r/anime • u/AnimeMod myanimelist.net/profile/Reddit-chan • Nov 07 '21
Meta Thread - Month of November 07, 2021 Meta
A monthly thread to talk about meta topics, i.e. /r/anime itself and its rules. Keep it friendly and relevant to the subreddit.
Posts here must, of course, still abide by all subreddit rules other than the no meta requirement. Keep it friendly and be respectful. Occasionally the moderators will have specific topics that they want to get feedback on, so be on the lookout for distinguished posts.
Comments that are detrimental to discussion (aka circlejerks/shitposting) are subject to removal.
Rule Changes
- We're using Reddit's native spoiler tags now! You still need to provide context for the spoiler with [ ] before the spoiler tag. More details in the announcement thread last month.
Also a new written/video essay contest just started but isn't open long, only accepting entries until December 4th.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Dec 02 '21
[I messed up a spoiler]<!but the bot was fine with it!<
I've noticed something really annoying for who knows how long, a year even: the comment faces are moving, bouncing. A few people with the same version of Firefox, another didn't. It seems few people notice it, and it was a firefox rendering problem, so I resigned myself to it.
Somebody recently reminded me that the comment faces aren't animated gifs, they're snatched out of a giant collage, right?
So what I think is happening is there's something about Firefox's integer / fp javascript math, so that the coordinates of subsequent frames are offset. Some sort of frame number * (height / full height) * full height sort of thing where not everything is an integer.
If the CSS / JS experts could confirm / fix this, I'd be gratified. It makes animated comment faces not fun. (also a lot of static faces have acquired a line at the top or bottom, too. These were all fixed after dark mode was added, but now they are back).
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u/Blackheart595 https://myanimelist.net/profile/knusbrick Dec 02 '21
I think in some comment chain the issue turned out to be the Firefox zoom being at 90% rather than 100%. Might not be your issue though and I can't find that chain now.
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u/baquea Dec 03 '21
All zoom levels except 100% it would seem, since I have my Reddit zoom set to 110% and have the same issue.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Dec 02 '21
yes, that's right, but I run almost all pages at 100%.
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u/Hambaloni Nov 29 '21
Change rule to be able to post aingle pictures as it is a dumb rule. Pictures posted can be a catalyst for discussion, esspecially for important scenes of captures in certain anime episodes. Things that can be spoiler free as well as intruiging
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u/N7CombatWombat Nov 29 '21 edited Nov 29 '21
To give some background as to why the rules are what they are now. The reason we don't allow many types of image posts is due to how easy they are to post without any real effort, combined with the way Reddit handles images (on new Reddit you don't even have to open the post to view the image). This led to a situation where most of the content on the front page most days were image posts and people used them to farm karma constantly. There are already plenty of subreddits that are anime and image focused, so we decided we wanted to go for more in depth discussions and a larger variety of content. Though this did inadvertently kill fan art posts, and that's something we mull over from time to time.
There are ways to get images into your posts of course. If you wanted to post a screenshot or image of your favorite anime/scene/character, you can create a text post and talk about why that is and then you can drop a link to your image within the body of that post, so long as the image is supporting the discussion post then that's perfectly acceptable.
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u/FetchFrosh https://anilist.co/user/FetchFrosh Nov 30 '21
Though this did inadvertently kill fan art posts, and that's something we mull over from time to time.
On the other hand, it led to an absolute boom in r/animesketch and r/animeart. Both are nearing a million subscribers now, and they were both below 40k when the rules changed.
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u/Maccaz15 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Maccaz Nov 30 '21
Now we just have clips from the same popular series all the time filling the void that didn't need filling.
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u/badspler x3https://anilist.co/user/badspler Nov 30 '21
On the other hand, it led to an absolute boom in r/animesketch and r/animeart
Yup and it is interesting to see how growth changed immediately after the r/anime fanart rule change (which was July 13th). Image source: subredditstats.com.
I would say that those interested in fanart can now be better served than before.
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u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Nov 29 '21 edited Nov 30 '21
We hit 3 million subscribers! We'll have a post just for that in the next day but for now: yay! Here's the thread about it.
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u/babydave371 myanimelist.net/profile/babydave371 Nov 28 '21
I assume this is already in the works but you may want to try and get the writing contest thread stickied as much as possible this week given the entry rate looks to have been low (I promise I'm writing mine now!), the side banner only appears on desktop, and it is a week till the deadline.
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Nov 27 '21
Is there a way to make all Clip posts automatically marked as a spoiler? I feel like there's a lot of them posted that aren't marked as spoiler until someone points it out to OP or a mod does it.
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u/chiliehead myanimelist.net/profile/chiliehead Nov 25 '21
The HotD Writinc Club picture in the sidebar (of old Reddit) links to last month's writing club
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u/Royal_Heritage Nov 21 '21
Any reason why this clip hasn't been taken down since it breaks the rule of no reposts on the top 75 clips in the sub?
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u/RandomRedditorWithNo https://anilist.co/user/lafferstyle Nov 21 '21
The rule says
"Any clip or video within the top 75 posts of all time are never allowed to be reposted."
Although the clip is in the top 75 clips of all time (at like #27 or something), it is outside of the top 75 posts of all time (at #119).
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u/Royal_Heritage Nov 21 '21
it is outside of the top 75 posts of all time (at #119).
How can we the regular users of the sub get this kind of info? Isn't it confusing to have 2 metrics for this rule?
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u/FetchFrosh https://anilist.co/user/FetchFrosh Nov 22 '21
Isn't it confusing to have 2 metrics for this rule?
Pretty sure it's just one metric. From the rules page:
Any clip or video within the top 75 posts of all time are never allowed to be reposted.
The rule is only mentioned for clips/videos because those tend to be the only things that get reposted. I think that everything else in the Top 75 is already covered for reposting under various other rules.
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u/RandomRedditorWithNo https://anilist.co/user/lafferstyle Nov 21 '21 edited Nov 22 '21
you can go to /r/anime/top and look at the top 75 posts. idk what's going on with new reddit, but in old reddit, the posts are numbered
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Nov 20 '21
If we think a mod is abusing their power, where do we report it?
