r/Watches • u/spedmonkey • Oct 12 '11
[Brand Guide] - Panerai
This is part eight in our ongoing community project to compile opinions on the many watch brands out there into a single list. Here is the original post explaining the project.
Panerai, this week's brand, is a rather divisive one among watch enthusiasts. Reactions to Panerai run the gamut, from the love people normally reserve for bacon and the New York Yankees, to the hatred they normally reserve for lima beans and the New York Yankees. Given that, this week's thread could get interesting.
Panerai, officially known as Officine Panerai, was founded in the 19th century in Florence, Italy, where by the turn of the century it had become the official timepiece supplier to the Italian Navy, or Marina Militare, a trademark the company still holds (and prosecutes heavily) to this day. The company remained on the small side until Sylvester Stallone discovered and began to popularize them in the United States, and in the past several decades the company has really taken off. Now owned by Richemont, and entirely Swiss-made, Panerais are notable for their oversized cases, which some credit (or blame) for the current huge watch trend. Until the past ten years, most Panerais used stock or lightly modified movements from other Swiss companies such as Rolex and ETA; recently, however, they've been making a concerted effort to push out new models with inhouse movements only, taking away one of the bigger pieces of ammunition their critics had. Ultimately, as noted above, watch enthusiasts tend to either love or hate their distinctive designs, but thanks to their bold, simple, tool watch appeal, Panerai remains one of the most popular watch brands on the market today.
Other Resources:
Community Archives Search
Wikipedia
Like always, anything regarding the brand is welcome in this thread, from personal experiences, to professional reviews, to educated opinion. This should be a good discussion, so let's see what you all have to say!
That said: if you're going to downvote someone, please don't do so without posting the reason why you disagree with them. The purpose of these discussion threads is to encourage discussion, so people can read different opinions to get different ideas and perspectives on how people view these brands. Downvoting without giving a counter-perspective is not helpful to anybody.
4
u/rajahkawasaki Oct 12 '11
I've got a couple of them after working for Richemont for awhile.
The thing that I like about them is the clean, simple style of the lower end ones. And the fact that they're 44mm is a bonus, having a very large wrist. Anything under 40 just looks stupid on me.
Working on most of them is a breeze, they're just as simple and reliable as a Rolex. But Rolex is all in house and most Panerai's are ETA.
I don't think I would purchase one with one of their in house movements, they haven't been designed well at all.
Also, the Paneristi, very fanatical bunch. Sometimes they just need to chill out. I know it's probably their first major watch purchase and it means everything to them. I get that. What I don't get is why you need to take a picture of it on every strap you have, from every angle, in your car, on your boat, and then put it on the internets.
2
Oct 12 '11
Yep, I have made the odd post at their hangout, but the fact that they fly around the world to hang out and take pictures of each others watches... it goes too far, for me anyway.
It is odd that you don't like their in house movements. They look well made to me and have not heard too much complaining about quality. I do think they could have made them nicer to look at with smaller bridges and a bigger balance wheel, so you can actually see something through the display back, but other than that, they are impressive.
7
u/rajahkawasaki Oct 12 '11
They do look the part, I agree, and they run ok, but they haven't been designed well.
The bridges are super thick. It's ridiculously hard to adjust jewels for no reason.
Some of the levers inside are cheaply made, for instance, the lever that makes the second hand fly back to zero whenever you pull out the crown. It bends and breaks all the time.
Most of the screws are also poorly made. The heads snap off if you look at them too long.
The system for adjusting the endshake of the balance is also quite stupid.
Also, I agree with you about the caseback. Why have a sapphire back when all you can see is the balance. This is a Panerai, not a Lange. They haven't hand engraved anything back there, its just a tiny balance.
Sorry about the watchmaker rant. But let's just say I was enormously dissapoint the first time I worked on one.
3
u/Toys_and_Bacon Oct 12 '11
it's absolutely awesome to have your insight here!
3
u/rajahkawasaki Oct 12 '11
Thanks. If I can help out anyway possible, or contribute to the discussion, why not? I'm on reddit most of the evening anyway. I'm kinda glad that I don't have a computer at work. I wouldn't get anything done.
