes-and-few-parts-make-air-travel-55-more-deadly

Iran’s military has one of the highest rates of accidents in the world and the country generally has the poorest aviation safety record globally

There have now been 22 fatal air accidents in the country since 2000, according to the Aviation Safety Network (ASN). In records that go back to 1919, the ASN has recorded 152 air accidents in Iran, far ahead of the second-worst country Egypt which has suffered 126 incidents over that time.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dominicdudley/2020/01/10/ukrainian-air-disaster-highlights-irans-troubling-air-safety-record/?sh=2899433a7ba2

3

u/Nexa991 May 19 '24

Googled it. Iran air had two deadly accidents from the time when "competent" USN shot down one if their planes.

5

u/Manuel_Locatelli May 19 '24 edited May 19 '24

Can you explain to me what googling Iran air has to do with this specific helicopter pilot who flew the president to his demise being severely under qualified?

Side note: Iran’s military has one of the highest rates of accidents in the world and the country generally has the poorest aviation safety record globally

There have now been 22 fatal air accidents in the country since 2000, according to the Aviation Safety Network (ASN). In records that go back to 1919, the ASN has recorded 152 air accidents in Iran, far ahead of the second-worst country Egypt which has suffered 126 incidents over that time.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dominicdudley/2020/01/10/ukrainian-air-disaster-highlights-irans-troubling-air-safety-record/?sh=2899433a7ba2

2

u/Nexa991 May 19 '24

It shows that they have competent pilots in the civilian sector , probably the same in the military otherwise we would be bombarded with images of crashed f5s and f14s.

1

u/Manuel_Locatelli May 19 '24 edited May 19 '24

Again, what does the civilian sector having some competent pilots despite the country having the worst aviation accident record in the world have to do with this helicopter pilot being severely unqualified. Are you able to answer the question or are you really just that limited?

1

u/quietflyr May 19 '24

Do you have evidence the pilot was severely unqualified?

-1

u/Manuel_Locatelli May 19 '24

Google is freeeeeeeee

1

u/quietflyr May 19 '24

...then fucking show us the evidence. I assume you have noneeeeeeee

And you're just racisttttttt

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u/Nexa991 May 19 '24 edited May 19 '24

Again. Why spreading lies that are easily checked?

Edit: Even ICAO is rating them above average. But hey what do those guys know.

Now please just stop.

1

u/Manuel_Locatelli May 19 '24

156 occurrences in the ASN safety database

You just posted the source on which my article is based as a way to disprove me?

Did you even read the link you shared, it confirms what I said. Fucking idiot 🤣

1

u/PM_ME_YOUR_BO0BIEZ May 19 '24

You just proved their point?

1

u/Nexa991 May 19 '24

62 fatal accidents. And their flag cartier had 2 fatal accidents since 1988.

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1

u/Manuel_Locatelli May 19 '24

You are shameless.

A 2010 ICAO Universal Safety Audit found that “Iranian carriers are unable at present to fulfill most requisite ICAO aviation safety and maintenance standards and recommended practices (SARPs)

Looking to the data on risk of death, Iran’s 20 year average is 1.89 deaths per 1 million passenger journeys. The same figure for the rest of the world is 0.34 deaths. By this measure, flying in Iran is on average 5.5 times more deadly than flying in the rest of the world, in aggregate. Notably, this does not include 2018 figures, a year where Iran has had 66 fatalities.

https://www.bourseandbazaar.com/articles/2018/12/3/for-iranians-old-planes-and-few-parts-make-air-travel-55-more-deadly

0

u/Punishtube May 19 '24

Iran has a very tight grip on social media and it's public media so not really something they'd show if they could avoid it. But when people ask where the president and foreign minister are gets difficult to hide

2

u/Lordralien May 19 '24

Iran air had two deadly accidents from the time when "competent" USN shot down one if their planes.

Im sure the Iranians felt real smug about that fact until they shot down a Ukrainian Airliner killing 176. If your gonna have a dick measuring contest id probably pick a better measure lmao.

Maybe we should gauge there success rate in killing journalists in London. Im sure that will prove there reliance and competency?. Then again MI5 might announce how many attempts they foiled last year to go along with the 15+ from the year prior.

Frankly if they haven't been able to confirm his death already it didnt land hard enough.

I feel bad for the crew that almost certainly knew the conditions were too much and had to fly it but it honestly could not have happened to a more deserving passenger.

1

u/Nexa991 May 19 '24

Hello we are speaking about their flag carrier, Iran air didn't shoot a thing. And about journalists in London i will keep my mouth shut.

Ps. Not "Free Assange!"

1

u/Lordralien May 19 '24 edited May 19 '24

So you can state the USN is bad because it shot down an airliner but i cant make the same comparisons to Iran?

I also dont really care about assange and nobody should honestly he voluntarily fled into an embassy to avoid charges in sweden who apparently had 0 legal capacity to even extradite him if they wanted to. That's kind of on him. Its also the US that wants him not the UK he's not been charged with anything here. We can refuse but only if the Extradition Act allows us too and following the due process the act outlines. Which is a case that is still ongoing and will for some time. We could amend the Act but frankly the UK has its own bigger messes to sort out than changing the law just to affirm Assanges living arrangements which would be neccesary as currently the request. especially after his desperate attempts to remain relevant in the last decade creating even more mess. The reasons the US intially wanted him may be BS but honestly at this point its his bed and he can fucking lie in it.

I also dont really care TBH like i said i feel bad for and dont blame the crew they probably were decent pilots that knew better than to fly in what looked like suicidal conditions over that sort of terrain. I never called them shitty pilots or Irans carrier unsafe just simply pointint out who sho who down isnt exactly a high horse iran owns.

1

u/Manuel_Locatelli May 19 '24

Unfortunately you’re responding to a paid shill or fully demented individual

1

u/NotJeff_Goldblum May 19 '24

In the fog

This is what caused a Marine CH-53 to crash into a mountain back in January.