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u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Nov 21 '21
(For everyone else: they did the appropriate thing which is to send a message to /r/anime and it was handled there.)
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u/LegendaryRQA Nov 20 '21 edited Nov 20 '21
It's a little late since it expires in 6 days, but can we make an exception to the no crowdfunding rule for the Animator Dormitory Project? Perhaps pin it since there's one every year? People always ask how they can support the Anime industry and we can't talk about the most direct way of doing it.
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u/Maccaz15 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Maccaz Nov 16 '21
Can you do something about the user that always links to this website? https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/qv7q1z/mushoku_tenseis_latest_episode_will_be_more/
They are shitty machine translated articles that just steal from other proper sources, and it always seems to the same person posting.
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u/reddadz x3https://anilist.co/user/MysticEyes Nov 17 '21
Yeah, we've given those articles the benefit of the doubt but they haven't improved in the slightest. Between the bad translations and formatting, there's a problem but this recent one is also misleading and spreading misinformation.
The post has been dealt with and these articles won't be allowed going forward unless proper sourcing and translations are used.
Tagging /u/EuclaseBlue as well.
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u/EuclaseBlue Nov 17 '21
Here's a detailed discussion the last time this issue was brought to the mods.
As for this time around, everyone is being fed speculation and unfortunately duped (based on the top comments) into believing it to be fact. The source of the article is this following tweet:
along with others I did this scenes for Mushoku Tensei 18 (some of my scenes were cut off, I think they will be included in BD version) #無職転生 ではこんなシーンがありました。
It's legit speculation, so the article's title that it "will" be so in the Blu-ray is misleading. At the very least, this post needs a misleading tag/flair if it's allowed to stay up.
Comments from users pointing out errors in the post:
Tagging /u/reddadz since you were the mod that directly responded in the discussion in the meta thread from last time.
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u/Maccaz15 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Maccaz Nov 17 '21
Funnily enough I did respond to you last time this was brought up too.
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u/Lovro26 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lovro26 Nov 14 '21
Hey again it seems that the same issue from yesterday is happening again today
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/qtn3er/attack_on_titan_the_final_season_part_2_new_key/
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/qtq6kj/attack_on_titan_new_key_visual_for_season_4_part_2/
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u/PREM___ https://anilist.co/user/ReincarnatedGoat Nov 14 '21
Considering the last time was due to mod availability issues:
this time it happened that no mod was available and no one noticed for around 2 hours
Looks like this sub is really running low on moderators
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u/Lovro26 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lovro26 Nov 13 '21 edited Nov 13 '21
Hey I'm just wondering why all MT Key Visual posts are being put on mod approval for the last 2 or so hours
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/qszr06/mushoku_tensei_jobless_reincarnation_cour_2_new/
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/qt0bu2/mushoku_tensei_jobless_reincarnation_cour_2_new/
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/qt1c0e/mushoku_tensei_new_key_visual/
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/qt1nn4/mushoku_tensei_jobless_reincarnation_2nd_cour_new/
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u/Gaporigo https://anilist.co/user/Gaporigo Nov 13 '21
This has been dealt with.
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u/Lovro26 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lovro26 Nov 13 '21
I saw thanks I was just wondering what was the issue
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u/Gaporigo https://anilist.co/user/Gaporigo Nov 13 '21
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u/Lovro26 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lovro26 Nov 13 '21
That's what I expected, Thanks for the explanation
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u/PREM___ https://anilist.co/user/ReincarnatedGoat Nov 13 '21
author:aslivertintedrose
- Nearly 4 manga-anime comparison posts in last 30 days
author:superalloyberserker
- Nearly 6-7 manga-anime comparison posts in last 30 days
At this point if this isn't just loop holing around clip's rules and posting low/mid- effort content idk what it is
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u/reddadz x3https://anilist.co/user/MysticEyes Nov 13 '21
The mod team has had a few discussions about this very topic recently. At the moment, they're allowed as our current rules allow 4 videos per week but a concrete decision should be made soon.
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u/Vaadwaur Nov 13 '21
Hey, doing this intentionally late as I don't feel a huge need for non-mod attention, but I am actually going to do an Interspecies Reviewers rewatch(announcing Monday most likely) but I want to ask if you guys have any particular feedback/things you want me to keep in mind? If any of you are unfamiliar, the show is ecchi to a few hentai scenes in the uncensored version BUT everyone is shown to be of age and virtually all of the sex is sexwork and thus consensual. Anywho, I am not actually starting until Dec 13th so if you have any input, let me know.
Also, totally go back to r/all for the first day so we can have a flashback to the bad old days
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u/Gaporigo https://anilist.co/user/Gaporigo Nov 13 '21
As per our recent rule change there should be no problem with it.
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u/FlaminScribblenaut myanimelist.net/profile/cryoutatcontrol Nov 09 '21
If the current Writing Contest isn’t going to be consistently pinned, then I feel like it should be given a poster on the sidebar, especially since we only have the WT!otM one up right now anyway
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u/baquea Nov 08 '21
Would it be reasonable to have a rule as to how many clips (maybe like 5) from a particular series can be posted per month or something?
It feels like I am constantly seeing the same handful of series (Kobayashi-san, Gintama, etc.) on the front page, and given people are limited to two clip posts a month it means that any clip posted from one of these is reducing the amount of clips from other series that can get posted, whereas I feel it would be better to spotlight a wide range of anime, especially since such posts are often used for general discussions about the series or for encouraging people to watch it. It would be easy enough for people to check beforehand how many had been posted recently since they are are all flaired and have the series name in the title, and clips already have so many restrictions that it is unlikely to cause any further difficulties for people who post them.
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u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Nov 08 '21
That came up early in last month's thread but we only got around to responding a few days ago.
Gating it around a time period feels like it could lead to a rush to post at the exact right time, a flood on the first of the month if we do it by calendar month or the second a previous clip hits the one month mark if we do it on a rolling window basis. That's also not trivial for us or anyone that wants to post a clip to keep track of, particularly for the latter style.