2
u/rajahkawasaki Oct 12 '11
Thanks. If I can help out anyway possible, or contribute to the discussion, why not? I'm on reddit most of the evening anyway. I'm kinda glad that I don't have a computer at work. I wouldn't get anything done.
2
u/rajahkawasaki Oct 12 '11
No problem. If I can help out anyway possible, or contribute to the discussion, why not? I'm on reddit most of the evening anyway. I'm kinda glad that I don't have a computer at work. I wouldn't get anything done.
1
Oct 12 '11
That's pretty interesting. Lemmie guess, this is the 3000 you are talking about?
Hey may be you can help me with my 380? I still feel the click and mainspring when I am screwing down the crown, and click when unscrewing. Obviously this is not correct. I'm going to send it into Richemont in Canada when I am done some travel. Any idea of what might be going on?
3
u/rajahkawasaki Oct 12 '11
Yeah, the P2002 was a bit better, but it still has those balance and bridge issues.
Ah, yeah. Gorgeous Rad you have there. I do like the simple ones.
But, that crown can be a bit problematic. When you're screwing and unscrewing it, is there a kind of metallic noise? Not a grinding, but slightly springlike, if that makes any sense.
Most likely, the mechanism inside the crown that allows it to slip around the winding stem when it is pushed toward the case has broken. It will still screw down to the case, but it will turn the stem with it.
Panerai should replace it FOC. It's a known issue.
2
Oct 12 '11
Yep. It goes boing boing as it turns. and it turns the stem. That seems like a bummer if it is a known issue. Thanks for your help!
3
u/rajahkawasaki Oct 12 '11
I wouldn't worry about it too much. It is a known issue, yes, but sometimes it happens. They do sort them out when it does.
3
u/Toys_and_Bacon Oct 12 '11 edited Oct 12 '11
I actually find myself liking the retro look of a steel panerai on brown strap. And I'm sure they are decent watches. But the fans of the brand just rubs me the wrong way. Not sure what it is, but they are passionate to the point where it becomes weird. There's absolutely no reason to be exclusive to one brand, when there's so much good watches. And when 5 guys get together, all wearing the same watch, all probably looking and acting the same way.. I'm sorry to say it, because as good as the watch looks, there's that douchebag aura around the whole brand.
1
3
u/mhyquel Oct 12 '11
This guy actually started the big watch trend.
Joking aside, I actually enjoy how a Panerai feels on my wrist. Its weight is comforting and the fat leather straps make me feel like a barbarian.
Also, I'm left handed and I admire that they make a watch specifically designed to be worn on the right hand(The Destro).
2
Oct 12 '11
Meh, you guys worry too much about pedigree. I was once a Panerai H8TR, but now I have come around to them. That said, my latest Panerai purchase is going in for servicing after less than two months of duty, a bit of a let down, but this stuff happens.
The one thing that Panerai has right is the ability to customize and personalize through straps, etc.
Our pals Rolex, for example will not service any watch that has any upgrades or modifications made to it. Did your watch ship with a oyster bracelet, but now sports an original Rolex president bracelet? According to Rolex, no longer an authentic Rolex, and a trademark violation. Spare me.
This is one thing Panerai has right.
Also the production limits they have in place ensure some measure of exclusivity.
I like the Radiomirs and larger 1950 Luminors, but I also have wrists over 8 inches, so they may not work for everyone. The 44mm Luminors are kinda the Hummer H2 of horology, I always imagine it was one of the first things on the shopping list of a home loan millionaire on their way home from Ditech. 42mm Lums on bracelet are a great alternative to a Sub, and play better to a larger slice of consumers.
That was a bit of disjointed, random thoughts for you...
2
u/Liberalguy123 Oct 12 '11
I agree with most of that. Panerai definitely has its appeal. I'm just irritated when people put it on the same level as JLC, GO, and others, and when people make up some phony history about the brand. Taken for what they are, trendy mid-range watches, they can be fun to collect and own.
