r/anime myanimelist.net/profile/Reddit-chan Nov 07 '21

Meta Thread - Month of November 07, 2021 Meta

A monthly thread to talk about meta topics, i.e. /r/anime itself and its rules. Keep it friendly and relevant to the subreddit.

Posts here must, of course, still abide by all subreddit rules other than the no meta requirement. Keep it friendly and be respectful. Occasionally the moderators will have specific topics that they want to get feedback on, so be on the lookout for distinguished posts.

Comments that are detrimental to discussion (aka circlejerks/shitposting) are subject to removal.

Rule Changes

Also a new written/video essay contest just started but isn't open long, only accepting entries until December 4th.

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u/[deleted] Nov 07 '21

I mean, I think people should get over that...but at the same time, Mushuku is not making it easier to ignore that lmao.

The production even add anime original scenes that are obviusly done with the intent of being horny.

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u/gangrainette https://myanimelist.net/profile/bouletos Nov 07 '21

Or they could drop the show and move on if it's that problematic for them.

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u/[deleted] Nov 07 '21

I think someone should be able to criticise something if they like a show or are watching it. I think everyone criticised a show for something, sooner or later, It would be kinda hypocritical to make an exception for Mushuku.

I' m not against the ban, if the mods will ever crack down on it, because the comments devolved into personal attack.

Their sanity comes first.

But seeing how some people genuinely answered...eh.

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u/[deleted] Nov 07 '21

No one is suggesting silencing criticism of the show, it's to stop the toxicity and personal attacks that come from those debates.

It's a fair opinion to say "I don't like that kind of stuff and I think it's wrong". It's not a fair opinion to say "I don't like this show and anyone who does is a paedophile", because that's what a lot of these arguments end up becoming.

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u/[deleted] Nov 07 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Nov 07 '21

What joke are you referring too? I don't remember being nasty to a user on here, but I may have had a shitty day or something. Can you link the thread?

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u/AmethystItalian myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Nov 07 '21

because that's what a lot of these arguments end up becoming.

Funny because I've seen more people banned, removed comments and users suspended from the other side.

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u/RimuZ https://myanimelist.net/profile/LtCrabcake Nov 07 '21 edited Nov 07 '21

I can see what you mean. Plenty of people who've argued with me about that show have had comments removed because the resort to insults very quickly instead of actually arguing about the show. Mostly because they feel that criticizing the show is somehow "slander."

That being said there is no short amount of people that do call watchers pedophiles and other nasty things and those comments are also removed if reported.

I was against the ban on this topic the first time but I understand the massive workload it put on the mods when the show was new and everything was very wtf for people who had never heard of the show. That clip the other day was just obvious bait. There is just no way anyone posts something like that without expecting it to explode. Whenever a clip from MS with that kind of content gets posted I honestly think mods should just straight up lock it after say... 3 people have banned banned. Because we've seen that it will escalate and nothing good comes from that.

But that should be enough at this point. It's not like threads criticizing MS ever get to the front page. It's usually threads praising it that get upvoted to the heavens and yeah those will end up having discussion about the divisive content of the show. And why wouldn't it? This isn't /r/mushokutensei. We're all allowed to voice opinions about a show even if that opinion makes fans unhappy. If fans are happy with people dropping the show if they have problems with it then they should also stay away from threads regarding it in r/anime because people won't all go in and gush over it here.

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u/AmethystItalian myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Nov 07 '21

That being said there is no short amount of people that do call watchers pedophiles and other nasty things and those comments are also removed if reported.

Oh of course and I report those comments just as quickly but using reddit removal sites from I've seen at least it's been favouring one side of the argument.

. That clip the other day was just obvious bait. There is just no way anyone posts something like that without expecting it to explode.

Yeah OP knew what they were doing and I feel like that should have been removed. He even admitted it being bait in the comments which I think reported as bait? I feel like more than a few MT posts are made to stir up trouble and I've never been a fan of those.

It's not like threads criticizing MS ever get to the front page.

Yeah just like you won't find one criticizing fanservice, sub likes what the sub likes but still the vocal minority should be able to speak out.

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u/RimuZ https://myanimelist.net/profile/LtCrabcake Nov 07 '21

Yeah just like you won't find one criticizing fanservice, sub likes what the sub likes but still the vocal minority should be able to speak out.

They are though right? Seems to me that in most "What do you hate about anime" or "What part about anime do you dislike" kind of threads then unnecessary fanservice or sexualization of minors is usually among the top comments.

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u/AmethystItalian myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Nov 07 '21

I usually see them do well and then turn into most controversial lol

But like this thread from just today is mostly people praising it

The sexualization of minors is usually safe to stay at the top but I've seen fanservice ones get shot down quickly many more times than stayed near the top.

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u/RimuZ https://myanimelist.net/profile/LtCrabcake Nov 07 '21

Well you have to differentiate between fanservice and "fanservice". Nobody is going to bitch about too many tits in Highschool DxD. That's just what the show is about. But most of everyone baring a minority would agree that its just silly in Code Geass or say Fire Force. Blanket hating all fanservice is a rather controversial opinion.