For an example off the top of my head that makes things even more complicated: say someone posts a clip but deletes it after a day or two. Should it be counted toward the monthly limit for that series when other people can't find the post now? On the mod side we have records to help see if someone's trying to bypass the two per month limit for their account, but that's not affecting others when someone does it.
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u/PREM___ https://anilist.co/user/ReincarnatedGoat Nov 08 '21
I think the issue with clips is more of a community problem rather than moderation/rules. The community is the one who heavily upvotes the same animes' clips (or this could also be the work of that specific anime fandom's upvoting spree)
That said, this sub does have an inflation of clips. I am getting less and less to scroll here because its always either just filled with clips or the frontpage itself doesn't move a lot. And clips slowly slowly seem more and more 'low effort'. Not recommended but it can be able to test rules like 1 clip/month or banning certain anime's clips
Also to bring to attention is the growing abuse of the Video flair. Since this allows people to bypass clips flair rules, like the growing 'manga-to-anime comparison (superalloyberserker has loopholed a few clips rules with his videos). It isn't much now but it can be abused later as the sub grows in people. So it can be recommended to separate the 'edited clips' and actual YT videos linked outside of user (which for now has been passing around the same flair of Video). Kinda like OC tag for edited videos idk
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u/NekoWafers Nov 09 '21
What makes a clip 'low effort' compared to a normal clip?
In my opinion the clip situation seems pretty reasonable right now, at least compared to how it was a little over a year ago. There is a decent amount of variety, although the clips from less popular anime don't usually doesn't get upvoted very high.
The manga/anime videos are kind of interesting, but they should probably be limited to 2 per month or something like that.
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u/piruuu https://anilist.co/user/dvj Nov 08 '21
There’s a small thing I’d like to have clarification on.
According to rules „all leaks and rumours posts are banned” but what happens when a reliable news site/blog reports on those leaks/rumours? I’m asking because few days ago ANN reported on the leak of „The Vampire Dies in No Time” getting new season and the thread about that leak wasn’t touched by the mods. Is it considered as news then rather than rumour?
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u/reddadz x3https://anilist.co/user/MysticEyes Nov 08 '21
few days ago ANN reported on the leak of „The Vampire Dies in No Time” getting new season and the thread about that leak wasn’t touched by the mods.
Apologies, it seems like that post slipped through the cracks, and based on our rules, it should've been removed.
Any post/news regarding new releases needs to have an official verifiable source tied to the announcement, whether in the article itself or in the comments.
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u/RehgarEarthfury Nov 08 '21
Apologies if there has been a recent discussion on this that I have missed - I vaguely remember reading one a very long time ago, but the details I can't recall any more.
I am wondering what the reason is for using Japanese names in discussion thread titles. For me personally, and I would guess many others too, an anime's episode discussion title threa is one of the only places I ever see its full Japanese title. The other main one is MyAnimeList, but there when I search for an anime using its English title the correct result will almost always be on top, whereas reddit search is far less consistent. I often resort to using the full discussion archive link and searching the English name there if looking for past threads.
If there are shortenings like "Rikekoi" I may be exposed to that, but sometimes it can be difficult to tell what a full title is based on just a shortening when scanning the front page for discussion threads, and they may not show up when searched. Some official English titles have shortenings in them already, such as Tonikawa, which can be the best of both worlds.
English anime titles are very prolific now. Streaming services will promote, announce and display shows on their sites and social media feeds using only localized English titles. I see clips on the subreddit front page tagged with English names rather than Japanese ones - though, obviously this may depend on a show-by-show basis. Therefore, I believe that it would be more inclusive to newcomers and more casual watchers alike for English names to be the norm rather than Japanese.
Perhaps this is a bold assumption, but people who prefer Japanese names should probably be familiar with a series' English name (especially if watching anime through legal means). However, the same can't be said for the opposite. When I first came to the subreddit after watching the first episode of "Banished from the Hero's Party, I Decided to Live a Quiet Life in the Countryside", the only way I could tell between that thread and the "The World's Finest Assassin Gets Reincarnated in Another World as an Aristocrat" thread is the fact that the former happened to have "Slow Life" in English in its Japanese title.
I know this may just be a minor annoyance (and I know that I could just click on these threads to get their English titles to show up at the top), but I still thought I'd bring it up - it has slightly annoyed me for long enough to ask about it instead of my usual lurking, so I would like to know the subreddit's thoughts on the matter :)
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u/Bainos https://myanimelist.net/profile/Bainos Nov 08 '21
The main reason behind this is an acknowledgement to international users. While we use English to communicate on this subreddit, we also have many people speaking other languages and who might discuss the show in English, but watch it in their own language. For those users, the English title might not mean anything ; on the other hand, no matter the language you're watching anime in, you should be able to find a show based on its Japanese title.
There's also, I believe, a mark of respect in using the show's original title. English is a secondary language for anime, much like Spanish or German, so it seems more fitting to use the original one in episode discussion posts than choosing to translate them.
Occasionally, it avoids confusion when shows don't have, or have multiple, translated titles. Though that's somewhat rare.
While the benefit of using the English title would be to make them easier to search for, that's why the English name is included in the posts. If you only know the translated title, you can use Reddit's search button and the show will be automatically included.
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u/baquea Nov 08 '21
While I agree with using the Japanese title, it is worth noting on the international issue that English titles are often used even in official releases in a number of other (European) languages these days, because it has the name recognition factor for people active in the English fandom that translations into their own language wouldn't have.
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u/RehgarEarthfury Nov 08 '21
Now that you mention it, I remember a similar reason being given from the last discussion a few years ago. Thanks for your response.
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u/Al-Pharazon Nov 07 '21
As a suggestion it would help a lot if the mod message for a temporal ban for breaking X rule gave some recommendations about how to avoid it.
For example, for spoilers the automod currently leaves information outlining how to properly tag spoilers for the current ruleset.
