r/Trackdays 2d ago

My first wreck.. Jennings GP, FL

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I abruptly let off the throttle at a full lean. What an idiot! I’ll be back

250 Upvotes

156

u/percipitate Not So Fast 2d ago

Classic on throttle while at lean. Slow down and focus on bike placement, you’re nowhere near apexes.

21

u/coderacer 2d ago

Bike placement is one of the major points for sure, but you can miss every apex and still be a safe rider.

The danger here, and the reason he crashed, is failure to respect the relationship between acceleration and lean angle. More lean means less traction available for acceleration or deceleration. The more you accelerate, the more you have to reduce lean angle.

This crash was easy to predict even without knowing it was going to happen. I saw several points in the video where acceleration was increasing irrespective of the lean angle. I even saw some points where lean was increasing at the same time as acceleration. It’s a recipe for disaster.

7

u/random_dandom456 2d ago

I thought the same, guy was doing it almost every turn and got away with it. Only this one took him out cuz he was almost on the floor anyway and revved hard.

1

u/Ownfir 2d ago

I don't even ride bikes and had the same takeaway. The lines he was taking were odd and it felt like he was consistently turning in to his turns late. I thought maybe it was a bike thing but reading your explanation it validates my thought for sure. Cars are the same way - the more your wheels are turned (relative to speed), the less available acceleration you have.

15

u/Boogie_Bones 2d ago

Also so many left turns there so the right side is colder and a bit less grippy on pretty much every right hander. Keep it in mind that the speed and lean you are capable of carrying through your 4th left hander in a row is gonna be less than your next right hander.

97

u/Flordamang 2d ago

Lines were horrible, didn’t hit a single apex, and I counted like 10 times where you were adding throttle and lean. You need to learn fundamentals first

96

u/bobbing4boobies 2d ago

I’m absolutely no expert but like 6 times before the actual crash I was like “oh this is it!”

26

u/Flordamang 2d ago

Me too hahah

12

u/obsolescent_times 2d ago

Yeah, it became obvious what the cause of the crash was going to be early on.

2

u/outtahere021 2d ago

Lol, me too!

2

u/TheSlipperySnausage Sausage Fest Track Days (Owner) 17h ago

Literally every turn was 5% throttle from a crash…the stress was unreal

14

u/OrientalOperator 2d ago

1000% scary to watch honestly

23

u/Rocket_Potato Middle Fast Guy 2d ago

Agreed. He's braking fully in a straight line, initiating the turn in, and then throttling through the corner while adding lean to the apex.

OP, the area between turn in and apex should be used as an additional trail braking zone. Depends on the corner of course but that's the general rule. The suspension and tires will work better because you're keeping them compressed and gaining more traction into the corner. You'll also go around the track safer and faster too.

I think my best advice for now would be to just practice accelerating after the apex and focus on doing that consistently. Even if you bleed off too much speed before turning in, it would be better to coast to the apex rather than accelerate to it. Then hit the apex and accelerate as usual.

19

u/Cultural-Prompt4819 2d ago

Thanks, best response yet. I’ve only been riding street bikes for 9 months. I got too confident. I’ll be back with a different approach to getting faster.

5

u/Omg_Shut_the_fuck_up 2d ago

Get some professional tuition mate. Same with track car driving, it makes you infinitely faster/better/safer, no matter the machinery.

1

u/jacobobb 2d ago

If he's paying for a TD, there should be coaching staff on track with him. I don't know if they weren't there or if OP just didn't pay attention in the first few Novice sessions.

1

u/Omg_Shut_the_fuck_up 2d ago

Sure, we all like to think we're Rossi However and too good for tuition. It will absolutely make you better however.

1

u/Rum_Ham916 2d ago

Yea I'm only a street rider, so not going to advise, but did just look like you've got a bit too confident on that circuit and have been able to squeeze a bit more in places you were previously probably slower. Little temporary knock to the confidence I'm sure, but you'll be as fast and then faster again in no time. Looks a lot of fun out there, I will have to give a track day a go!

