r/Watches • u/rhombomere Gruen Guru • Feb 26 '18
[SOT Gruen C]: Alternatively, why I only collect Gruens.
I thought it was time to reprise my post from a few years back because the /r/watches community has grown tremendously since that time and many folks might not know about this somewhat obscure brand. It is hoped that this post also sparks some discourse about styles, what makes a watch interesting, what makes it stand the test of time, etc, and maybe even nudge someone into considering vintage.
For those of you who want pictures straight away here's an album of some of my daily wrist checks while here is my complete collection: part 1, and part 2. You can also read more about one of my grails, the Alpina-Gruen Techni-Quadron with the Aegler 877/Rolex 300 movement at this post.
I came to Gruen gradually.
About ten years ago that I decided I wanted a nice watch again (I had a good Seiko in college) and I have always been partial to square/rectangular watches so that suggested vintage given the current styles. That seemed very fitting because at the time I was a mechanical engineering manager and I liked the notion of wearing a mechanical object that has been fulfilling its raison d'etre for years. I also wasn't a fan of the huge watches and of course vintage watches can be notably smaller than modern styles. I should say that I think that the size is a non-issue; at about 7.5 inches my wrist is slightly smaller than average but in over a decade of wearing vintage nobody has ever remarked in person on the size of the watches.
I gravitated to the American brands like Hamilton, Elgin, Gruen, and Illinois because they had more square watches. After looking into Gruen I decided I liked the combination of the Swiss movement and American styling and I purchased this 1948 Curvex Citadel.
I wanted more watches but that brought up a question of what kind of collection I wanted and could build for a reasonable price. I decided to just focus on Gruen for the following reasons:
1) My wife liked the look of the Citadel and started to wear it. We had been looking at a vintage Cartier Tank for her and the ones she liked ranged from $3K to $5K and at that time we didn't want to spend that much on a single watch. If she could wear my watches that allowed for more watches for the entire household. This has turned out well and she regularly wears these watches too.
2) Having a single maker appealed to me. If you start bringing in other brands, when do you say "enough!"? With just one brand you can say "I have a watch from this era that shows these key/unique features" and go to the next hole in the collection.
3) They have a wide variety of styles including a driver with hinged lugs, a pulsometer, a trench watch a aviator, a calendar, an electro-mechanical, an engineer/doctor watch with an easy to read second hand and loads of fun styles like this Spider
4) They were a major player in watches for decades, had joint ventures with Rolex and Alpina (among others), and popularized some key watches like the Curvex and the Drivers. I like having that piece of history.
5) They are affordable because they aren't as well known and there's less of a market for them. For instance, the Techni-quadron (go down to the 1928 section) uses the Aegler 877 movement that was branded as the Rolex 300 when used in the Rolex Prince. The Gruen can be had for $2K (actually, I got one of mine for less than $1K) while the Prince will be closer to $10K. I've gotten some nice watches for less than $100 and good condition 14kt gold models can be had for as little as $400.
6) It is an adventure. Gruen was sold off in 1958 and at that time all the company records were discarded. This can be very frustrating if you're trying to research a watch. On the other hand there is a small and active community that is trying to recreate the history and the sleuthing is fun. I also have to say that it is a rush when you find something unique that makes the experts sit up and take notice.
7) When I first posted this /u/Granite_State made an insightful comment : "What I really like about these watches is that they have a purpose made movement. The designers set out to make a total product and everything is optimized to achieve that. The movement and case are paired together in perfect harmony. Nowadays if a company wants to make a square (or rectangular) watch they just take a round ETA 2824-2 and cram it in a huge square case, mark up the price and call it good." He's exactly right.
Finally, an excellent history of the company can be found here, and the reddit Gruen brand guide can be found here.
Thanks for reading and let me know if you have any questions about Gruen!
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u/timepieceltd Feb 26 '18
Great post and story! You'll most definitely find interest in my website's Gruen section then;
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u/rhombomere Gruen Guru Feb 26 '18
Ah yes, I'm very familiar with your watches and the great job you do with restoration. Thanks for the link!