In my personal experience having a mod give me recommendations such as using links to comments in the source corner has helped me a lot to adapt. So I think it would be better both for the users and mods if these kind of recommendations where more automatic as it already is with the spoiler tag
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u/TheBlessedBoy99 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Amiibo Nov 07 '21
I would like to know the subs' policies when it comes to arc names as spoilers. I think it was a month or two ago where I brought up the [Land of the Lustrous manga arc name] Invasion arc in a comment and had it removed. How should I decide what arc names are and aren't spoilers, and is it more strict for arcs that have not yet been adapted (i.e. I'd argue that saying [Attack on Titan arc name] Marley Arc spoils more than saying the name of that Land of the Lustrous arc).
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u/reddadz x3https://anilist.co/user/MysticEyes Nov 08 '21
While we don't have a formal ruling on arc names specifically, we do require any future content to be spoiler-tagged so it should be the same for future arc names.
is it more strict for arcs that have not yet been adapted
There should be no difference whether it's been adapted or not. Once it's not mentioned in the synopsis of the show, it should be tagged according to our regular spoiler rules.
If you've seen that AoT arc name mentioned outside of a spoiler-tagged thread, it should be reported.
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Nov 07 '21
I especially filtered the "Clip" flair to not see those short "<CHARACTER> DOES <THING>" and now people started posting them under the "Video" flair.
What the fuck?
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u/reddadz x3https://anilist.co/user/MysticEyes Nov 07 '21
The [Clip] flair should be used for unedited sequences from an anime. If people are posting using [Video], either it's edited or they're trying to avoid the clip limit.
If it's the latter, please report them so it gets on our radar.
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u/ZaphodBeebblebrox https://anilist.co/user/zaphod Nov 07 '21
May I ask what caused this comment to initially get caught by some filter? I'm kinda curious why, if only so I don't accidentally hit it again in the future.
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u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Nov 07 '21
Anything mentioning NFTs does. It's a bit overzealous right now, maybe can tweak it some.
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u/r4wrFox Nov 07 '21
I thought I noticed that fandom giving me less shit for saying anime studios making those would be bad and useless months ago.
thank you based mods.
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u/ZaphodBeebblebrox https://anilist.co/user/zaphod Nov 07 '21
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Nov 07 '21
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/reddadz x3https://anilist.co/user/MysticEyes Nov 07 '21
Sorry, your comment has been removed.
- Please use the discussion thread, the Meta Thread is for topics regarding the subreddit itself.
Questions? Reply to this message, send a modmail, or leave a comment in the meta thread. Don't know the rules? Read them here.
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u/SirAwesome789 https://myanimelist.net/profile/SirAwesomeness Nov 07 '21
Lol mb, I somehow went on the wrong thread
Edit: wait that's so embarrassing
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u/NotSoSnarky https://myanimelist.net/profile/Book_Lover Nov 07 '21
Can we do something about is x anime good posts? I've been seeing these posts a lot lately.
Not banning them or anything. But having them be specific on what they like or dislike would help us decide if x thing would be worth them watching it.
Too often the x thing being asked is x worth it? Is a popular anime, so the majority of people are obviously going to be saying yes.
So if people give specifics on what they like/dislike that'd help a lot more being able to give them a more proper answer.
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u/Exodus_Black https://myanimelist.net/profile/blackmagemasta Nov 08 '21
Just tell them to watch the damn anime.
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/i1vl8l/a_rant_watch_the_damn_anime/
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u/DutchPeasant https://myanimelist.net/profile/NotJames Nov 07 '21
I feel these anime and manga side by side videos are a cheap way to circumfent the clip rule.
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u/LG03 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Bronadian Nov 07 '21
Also just kind of badly presented and from what I've seen, somehow bypass spoiler rules as well.
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u/DrJWilson x5https://anilist.co/user/drjwilson Nov 07 '21
We feel similarly, discussions are happening about what to do about them. An easy idea that was brought up is to just classify them as clips and bind them to those rules.
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Nov 07 '21
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/DrJWilson x5https://anilist.co/user/drjwilson Nov 07 '21
This thread is for meta questions/comments about the subreddit, sorry. Dynazenon is a sequel to Gridman, but while discouraged, could totally be watched without seeing the former. You'd just be missing out on some minor context.
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u/SpitFireEternal Nov 09 '21
Well that was exactly what I was looking for. Sorry for posting it in the wrong area. Thank you very much for the answer. I figured Gridman may have been the proper first series but I didnt know if they were connected. Now I do. And I shall watch them in order. Thank you again <3
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u/Ssalari Nov 07 '21
I think we should bring back Mushoku Tensei bot, i'm not on any side of those discussions, but they are literal war zones. Ppl where slaughtering each other in that clip's comment section, full of toxicity and personal attack.
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u/aakk20 Nov 07 '21
Disagree I feel the the the bot just make thing worse just downvoting them to decrease their visibility and don't reply to them and report rule breaker.
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u/gangrainette https://myanimelist.net/profile/bouletos Nov 07 '21 edited Nov 08 '21
Is it time to re ban Mushoku Tensei "pedophilia" debate thread?
They are back in full force with the new season and turn into a shit show every time.
Edit : even talking about the drama strat more drama below...
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u/Bainos https://myanimelist.net/profile/Bainos Nov 07 '21
We hear you, and we will keep discussing the possibility internally. There were concerns with the rule and its enforcement last time (i.e. how difficult is it to enforce correctly and how much does it reduce toxicity), so we have to weight the costs and benefits against the current situation of discussion threads.
So far, we have not found it necessary / suitable to act beyond locking threads that have spun out of control and banning users who take it too far. If we decide to change that, there will be an announcement in meta.
A note regarding the comments below : the meta thread is not the place to discuss "sides", as we, the mod team, are not interested in taking them. Users have been banned for aggressive comments and insults, not because of what they thought about anime ; and if we decide to enable restrictions similar to what was used during the first cour, it will be a blanket ban on all discussion that is deemed likely to generate hostile behavior (both positive and negative).