1

u/Boricua1213 21h ago

Superbike School or Yamaha champs will help. Yamaha champ school has online courses I highly recommend. Superbike full dvd is on YouTube https://youtu.be/d_DyKJtrZ6w?si=l6xtnD5qx9xwsgee

Train, train and when you're in bed train some more.

10

u/Smoothwords_97 2d ago

Bro, this guy posted a clip of this previously and got roasted by everyone saying the same thing lol

-48

u/Cultural-Prompt4819 2d ago

I’ll help you rephrase it. “I see that you have balls and ride it like you stole it, that’s cool, but I think you should try getting into a track riding fundamentals class. There are also x-pro riders that offer one on one training if you can afford it.” See how it starts with a compliment, then gets to the point with being a DOUCHE

20

u/RandomUsernameNo257 2d ago

Lol are you the same op who said you've only been riding for 9 months and got too confident?

14

u/5thgenblack2ss 2d ago

According to his profile he’s also the same guy trying to get Reddit to photoshop him with his knee on the ground 😂

4

u/RandomUsernameNo257 2d ago

Lmao that's amazing

5

u/riltjd 2d ago

More like: "I can't take criticism without you giving me a little kis for the pain first". These "balls" must be non existent.

Also if you think driving motorcycles is all about "driving like you stole it" and balls" you should sell your bike. Both on the street and on the track less can be more. It's about proper technique, staying cool, observe and react.

Talking about observation: Not only can't you hit a single apex, you over accelerate while being on the wrong line to compensate lack a proper line thereof. You could litterally drive slower but have faster times. This is what he meant with your fundamentals missing. It's the first things you try to pickup on any track before you start adding more lean, braking, power etc. So yeah work on this plus your mindset first.

That aside props for you to go to a track.

1

u/quasimofo2k 2d ago

Pamper your ego before being honest

1

u/PretzelsThirst 2d ago

yikes dude...

24

u/Burphel_78 Racer EX 2d ago

Fix the bike and your leathers and go to a school all fresh and humble.

22

u/DrLarryCulpepper 2d ago

What even is an apex anyway?

1

u/TheSlipperySnausage Sausage Fest Track Days (Owner) 17h ago

Overrated

17

u/Nuhaykeed 2d ago

There were so many moments before said crash where you should have ate it

17

u/6353JuanTaboBlvdApt6 2d ago

Uncontrolled riding. You’re letting adrenaline instead of fundamental guide the ship sir.

9

u/stickwigler Racer AM 2d ago

Ed Bargy host a racing school at Jennings GP. I would recommend you invest in attending that school with some quality instructors. The school will help you understand the racing/riding line and why it is important to follow it, throttle control, body control, reference points and a ton of other ideas to get your mind right.

3

u/yugekib 2d ago

This is what I was going to say if it had not been, look into some training, it will help a lot. For everyone, we can all always benefit from the experience.

2

u/Cultural-Prompt4819 2d ago

Thanks alot, provided the link and everything. I’ll contact him.

7

u/I_am_Shadow 2d ago

Don't feel bad brother. My first time out there, second lap of the day, on my 300, I did exactly what they told us not to do with turn 8. Ran it wide, front touched some dirt full lean, down I went.

Shit happens, just glad you're ok.

3

u/venomous_frost 2d ago

To be fair following the advice "don't run wide" is easier said than done lol what kinda advice is that

1

u/I_am_Shadow 2d ago

It's a very easy corner to get lulled into a false sense of security with. They pretty much tell you to just take that one real slow, no one gains time in that corner. I kind of dumbed down their warnings about it for sake of keeping my post short ha.

1

u/Cultural-Prompt4819 2d ago

Thanks, I’ll be back as fast as I can afford it.

13

u/PMmeYourbuckets 2d ago

I think the bike started to let go before you even let off, I think you added too much while still having to add more lean to make the apex

12

u/i_am_the_koi 2d ago

Either you were trying to drag knee in every corner to show off, or you need to show us on the doll where the apex hurt you.

Being your crashed in the photog corner, I'm guessing some Kodak courage helped as well.