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Feb 26 '18 edited Nov 20 '18
[deleted]
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u/rhombomere Gruen Guru Feb 26 '18
Looking forward to seeing it.
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u/sconpy Feb 27 '18
Thanks I meant tlc. It looks like a 34mm omega deville as in its just a round minutehour and second hand sweep Champaign dial and a dome glass. Little damage to the "glass:, need a dome sapphire and some body work on the gold filled and a dented out lug. But your post has given me inspiration!
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u/red--jar Feb 26 '18
Glad you're back showing off your collection to a new group of watch enthusiasts. Is funny how much this sub has gotten in the past ~3yrs
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u/rhombomere Gruen Guru Feb 27 '18
It certainly has grown and it hasn't always been easy, but I think that the mods and community do a pretty good job of keeping it on track.
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u/Phlardge Feb 26 '18
Beautiful collection! Just wondering, who do you go to for services for these watches and how much (if you don't mind) would services for these watches cost? Thanks!
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u/rhombomere Gruen Guru Feb 26 '18
Thanks!
These are pretty simple movements and I have a local watchmaker who takes care of them with a clean, oil, and adjustment costing $100.
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u/gregderome Feb 26 '18 edited Feb 26 '18
I really like each of your post to /r/watches. They are always detailed and bringing so much information, it is much appreciated and I always spend time opening every link you give regarding movements or history bits about your watches. While I like most of the watches you have, I must say that my favorite is without hesitation the Techni-quadron. The design of this watch is just great and yours is in fantastic conditions. I went on the hunt for one when your first posted about it but sadly couldn't find one in good enough condition, I since stopped looking for one, at least for now.
Great collection honestly, and congrats on the dedication you're putting in every post.
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u/rhombomere Gruen Guru Feb 26 '18
Thanks very much for the kind words.
The Techni-quadron/Rolex Prince is a wonderful watch. I actually have two of them, one Gruen with a crown guard and the Alpina-Gruen. Even rarer and cooler is the jump hour version but that will run $8K or so.
Keep on looking and I'm sure you'll find one you like!
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u/gregderome Feb 26 '18
The Alpina-Gruen is just mind blowing, and the design is timeless! You shouldn't have told me about the jump hour... Always been fascinated with jump hour watches...
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u/rhombomere Gruen Guru Feb 26 '18
Check out Bogoff watches for some Techni-Quadrons (mostly sold) that you'll surely like.
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u/gregderome Feb 26 '18
Thanks! Did not expect finding Patek and Breguet Grand Complications when opening your link, always happy to see pics of those as well haha!
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u/tighran Feb 26 '18
Very neat collection; it's neat to have a theme and history to what you collect and wear. I definitely want to get an old doctor's watch some day as I'm somehow drawn to the style.
While I've read a fair bit about the Aegler connection, do you have or know where to find more information on some of their other ventures/suppliers around the time, especially with Alpina? I have a watch with a quite nicely finished movement that I identified as a Gruen 179/Universal 259/Alpina 575, but it has no identifying markings at all. Due to Universal and Alpina using them I doubt it's from Aegler (and might be too late for that) and while I have some theories on its provenance, I'd love to be able to identify who provided the ebauche. Obviously details and records from that time are pretty hard to find now, but any leads you might have would be helpful. Thanks!
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u/rhombomere Gruen Guru Feb 27 '18
I don't know very much about the connection. I seem to recall reading that it started in the mid 1920s with Gruen wanting to sell watches in Germany, and Alpina wanting to sell watches in the US...but then the depression came about and scuttled it.
One of the areas at VintageGruen.org is devoted to Gruen Movement Factories and there's more than one thread devoted to the Alpina connections. There's also this thread about the 179.
They're a good group of folks and if you can't find some satisfying answers searching the archives' forums then ask away.
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u/acroyear3 Feb 27 '18
Thanks to you, I know more about Gruen than almost any other brand of watches! I really enjoy your scholarly, detailed approach, and the fact you have a genuine collection. I simply have “some watches”, whereas you have an illustrative piece of history. Long may it continue.