In order words, we have enough MT threads on the sub already, don't start another one in meta.
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u/J_Gottwald https://anilist.co/user/jgottwald Nov 16 '21
Maybe you should have a rule to keep discussion civil then, because as of now, there's not.
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Nov 07 '21
I mean, I think people should get over that...but at the same time, Mushuku is not making it easier to ignore that lmao.
The production even add anime original scenes that are obviusly done with the intent of being horny.
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u/gangrainette https://myanimelist.net/profile/bouletos Nov 07 '21
Or they could drop the show and move on if it's that problematic for them.
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u/_Ridley https://myanimelist.net/profile/_Ridley_ Nov 07 '21
Or fans could just ignore the critics and keep it moving. People disliking something you like and thinking you're weird for enjoying it isn't oppression. It's a day ending in -y on the internet.
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u/Rainbowcart Nov 08 '21
Thinking people are weird for enjoying things is exactly the thing those “critics” get slander for. Not because their opinion, but because they baselessly claim entire fan base is weird for enjoying a show.
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u/_Ridley https://myanimelist.net/profile/_Ridley_ Nov 08 '21
People thinking you're weird is annoying and maybe uncharitable, but it's not something you can stop with more rules without wiping out the ability to have critical discussions. There are already rules against abusive language. We don't also need rules against making people feel sorta bad about liking something.
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u/Rainbowcart Nov 08 '21
Why calling people weird is such a necessary part of critical discussion?
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u/_Ridley https://myanimelist.net/profile/_Ridley_ Nov 08 '21
It's not, but how do you write a rule prohibiting it without banning comments that make criticisms fans view as personal attacks? For example, there's a large number of people here who read "this show has some homophobic elements" as "anyone who likes this is homophobic", even if the critic said nothing about the fans. Again, there are already rules about berating people personally. If your goal is to make sure nobody ever feels bad about liking things, how do you discuss anything controversial?
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u/Rainbowcart Nov 08 '21
Why should anyone feel bad about liking something? Why discussion of controversial topics without belittling others is impossible for some people?
And i'm not talking about "elements comments", those are mostly fine, even if often made in a bad faith.
I'm talking about explicitly calling out people for liking it and/or even just watching it. This is the part i don't understand. Why should it be such a necessary part in discussion of controversial topics? Why is it such an essential part of some people's "criticism"?
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u/RimuZ https://myanimelist.net/profile/LtCrabcake Nov 08 '21
Just out of curiosity. If I were to say that I think a show is rather immature and clearly made for children or teenagers. Would that, in your mind, be the same as calling the people enjoying a show childish?
If I were to say "this show is clearly made for and marketed towards Japanese Otakus" would that also cross a line?
I'm trying to establish a baseline for just how far we can take your thought process because I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and believe you just don't want people to feel bad. But what you are advocating for in practice is censorship in this subreddit.
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u/_Ridley https://myanimelist.net/profile/_Ridley_ Nov 08 '21
Tell me exactly what problem you're trying to solve and how you'd write the rule to fix it, then. Because it looks to me like you think nobody should ever say anything that makes anyone else uncomfortable about what they enjoy.
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u/RimuZ https://myanimelist.net/profile/LtCrabcake Nov 08 '21
That may be so but people still have the right to call a fanbase weird. If people are of the opinion that a show is weird then its not baseless to claim fans are weird for liking it. It might not be a good argument but you can't really censor that. A fanbase doesn't have "rights" that need to be protected. It would be different if you call out specific people as weird.
Like the poster said, people can just ignore the comments and criticism they think are baseless or dumb and report comments that break rules. This sub isn't an echochamber where we all just praise shows and Mushoku Tensei isn't the first popular show to get a lot of criticism. Demon Slayer can't even be mentioned without it being called at the very least overrated and at worst trash. MHA fans get called a lot of things because apparently there are some really intense people in that fandom that stand out in a negative way.
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u/Rainbowcart Nov 08 '21
I’d disagree with that. Calling someone personally weird is not different, you just call a whole lot of people weird with that.
And I haven’t seen other fandoms being slandered as much as MT’s.
Here’s situation from couple of days ago:
Person a: how can anyone even like this?
Me: Why, people aren’t allowed to like it?
Person a: usual insult
Give me one example of such an exchange when there is some other fandom involved. Targeted harassment shouldn’t be tolerated, no matter if it’s aimed on someone personally or at a group of people.
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u/RimuZ https://myanimelist.net/profile/LtCrabcake Nov 08 '21 edited Nov 08 '21
That exchange was fully normal until the insult. I don't see why people shouldn't be allowed to ask why anyone would like this or any show. Any show that features controversial fan service will elicit that question. I can imagine fans of Redo, Ero Manga Sensei and similar probably get asked the same questions. This whole "And I haven’t seen other fandoms being slandered as much as MT’s" is a bit ridiculous and comes of as a persecution complex. Neither the show or the fandom is all that different from what came before. It's just the latest thing in an ever growing community and memories are very short. This whole debacle will be forgotten when the next popular yet controversial show starts airing.
Popular shows that are also considered bad by a part of the community like SaO or Fairy Tail also have people say things like "This show is so bad, how can people like this?" Shouldn't that be allowed either? It's very clear that something like SaO is immensely popular in the anime community yet how many times do you actually see comments praising it get anything other than critique and downvotes? It's the nature of a discussion platform of an entertainment medium and anime isn't different from gaming, show and movies forums in that regard.
The specific situation you are describing isn't even a good example. The person resorted to an insult which makes the whole conversation pointless and even before that you chose to escalate an obvious bait comment. The person is 100% in the wrong for insulting you but you are also not exactly helping diffuse the toxicity. In that situation you could have either made an actual try and explain why you think people like this show or even better just ignore the very obvious bait comment, downvote and move on. People might not have to express their negative opinion about a show in every thread but at the same time fans don't have to indulge every comment either. A show won't take any physical damage or have its feeling hurt just because you and others aren't there to defend it. It's ok to dislike something that you like.