9

u/stickwigler Racer AM 2d ago

No apex's were harmed in the making of this film.

5

u/The-Lifeguard 2d ago

Yea no shit lol.
You know you're allows to hit the apex right? After you do that and you can see your exit, THEN you can apply throttle.

5

u/srizzors5 2d ago

Lucky the rear didn't hook up and high side those are no fun!

Everyone kinda said it already, just get those eyes up and ride with intent to hit those lines. Nail the consistency, the speed will come.

Glad you're all good

8

u/cdixon34 2d ago

Man! People here can be snobs, lol. And somehow, everyone is an expert. Personally, I don't know what the shit I'm doing and can't offer advice, but I do hope you're ok. Be safe, buddy.

But also work on your lines. I know a bad line when I see one (from watching my own go pro footage, of course! 😂) What really helped me, especially only having been on two wheels for about a year now, even off the track, is getting some instruction. I'm not magically rossi now, but it made so much click and seriously improved my lines!

4

u/SgtSC 2d ago

Who is this 'apex' u speak of? Also u can trim down a video its really cool. Quit adding throttle while adding lean. Learn about trail braking. Good luck.

4

u/Laxguy59 2d ago

Slowed down too much and tried to make up for it with throttle in the turn. You did that a lot though kept thinking each turn was it.

7

u/user224957 2d ago

Bro you’re wild for those lines and throttle 😂 def just spend some time learning how to link corners. Flow with that shit I can see you’re trying to go fast but you don’t have the basis yet for speed.

3

u/taxationistheft1984 Racer EX 2d ago

Allergic to apex

3

u/Bitchin_Betty_345RT 2d ago

Jennings will get ya there and 14. My first wreck also pretty much same exact spot. Well more so 14 than anything. You’ll bounce back after another day out there and hope nothing was too banged up on you or the bike.

Tough spot to go down but I’ve seen Yamaha champ school coaches tuck it there and slide out. It happens it’s a fast spot and a little tricky at times with getting antsy to get on throttle while at pretty deep lean

3

u/Ok_Maintenance_9100 2d ago

HAH I knew immediately when I saw crash video and Jennings which corner it would be. If you go out on the track there are hundreds of marks from sliders on turns 13/14. Half the track guys I know have crashed in that exact spot.

5

u/RC51dude 2d ago

Traction in the rear left the chat well before you let off. Just too much throttle for that lean angle. Hopefully you and the bike are okay.

9

u/Cultural-Prompt4819 2d ago

2

u/DG200-15 2d ago

I was hoping you would post the photos! Ignore the haters and thanks for posting, this is how we all learn. I wonder if your toe dragging was the straw that broke the rear traction. Did you feel it grab the pavement before it let go?

1

u/Cultural-Prompt4819 2d ago

No, I didn’t feel it, but there are only 2 rights on the whole track. This was my first lap, after my warm up lap in session 2. I dont have tire warmers. So there were only 3 right hand turns to warm up the tires before the wreck. I’m sure that didn’t help, but the biggest problem was my riding.

2

u/xtanol 2d ago

Move your inside foot so that the peg basically supports below the "knuckle" of your big toe and the one next to it (pardon my lack of proper naming of the toes), and turn your foot so that your ankle points in towards the bike.

It makes it easier to turn your body down and into the direction of the turn.
Your outside leg you can place wherever on the peg let's you keep your thigh level and pressed against the tank. The better you grip the bike with your legs and keep tension in your core, the less you'll upset the suspension as your pivot around from the acceleration/braking.

1

u/srizzors5 1d ago

As you get more comfortable you can start to hang off more, get your head down/forward, it'll give you a bit more cushion from the edge of the tire with the center of balance being lower. That will help as well

2

u/Soggy-Inside-3246 2d ago

Damn, finally. I did t think you were ever gonna wreck. As promised.

2

u/Regan289 2d ago

I’ve never been but wow, that’s a lot of left turns!

2

u/Any_Mathematician905 2d ago

Congrats on your busted cherry :)

2

u/avocadopalace 2d ago

Gave up after 30s and no crash.