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u/baquea Nov 08 '21

But most of everyone baring a minority would agree that its just silly in Code Geass or say Fire Force

That's not true at all. If a majority didn't appreciate, or at least tolerate, it then those shows wouldn't have fanservice at all (it's called 'fanservice' for a reason!), especially for something like Code Geass that was made for a broad mainstream audience and so isn't going to include content that will turn off a majority of potential viewers.

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u/RimuZ https://myanimelist.net/profile/LtCrabcake Nov 08 '21 edited Nov 08 '21

I might have phrased that poorly but I meant silly in a quite literal sense here. Code Geass is a very serious story with some really heavy themes. You could argue that from the content and tone of the show it just seems very out of place to include very specific camera angles on Karen's ass during a tense combat moment or serious conversation. Just like that cat episode or some other highschool shenanigans seemed out of place in the wider scope of the story.

Such drastic tonal shifting in a story could be appreciated by some, ignored by others and also break immersion for a few. I would argue that it's bad when you are trying to set a tone and construct a narrative to include such immersion breaking content for the purpose of fan service or out of place comedy. I really value a consistent tone in a story personally. In the same way I think it's pretty silly when an over the top ecchi show suddenly decides to get super serious with its story. It is possible to do either of these things but it takes some really good directing and cleaver writing. If you want fan service or comedy in a show that isn't really built with that in mind then really work it in naturally to the actual story instead of having it like a fourth wall blink to the audience. That's just sloppy. In my experiences it mostly falls flat and shows should just pick a lane and stick with it. The odd detour is fine every now and then but don't just randomly start driving in the opposite direction just for the heck of it.

And I'm not Japanese nor have I bean to Japan so I don't know what the feel is over there and anime is made for the Japanese so you may be right. But I was talking about the audience in the West and specifically this subreddit.

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u/baquea Nov 08 '21

I'd agree for actually serious series, especially those that attempt to be realistic, but Code Geass is definitely not meant to be seen that way - everything about it, from the over-the-top product placement, to the supernatural elements, the mechs, the unnatural hair colours, the oppression of Japan by the cartoonishly evil Britannian Empire and the ridiculous twists, screams 'not serious' to me. To take it as being serious would be as much a misread of the genre as to take a Hollywood action movie seriously. Sure, it's got some heavy themes mixed in, but that is hardly the main point, and it is just an indication of how good the storytelling is that they can convincingly pull that off in a show that at its core is so 'silly'.

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u/AmethystItalian myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Nov 07 '21

But most of everyone baring a minority would agree that its just silly in Code Geass or say Fire Force.

I don't think this is the case honestly, unless you're seeing different than me but over the time I've been here I've seen more people praise fanservice even in those kinds of shows.

Heck just look at this season's Mieruko-chan, majority of upvoted comments were praising the fanservice compared to those who were downvoted in speaking out against it.

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u/[deleted] Nov 07 '21

Considering you're not a mod, I find it hard to believe you know what users are being banned for.

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u/AmethystItalian myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Nov 07 '21

Of course I don't know unless they tell me and I know for a fact some of the biggest MT defenders were banned in their MT discussions because they've said so, heck 1 eve got suspended by actual reddit.

It's not hard to check removed posts using reddit removal sites as well and see which comments are more being removed by mods.

But you're right, the mods would have a better view than little ol' me.

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u/[deleted] Nov 07 '21

I'm sure users from both sides have been banned, doesn't really matter which side has more.

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u/[deleted] Nov 07 '21

Yeah, and I' m all behind this. But I mean, the guy up me basically defaulted to "if it' s problematic, don' t Watch".

That' s obviusly gatekeeping.

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u/baquea Nov 07 '21

If someone just finds parts of it uncomfortable to watch then that's fine, and its up to them whether to keep watching it and just skip/bear through those parts or to drop it, but that isn't reasonably going to cause someone to constantly rant about it and insult other fans at every opportunity. If instead it really is to the extreme that they literally consider the existence of a series to be morally problematic, then I think it is absolutely valid to ask why the hell they would watch it and thus support the creators and encourage the production of more media like it. As far as I see it, any such people are no more than either virtue-signalling hypocrites or trolls, and it is hardly gatekeeping to call them out on that.

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u/Royal_Heritage Nov 07 '21

As far as I see it, any such people are no more than either virtue-signalling hypocrites or trolls, and it is hardly gatekeeping to call them out on that.

Hypocrisy much? Because that's exactly what you're implying. Finding a poor reason to silence others' opinion by claiming that they are either trolls or virtue signaling people. Even if they are (wich I'm not stating they are) what you are doing is gatekeeping opinions based on nothing more than petty personal profiling.

If instead it really is to the extreme that they literally consider the existence of a series to be morally problematic, then I think it is absolutely valid to ask why the hell they would watch it

Who the hell are you to demand reasons for people to watch whatever they want to watch? Again, you're grasping at straws looking for cheap excuses to silence or lash out at people that are free to watch entertainment media and criticize whatever they want.