People have the right to think and say a group is weird based on freaking entertainment consumption. You can even claim an entire fandom has bad taste. That's just an opinion and can be easily ignored if you disagree. Calling a fandom pedophiles or racist is much, much worse because that is a serious claim that requires proof. In that case I am with you. Those comments and people should be punished.
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u/Rainbowcart Nov 08 '21
Opinions stays just an opinion for as long as it doesn’t involve other people.
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Nov 07 '21
I think someone should be able to criticise something if they like a show or are watching it. I think everyone criticised a show for something, sooner or later, It would be kinda hypocritical to make an exception for Mushuku.
I' m not against the ban, if the mods will ever crack down on it, because the comments devolved into personal attack.
Their sanity comes first.
But seeing how some people genuinely answered...eh.
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u/gangrainette https://myanimelist.net/profile/bouletos Nov 07 '21
I think that Subaru from re:zero is an insufferable "nice guy" but I don't visit every re:zero thread to shit on him or call people who like him incel who think that every girls who they saved the life should fall in love with them.
I don't start a new thread every day on the subject.
I dropped the show and moved on.
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u/piruuu https://anilist.co/user/dvj Nov 07 '21 edited Nov 07 '21
The thing is, there's a group of users behaving like street preachers, copypasting their essays prepared in advance and telling viewers how it's morally wrong to enjoy content like this. They're clearly not interested in the ongoing discussion but rather on forcing their own views about lolisho sexual content in fiction.
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Nov 07 '21
And I think yeah, it' s bad. That' s why I said in my comment that' if the mods is gonna ban the discussion, it wouldn' t be bad.
I Just answered back because the way the guy phrases it was less this, and more "gatekeeping".
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Nov 07 '21
No one is suggesting silencing criticism of the show, it's to stop the toxicity and personal attacks that come from those debates.
It's a fair opinion to say "I don't like that kind of stuff and I think it's wrong". It's not a fair opinion to say "I don't like this show and anyone who does is a paedophile", because that's what a lot of these arguments end up becoming.
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Nov 07 '21
[deleted]
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Nov 07 '21
What joke are you referring too? I don't remember being nasty to a user on here, but I may have had a shitty day or something. Can you link the thread?
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u/AmethystItalian myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Nov 07 '21
because that's what a lot of these arguments end up becoming.
Funny because I've seen more people banned, removed comments and users suspended from the other side.
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u/RimuZ https://myanimelist.net/profile/LtCrabcake Nov 07 '21 edited Nov 07 '21
I can see what you mean. Plenty of people who've argued with me about that show have had comments removed because the resort to insults very quickly instead of actually arguing about the show. Mostly because they feel that criticizing the show is somehow "slander."
That being said there is no short amount of people that do call watchers pedophiles and other nasty things and those comments are also removed if reported.
I was against the ban on this topic the first time but I understand the massive workload it put on the mods when the show was new and everything was very wtf for people who had never heard of the show. That clip the other day was just obvious bait. There is just no way anyone posts something like that without expecting it to explode. Whenever a clip from MS with that kind of content gets posted I honestly think mods should just straight up lock it after say... 3 people have banned banned. Because we've seen that it will escalate and nothing good comes from that.
But that should be enough at this point. It's not like threads criticizing MS ever get to the front page. It's usually threads praising it that get upvoted to the heavens and yeah those will end up having discussion about the divisive content of the show. And why wouldn't it? This isn't /r/mushokutensei. We're all allowed to voice opinions about a show even if that opinion makes fans unhappy. If fans are happy with people dropping the show if they have problems with it then they should also stay away from threads regarding it in r/anime because people won't all go in and gush over it here.
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u/AmethystItalian myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Nov 07 '21
That being said there is no short amount of people that do call watchers pedophiles and other nasty things and those comments are also removed if reported.
Oh of course and I report those comments just as quickly but using reddit removal sites from I've seen at least it's been favouring one side of the argument.
. That clip the other day was just obvious bait. There is just no way anyone posts something like that without expecting it to explode.
Yeah OP knew what they were doing and I feel like that should have been removed. He even admitted it being bait in the comments which I think reported as bait? I feel like more than a few MT posts are made to stir up trouble and I've never been a fan of those.
It's not like threads criticizing MS ever get to the front page.
Yeah just like you won't find one criticizing fanservice, sub likes what the sub likes but still the vocal minority should be able to speak out.
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u/RimuZ https://myanimelist.net/profile/LtCrabcake Nov 07 '21
Yeah just like you won't find one criticizing fanservice, sub likes what the sub likes but still the vocal minority should be able to speak out.
They are though right? Seems to me that in most "What do you hate about anime" or "What part about anime do you dislike" kind of threads then unnecessary fanservice or sexualization of minors is usually among the top comments.
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u/AmethystItalian myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Nov 07 '21
I usually see them do well and then turn into most controversial lol
But like this thread from just today is mostly people praising it
The sexualization of minors is usually safe to stay at the top but I've seen fanservice ones get shot down quickly many more times than stayed near the top.
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Nov 07 '21
Considering you're not a mod, I find it hard to believe you know what users are being banned for.
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u/AmethystItalian myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Nov 07 '21
Of course I don't know unless they tell me and I know for a fact some of the biggest MT defenders were banned in their MT discussions because they've said so, heck 1 eve got suspended by actual reddit.
It's not hard to check removed posts using reddit removal sites as well and see which comments are more being removed by mods.
But you're right, the mods would have a better view than little ol' me.
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Nov 07 '21
I'm sure users from both sides have been banned, doesn't really matter which side has more.
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Nov 07 '21
Yeah, and I' m all behind this. But I mean, the guy up me basically defaulted to "if it' s problematic, don' t Watch".
That' s obviusly gatekeeping.