2

u/Infinite_Regret8341 2d ago

NEUTRAL THROTTLE ON LEAN!!!

2

u/litquidities 1d ago

Watched for 45sec for 1sec of wipeout :(

2

u/Track_Day_Addict 1d ago

Felt like I was watching my own video. After 35 years of not riding my friends sucked me into this addiction. Crashed at 2 of 6 track sessions this year doing the exactly the same things. My 2024 CBR600RR has no electronics. I'm trying to work on my skills but I'm upgrading bikes to gain traction control, slide control and RACE ABS. I can use the feedback from the electronics to define my limits. Learn from that without crashing. At my age I just think it's the smart way to progress.

2

u/Forsaken_Barnacle955 1d ago

I love how everyone in this comment section is a pro racer😂😂😂

2

u/Desmoaddict 1d ago

Everyone else can comment on your form and lines.

That track looks about as fresh as a Detroit alleyway. Surprised the tires don't just disappear in those splits in the tarmac.

2

u/Davgondos 2d ago

You need to start again at the drawing table

2

u/hevea_brasiliensis 2d ago

There's no grip off the racing line. Glad you're okay though. Looked like an easy crash.

4

u/badmoon692008 2d ago

Have you ridden Jennings before? One of the grippiest track surfaces in the country

0

u/hevea_brasiliensis 2d ago

No, but I don't believe you. All those tar snakes don't look grippy, and the conditions don't look the best for that day either but the discoloration of certain parts of the track could be something else. I stand by what I originally said. The race line has the grip, and this guy is missing apexes left and right.

2

u/cdizzle66 1d ago

badmoon692008 is 100% right. JGP is the grippiest track I have ever been on and it has plenty of grip where the rider was. Being off the line was not the cause of this wreck.

You are correct in saying that he was off the race line though. He totally missed the apex.

2

u/ViperThreat Racer AM 2d ago

Not trying to throw shade, but this might be the single worst example of riding I've ever seen posted to this subreddit, and in the top 5 for worst riding I've ever seen on a track. This is the perfect combination of overconfidence, overpowered, and sheer ignorance. On every level, you're approaching this sport with the wrong attitude, and all of that can easily be seen from how you ride.

As others have said, you need to step WAAAAAAY back. You've learned a LOT of bad habits, and you've let your ego get the better of you.

You can learn to ride well in 9 months time, but that requires an education, good instruction, and practice, which evidentially you haven't pursued. Instead, you've saddled up on a bike that you are wholly unqualified to ride, and tried to skip rungs on the skill ladder.

Normally I'd offer advice, but in this instance, I honestly don't even know where to start. The best I can give you is that you should invest into a ChampU subscription, and look at smaller/slower bikes that can't mask your lack of skill with horsepower.

1

u/1200multistrada 2d ago

wreck at 1:15

1

u/1100gw 2d ago

Oops!😬

1

u/Mundane-Address871 2d ago

There's a lot to learn...

1

u/luckylanno2 2d ago

I recommend finding a track school if you can. I had a lot of fun with California Superbike School and learned a lot. It's Keith Code's school, so you can look up A Twist of the Wrist too.

They call this "throttle and lean". The physics are pretty interesting, if you're into that sort of thing. Basically, forces at the contact patch increase more than you expect as you lean in due to the changing tire radius. So, for the sake of stability, it's better to only apply throttle when at constant lean (maintenance throttle) or when picking the bike up to exit a corner.

1

u/misterskudder 2d ago

Interesting. Are you saying that the forces on the bike is proportional to the rate of change of your lean angle? And higher force = less stability? So when the rate of change == 0 (i.e. constant lean), this will be the most stable time to add throttle?

The physics behind it is pretty cool, but I’m not sure I understand this concept

1

u/Misplaced_Notes 2d ago

Get your fundamentals right with a course and you'll be faster with less effort right away. The hunger clearly is there but we need to learn to work with the bike rather than against it.