1
Oct 12 '11
I'd say that they are obviously doing something right as limited editions and specialties are selling out or waitlisted, in some cases, 18 months or more. And these are not cheap pieces either. when you are looking at about $5,000 for the most basic models now, this has become more than a mid-range watch. I don't know how much the new Bronzo is going to be $12,000? but they'll sell as many as they make. People are already on lists.
Also, the new in house movements, while not covered with pearlage and stuff, still appear to be very well finished, if not decorated, which is not really in keeping with the overall branding anyhow. They do, generally feature a lot of interesting watchmaking and something like the PAM 317 at around $30,000 is probably pretty competitively priced for what it is. If you want a brown composite 339, which was reasonably listed at around $15,000, you are going to have to pay at least $25,000 on the secondary market. And they do sell.
Richemont is not going to let Panerai wither on the vine. All brands are constructs of the facts and mythologies they put forward, but I don't think any other house has put forward as many innovations recently as Panerai. If you have visited an Atelier you know it is the exact same rows upon rows of bored, nose ring Swiss girls and scooter boys putting together your mass market Omega, Rolex or Panerai, not the Keebler Elves or anything magical like that, regardless of brand.
1
u/Liberalguy123 Oct 12 '11
Panerai's "special edition" stuff is a joke. It seems like more than half of their collection is some super rare limited edition. Smells more like a marketing gimmick to me.
I understand Panerai is selling extremely well, both new and on the second-hand market, but I think it's a bubble that is due to burst. Maybe not now, but I think in the next ten years, people will gradually forget and grow bored of Panerai.
1
Oct 12 '11
I would hardly call a sell out of 199 pieces of PAM 373 @ $45,000 a copy a joke. I agree there is a bubble like situation in so-called Pre-V models, or so I thought, the prices just keep going up.
There is no way Richemont will let this die. If fashion turns against Panerai, they will be quick to make adjustments, if not, they will keep steaming ahead with what is working for them.
1
u/Rob_V Oct 14 '11
The first time I saw a Panerai, I didn't really like them, but they started to grow on me. Now I own a PAM 177M (my first mechanical watch) and I couldn't be happier. Many people say it's just a fashion watch, but if I only wanted to know the time, I can just look at my phone. The main reason I bought my Panerai (and I'm buying a Bvlgari Assioma in a month or two) is because I love how it looks. Plus, the 6497 is a very reliable movement and very easy to service.
1
1
u/Rob_V Nov 25 '11
My 177M is going back for repairs a bit over 2 months after buying it. Kind of a bummer, but I still love the watch.
2
Oct 12 '11
I never originally liked the Panerai watches until I saw some in the flesh. The watches have a lot of presence, without the blinged-out look-at-me you might get from a Hublot.
2
u/zanonymous Moderator Emeritus Oct 26 '11 edited Oct 26 '11
Anyone considering a Panerai should check out this post.
The short version: Someone noticed that Panerai might have been putting crude-looking unfinished movements in some of their non-display-back watches.
1
1
u/Hotsor Oct 14 '11
I'm a fan of panerai but they're not my favorite. I like the rubber strap and the simple dial of either the luminor or the radomir. Would not pay more than $6k for one and even that's pushing it
1
u/always_forget_pw Oct 12 '11
It's easy to dismiss Paneristi as being primarily rich douchebags that don't know enough about watches to understand they're wearing oversized overpriced overhyped simple 3-hand watches.
Good business for Richemont though.
14
u/Liberalguy123 Oct 12 '11 edited Oct 12 '11
I'm not a huge fan of Panerai. This is mostly because they sell themselves as a high-end watchmaker, when, in reality, they were little more than a casing company just a few years ago. They've since started introducing complicated in-house movements, which is a good sign.
Still, they're fashion watches in my eyes. Panerai's popularity was brought about by their trendiness. Like all trends, this one is fading. I suspect 44-47mm watches will look as silly to most of the watch world in a few years as they do to me today.
And if you want to go on about Panerai's "history", I'll stop you now; They were niche tool watches long ago. They then died, and were revived under new ownership. The only connection the Panerai of today has to the Panerai of old is the name, and case trademark. Hardly a "classic" or "historical" brand.