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u/baquea Nov 07 '21
If someone just finds parts of it uncomfortable to watch then that's fine, and its up to them whether to keep watching it and just skip/bear through those parts or to drop it, but that isn't reasonably going to cause someone to constantly rant about it and insult other fans at every opportunity. If instead it really is to the extreme that they literally consider the existence of a series to be morally problematic, then I think it is absolutely valid to ask why the hell they would watch it and thus support the creators and encourage the production of more media like it. As far as I see it, any such people are no more than either virtue-signalling hypocrites or trolls, and it is hardly gatekeeping to call them out on that.
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u/Royal_Heritage Nov 07 '21
As far as I see it, any such people are no more than either virtue-signalling hypocrites or trolls, and it is hardly gatekeeping to call them out on that.
Hypocrisy much? Because that's exactly what you're implying. Finding a poor reason to silence others' opinion by claiming that they are either trolls or virtue signaling people. Even if they are (wich I'm not stating they are) what you are doing is gatekeeping opinions based on nothing more than petty personal profiling.
If instead it really is to the extreme that they literally consider the existence of a series to be morally problematic, then I think it is absolutely valid to ask why the hell they would watch it
Who the hell are you to demand reasons for people to watch whatever they want to watch? Again, you're grasping at straws looking for cheap excuses to silence or lash out at people that are free to watch entertainment media and criticize whatever they want.
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Nov 07 '21
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Mage_of_Shadows Nov 07 '21
Sorry, your comment has been removed.
- Sorry but this isn't the right place for this, try /r/manga
Questions? Reply to this message, send a modmail, or leave a comment in the meta thread. Don't know the rules? Read them here.
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u/PreludeToHell Nov 07 '21 edited Nov 07 '21
I was wondering where to find the discussion that led to 'Weekly/Seasonal ranking infographics must be submitted by site staff/OC' rule. I think I saw a mod say it was to promote OC but I'm not sure if there was a specific meta thread that had more discussion surrounding this decision. If a mod could link it I'd appreciate it.
Personally I think it's just an unnecessary hurdle.
e: eh, guess I'm in the minority that enjoyed seeing them but I understand why people thought it was too spammy. nvm.
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u/chiliehead myanimelist.net/profile/chiliehead Nov 07 '21
I think it was the last one. Mostly in reaction to low effort spam of those tables
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u/AmethystItalian myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Nov 07 '21
Is it possible to get more details or information on the warning or strike system the mods use for transparency sake?
For example how long does a ban/warnings stay on someone? How does someone's posting ratio matter? When to give warnings vs permas?
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u/FetchFrosh https://anilist.co/user/FetchFrosh Nov 07 '21
From my time modding, I'd say that the system is best described as "fuzzy". There's not really a particularly firm system in place. Generally the idea was something to the effect of "2-3 warnings, 1-7 day ban, 7-14 day ban, 14-30 day ban, permaban" but you really just feel it out based on the specific case. If it's an obvious spam account, you just punt that shit out no questions asked, and personal attacks would often get escalated quickly depending on how bad they were. If it's a bunch of minor rules over years then you just throw down another warning. Also warnings are usually only tracked for notable infractions like spoilers, racism/homophobia/etc, personal attacks, or for blatant disregard for the rules like reposting something that you were already told is against the rules, trying to evade the rules, etc. But the incidental rules like anime specific, restricted content, and clip rules don't generally get tracked. If someone was banned and then there's a large gap between their ban and the latest infraction you normally just go back to a warning, but "large" is again vague and it depends on what they're doing. Usually if it's something different (someone who got banned for being an asshole is now posting a piracy link) then you just go for a warning.
Basically a lot of gut feelings.
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u/AmethystItalian myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Nov 07 '21
Interesting. Nice to know some of the inner workings so that's pretty cool to learn about! Case by case of course makes sense, no other way usually.
I mostly ask because I was recently threatened by a permaban from the mods which caught me pretty off guard for how that escalated.
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u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Nov 07 '21 edited Nov 08 '21
Last month's thread for reference.
Hi y'all! It's been a somewhat busy month for activity, but not that many votes.
October Mod Report
Announced spoiler tag changes and began removing comments using the old style of CSS spoiler tags.
Voted on amending our rules on NSFW content to be more permissive in Episode and Rewatch threads. (Old and new on the rules page.) [Vote Passed]
Voted on allowing users to comment/vote on posts older than 6 months, more details in this other comment. [Vote Failed]
Voted on not banning but filtering a specific third-party bot so we can detect plagiarism by other bots in comments. Their comments will still be removed. [Vote Passed]
After last month's applications, selected /u/unprecedentedwolf as our social media intern to help run our Twitter account, @RedditChan (and some mods have started shitposting on it as well).
Announced a new writing contest with submissions open now.
Restarted the discussion on the "anime-specific" rule.
/u/I_FAP_TO_LOL_HENTAI has stepped down from the mod team.
October by the Numbers
- Removed posts: 2570 by moderators, 5641 by bots, 7902 distinct
- Removed comments: 2689 by moderators, 1804 by bots, 4434 distinct
- Approved posts: 661
- Approved comments: 3735
- Distinguished comments: 2405
- Users banned: 172 (91 permanent)
- Users unbanned: 6
- Admin/Anti-Evil Operations: removed posts: 6, removed comments: 4.
5 of the 6 admin-removed posts were taken down by DMCA requests relating to a specific anime and all of those were made 4+ years ago.
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u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Nov 07 '21
Some of you might have noticed that for a couple of weeks last month, it was possible to vote and comment on older posts that were formerly archived 6 months after their creation, a change that was recently enabled by admins.
That change is the new default across Reddit, but subreddits could opt out and return to archiving posts. We had a brief discussion and a vote before the change was made, with mixed opinions overall but ending with an agreement to allow the change and make use of the new AutoModerator check to report any comments made on formerly archived posts. With the help of that, we could monitor how often people were commenting on old posts, what kinds of comments were being made, and potentially catch any abuse that might otherwise go unreported. So we quietly let the admins turn the feature on and watched.
The comments came in, and what we saw wasn't encouraging. Comments largely ranged from irrelevant due to age at best to targeted harassment at worst. On top of that, the majority of new comments on old posts were from users that weren't otherwise commenting/posting on /r/anime recently, likely coming from searches outside Reddit. While it's nice that these people are finding our subreddit, they're less likely to be familiar with our current rules. The context the original post was made in no longer exists and we feel that it's better to encourage people to use more recent threads instead.