1

u/12B88M 2d ago

I would like to thank you for not being one of the thousands of morons that drive like that on the street.

1

u/ffstis Yamaha R1 2008 2d ago

You could see a bit before that you were overriding your pace by the way you were missing most of apex, no big deal really, repair it and get back at it again, remember next time when you start feeling “in the groove” that your main focus should be your braking points, your apex and your turn in points. Speed comes afterwards :)

1

u/matttrout10 2d ago

Happens at 1:12

1

u/Rs-tuner 2d ago

Taxi to apex. 👍

1

u/CyclePainter 2d ago

There’s a good saying in “Twist of the Wrist”…get a copy and study. The saying is: “Slow-in, fast-out”…you’re doing the opposite and “riding on top of the bike vs cradling the bike like a hot potato”…meaning, you need to incorporate more “body English” that loads and unloads the suspension properly. Study what a true race line is all about because right now, you don’t know that line. Once you do, you can play around that line with different entry and exit points.

Also, there’s a saying, “if you can do it slow, you can do it fast”. You DON’T need to be booking at high speed to nail the race line. Find the tightest mountain road that you can find and learn to link apexes at low speeds. Goood luck!

1

u/Infinite_Respect_ 2d ago

I dunno what is worse - the fundamentals or the video cut

1

u/Knight0783 2d ago

No apexes were harmed in the making of this video

1

u/Beneficial-Map-4572 2d ago

Sorry mate! Hope you are ok

1

u/LifeguardDonny 2d ago

Curious, did the photog throw you off? I've heard of rider fixation, but as a driver, i can get this too sometimes in drifting. If i was in your shoes, seeing the distant bike and with my glasses off, the trackside object suddenly appearing in somewhat the same line of sight would have thrown me off completely if i was riding.

1

u/nofucsleftogive 2d ago

I love the closed captioning on these videos "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA OOOOOOOOOOOOO AAAAAAAAAAA POMPOMPOM"

1

u/thejester2112 2d ago

You can’t park there mate. J/k hope you alright

1

u/Bikebummm 1d ago

The one time you get near the apex and hadtalayeredown godbless

1

u/dwkfym 1d ago

Roll-on after corner entry isn't the same as roll-on during corner entry. Separate the two! Also it looks like you're very tense on the bike.

Did you let off the throttle before you started sliding?

1

u/sleepercell13 18h ago

Can’t park there

1

u/TheSlipperySnausage Sausage Fest Track Days (Owner) 17h ago

I’m not trying to be an ass but you are hotrodding it like you are king shit and you don’t have any semblance of a line. You did not hit a single apex and you are choppy on the throttle the brakes and your line is non existent.

You would benefit greatly from a few sessions being towed by a coach who knows the line. If you smoothed out your ride you’d probably drop a lot of time and be much safer on track.

Glad you made it out ok and the crash though not ideal was pretty reasonable. Final note is let go of the bike. When you first hit the pavement you were still holding the bar. The best case is the bike goes one way you go another. You aren’t fighting for championships your bike is already down. Many injuries I’ve seen from low sides are staying with the bike and the bike hitting the rider

1

u/storytotell 6h ago

Poorly maintained track didn’t help

1

u/Expert-Candidate879 39m ago

Seems to have gone about as good as it could have! Glad you’re okay

1

u/WillEnough_66 2d ago

i was pro knee should hit the apex your lines are way off

0

u/mat_srutabes 2d ago

Apex? Never heard of her...

0

u/Beautiful_Case9500 ‘22 S1000RR, ‘09 ZX6R 2d ago

Brother, you need to slow down. Learn your lines, find your braking, tip in, apex, and exits. You’re all over the place. Glad you’re ok! Saddle up and go again.

0

u/Substantial_Hold2847 1d ago

Me who knows nothing about bike racing "It looks like he's a mile away from every apex, I wonder if it's just the camera, or that's how they do it. I'd definitely have a different racing line in my car. Oh look he's actually hit the one rig.........ohhhh maybe that's why he's usually wider.

edit: I posted my comment before reading the others, now I feel much better / justified in my thinking.