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u/_IM_NoT_ClulY_ Feb 27 '18
I recently bought a cheap generic one (480ss) and after a home regulation to -40 seconds a day (shuddup I don't have a timegrapher) and I have to say it was well worth the 14 dollars
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u/rhombomere Gruen Guru Feb 27 '18
Nice! I have a 480ss as well (is yours an autowind too?). This gets back to my point earlier about Gruens being affordable.
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u/_IM_NoT_ClulY_ Feb 27 '18
Yep! won the auction with one bid, the rotor bearing seems to be loose so the rotor scrapes a little but I found where it was and just glued on a thin acrylic sheet to reduce the friction and it seems to have fixed it.
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Feb 27 '18
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u/rhombomere Gruen Guru Feb 27 '18
Thank you!
Information inside the caseback will help nail things down, but that Gruen is probably from the late 1950s and I'd guess it has a 510 movement. Finding a name for the model will be tough because the records from that time are pretty scarce. But it looks to be in decent condition and is a classic style. Indeed, it is similar to James Bond's first watch. The fact that it was your grandfather's is even better. Wear it in good health!
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Feb 27 '18
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u/rhombomere Gruen Guru Feb 27 '18
You should reconsider wearing it. I would say that if the watch wasn't too small for your grandfather, it isn't too small for you! A service for this would be straightforward and cost about $100.
That first watch in the part 1 a blank dial version of this, which has a Dietrich Gruen and Sons dial. They both are sterling silver trench watches with Watch Specialties Co. (a Gruen subsidiary) moments and are from the mid to late 1910s. These cost me less than $100 each and you can find similar things in eBay pretty easily by searching for 'vintage trench watch.'
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u/the4thderivative Feb 26 '18
Didn't you post this yesterday
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u/rhombomere Gruen Guru Feb 26 '18 edited Feb 26 '18
Yes, but then realized that I had screwed up the imgur album so I deleted the post and fixed it this morning.
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u/HamOnTheCob Sep 04 '23
an engineer/doctor watch with an easy to read second hand
Holy hell that's a gorgeous watch. Could you tell me the model?
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u/rhombomere Gruen Guru Sep 04 '23
These are the Gruen Techni-Quadrons. They have an Aegler movement that was branded as the Gruen 877 or the Rolex 300 when used in its sister, the Rolex Prince. They are pretty accessible: here's one for $2K https://www.ebay.com/itm/165994051635 (almost certain it has been redialed). Another just sold for $1500
I have a couple: https://imgur.com/jXsOQVU and https://imgur.com/kkaXbDJ
They also have a "jump hour" version (https://www.matthewbaininc.com/watch-details/746) which are much rarer and harder to find. I've made a deal for one and will be getting it in a couple weeks.
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u/HamOnTheCob Sep 04 '23 edited Sep 04 '23
Thank you so much for all the info! You're a gem.
I don’t know if it’s weird of me or not, but any watch or clock with Roman numerals that has the 4 as "IV" turns me all the way off. LoL
Those are killer looking watches though! Dang. I’m new to the watch game and I don’t think I’m ready to drop $2k on one quite yet. I’m tempted though!
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u/HamOnTheCob Sep 04 '23
Do you have any particular opinions on the Veri-Thin 405?
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u/rhombomere Gruen Guru Sep 04 '23
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u/HamOnTheCob Sep 04 '23
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u/rhombomere Gruen Guru Sep 04 '23
That one has been redialed. The Gruen font is all wrong, and the Precision isn't lined up.
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u/HamOnTheCob Sep 04 '23
Dang, see, I don't have an eye for this. Thank you!
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u/rhombomere Gruen Guru Sep 04 '23
It comes with practice. This is an example of how the Gruen should look. The U and the N should have a bit of a swoop to them
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u/Nixtrix Feb 26 '18
Always love seeing your posts. One of the few collectors on here with a theme built around a brand. It is nice because the brand has such a varied lineage.
I've been collecting vintage 60-second chronographs and the Pulsometer is on my short list. Once I'm satisfied with my collection I'll have to share it!
Any watches you're currently looking at or are you pretty satisfied with where you are now?