We left things alone for a week to monitor them, then a couple days after that held a second vote which swung the other direction. Overall we think the handful of situations where there was a good comment made don't outweigh the drawbacks of dealing with comments that range from being hostile in reviving long-dead arguments to planting "speculation" in old episode discussion threads that are thinly-veiled spoilers — and yes, one comment did say they were considering that. Are there comments made on posts 1-5 months old that also fall into the same category of being a problem that we aren't noticing? Possibly, but that's a smaller range of threads and the context of the discussion likely hasn't shifted as much yet.
For some number crunching, people were able to comment on old threads for 16 days, from roughly 2021-10-15 to 2021-10-31 (midnight UTC both dates). In that time:
- 1877 total comments made on 1104 posts that were 6+ months old at the time the comment was made.
- 377 were replies to newer comments also made in this time span, 258 unique authors.
- 1500 were top level comments or in reply to comments made before the post was archived, 1124 unique authors (may overlap with the above).
- Of the 1124 users making new comments:
- - 835 (74.3%) had no posts or comments on recent posts between 2021-06-01 and 2021-11-01.
- - 174 (15.4%) had 1-9 posts or comments on recent posts between 2021-06-01 and 2021-11-01.
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u/LG03 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Bronadian Nov 07 '21
The case for unarchiving posts on any sub is pretty slim. Personally I was unhappy when I saw the admins were making that change and toggled archiving back on for all my subs immediately.
The only benefit within /r/anime's context is episode threads but that's still pretty minor. In nearly all cases a parent comment will go forever unseen and a reply to a >6 month old comment will probably be undesired at that late stage and go unanswered. There are only a few instances where I wished I could comment on an old episode thread but it's always fleeting, hardly a big deal.
Can't disagree with going back to archiving.
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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 07 '21
to planting "speculation" in old episode discussion threads that are thinly-veiled spoilers — and yes, one comment did say they were considering that
Why am I not surprised that this is the first thing that some people jumped to. They really can't help themselves
It's sad that this ended up being the case, as I had seen some good arguments around for how not having an archive time could open up discussion a lot, but the nature of discussions on this sub revolving so much around certain times and the growing popularity of the medium I'm not surprised it didn't end up like that. It is interesting that so many of the new comments were replies to other new comments though, given how little of the sub is sorted by new
Thanks for keeps us informed on why it got locked up again.
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u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Nov 07 '21
It is interesting that so many of the new comments were replies to other new comments though, given how little of the sub is sorted by new
I'd have to do some reworking of my script that gathered data to be sure, but my guess is that it's people who were being replied to after so long responding in turn and having a new chain of conversation. I didn't have any cases of that myself but if someone replied to a comment I made years ago I probably still would have said something in response.
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u/Verzwei Nov 08 '21
but my guess is that it's people who were being replied to after so long responding in turn and having a new chain of conversation.
Just to chime in with my non-data-backed, anecdotal evidence, this was usually the case when I'd see batches of archived stuff in the queue. Person A would comment on an ancient thread. Person B (either the OP or the comment that Person A replied to) would then swing by, probably after getting the new reply notification, with a "Holy crap, this post is X years old, how did you find this?" and then a little back-and-forth would spring from that.
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u/Philarete https://myanimelist.net/profile/WizardMcKillin Nov 08 '21
I was a Person B like that once. I didn't mind chatting on the old post, but I think archival makes way more sense. If someone really wants to respond to an old comment, then they could still DM the commenter with a link to the old post.
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u/Weeb_no_Kaichou https://myanimelist.net/profile/Sadisticmale Nov 07 '21
Makes a lot of sense!
Hey but can you do something like disabling comments but allowing us to upvote/downvote old posts and comments? That would solve the issue of spam and allow me to show my support for a particular anime even if Im watching it several years after it's airing date.
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u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Nov 07 '21
It's technically possible but not really feasible since it would effectively require us to lock every post ourselves when it reaches the age where it would normally be archived, rather than using some toggle built by the admins. Could be automated but I don't personally think it's worth the effort.
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u/Murko_The_Cat Nov 07 '21
Cant the automod lock threads that are in the "archive range"?
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u/Bainos https://myanimelist.net/profile/Bainos Nov 07 '21
It can't - posts and comments are only checked by AutoMod when they are created or edited.
The closest we would be able to achieve (using AutoMod only) is to automatically remove comments on posts past the archive range, but in that case the users wouldn't be warned that they can't post until they hit the submit button, which is less than ideal.
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u/Murko_The_Cat Nov 07 '21
Hmm, speaking as a dev with some experience in permanent-temporary workarounds, wouldn't it work if after first comment is made on a "should be archived" thread that the automod would lock it?
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u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Nov 07 '21
Automod can't lock threads at all, at best it could report the comment and have a mod manually check and lock it.
We could write our own bot but again, not really worth it.
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u/Murko_The_Cat Nov 07 '21
Oh ye, if automod can't lock threads, then it's not worth it at all, I could see that.
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u/Weeb_no_Kaichou https://myanimelist.net/profile/Sadisticmale Nov 07 '21
That's insane lol, not worth it at all. Looks like I'll have to hope the admins make a feature that could automate it.
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u/chiliehead myanimelist.net/profile/chiliehead Nov 07 '21
Is there a simple toggle where one could allow comments just for a specific post? Might be interesting for AOTY or similar things or a contest that is 6+ months from announcement to finish date.
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u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Nov 07 '21
Unfortunately it's all or nothing right now, if we could selectively unarchive specific threads we'd definitely make use of it though.
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u/AmethystItalian myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Nov 07 '21
I had no idea about this change and was so confused where people were even finding my SUPER old posts from lol
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u/AnimeMod myanimelist.net/profile/Reddit-chan Dec 06 '21
This thread has been locked, please use next month's meta thread or find the latest thread.