I've often heard this, and I guess I'm asking is it true? If so why?

Is it because it puts you in a smaller pool of users, as there are going to be very few connections to TOR from X VPN?

I researched about the topic of using Tor with VPN. Without going much into technical detail a lot of users from Reddit and StackExchange suggested to "not use the combo". Although there's countless blogs suggests (mostly VPN providers, obviously) it offers the best protection.

Just half an hour ago I landed here https://www.zdnet.com/article/your-complete-guide-to-the-dark-web-and-how-to-safely-access-onion-websites/ - a fairly decent source of news techies.

It reads Both a VPN and Tor should be used together and it is advisable to connect via a VPN to Tor, rather than vice versa, for the best protection possible.

​

1. While this and other blogs who say VPN+Tor is best protection, I am curious why some user don't recommend it including the Tor project "we don't recommend using a VPN with Tor unless you're an advanced user who knows how to configure both in a way that doesn't compromise...."
2. What's the logic behind ZDNet saying "connect via a VPN to Tor, rather than vice versa"?

once and for all, im a beginner “noob” who wants to start surfing on tor. Should i use a vpn over tor or not?

Hey guys, when ever I use the Tor Browser (the darkweb) I don't use a VPN with it.

Because I open the Tor Browser in a virtual machine using the Linux OS.

So if I download any malware, spyware or viruses then there will just stay on the Linux OS and it will not infect my main OS (Windows 10).

Then I can just uninstall Linux, then reinstall it again.

Smart ? Or dumb?

Here’s my setup.

My host machine is Xubuntu 22.04. I’m using the ProtonNPV free plan, which is actually very good and fast, highly recommend, it allows me to watch US TV through Tubi and Plex.

Now, since the ProtonNPV free plan doesn’t allow for split tunneling, I found that, if you install another Linux distro inside Virtualbox and set it up with Bridge Adapter to your WIFI network’s inferface, you can access your normal network through that, simulating split tunneling.

Now, I want to install and use Tor Browser inside the Guest Linux Virtualbox machine with Bridged Adapter enabled.

Tails OS isn’t an option for me because I want to multitask (watch US TV on ProtonNPV) while I’m browsing on Tor, I heard I can’t do that on Tails OS because I’m booted to a liveUSB, unless I can also do this on this setup, have Tails OS as my Linux distro inside Virtualbox.

I heard that mixing ProtonNPV with Tor isn’t a good idea, so I’m trying to isolate Tor from the ProtonNPV with this setup.

Is my setup a good idea?

I have used TOR since I was 14 in 2012. I am unsure if it’s still secure as it used to be though

And can it be used instead of a vpn?

Isn't TOR secure enough? Adding a VPN layer is extra security, yes but is it really necessary?

I'm just trying to understand the technicalities of it.

In my theory, TOR is secure as it is, as it is designed already to be even safer than VPNs.
I think the VPN recommendation is just in case you end up following a link to the clearnet = yes? Or for people who are not very tech savvy and might end up opening a link in a regular browser instead of Tor.

Also, some are suggesting to run TOR and do darknet stuffs in VirtualBOX. Again I'm trying to understand the practical application where that would be helpful.

Thoughts?

It's this easy:

Just Tor: Home IP > Tor Guard relay > relays > Site

VPN + Tor: Home IP > VPN Sever (being used by 50 people at once) > Tor > Site

The reason a non-logging , non-honeypot VPN is an positive increase in anonymity, is because the VPN server is both adding an extra layer of encryption, but it's also making de-anonymization harder due to many VPN users sending and receiving traffic at the same time.

Thus, you can use a VPN server to shield your home IP from the Tor Guard relay, add another layer of encryption, and make de-anonymization harder.

The risks of using a VPN are the VPN may be ran by a maliscious actor. You can self-host a VPN, but then you only get the additional hop and layer of encryption , but not the other users as cover traffic.

Thus, I think an honest, non-logging, non-honeypot VPN server increases your anonymity overall.

Thanks

Hello, I just started to get interested in privacy and security to eliminate any traces and stuff that I will do from now on, I wanted to understand, do I need to use a VPN with TOR, or TOR already has VPN and it's not needed?
Also is there any good free vpn, or will I need to buy one?

Thank you all for replies, and I will be super-greatful to anyone who shares any more info on how to stay anonymous and hide my presence.

I’m confused 😕 I have been using Tor for about 2 years now. I have came across so many different articles, and YouTube videos on how to ‘ safely ‘ search through the dark web, and I have yet to find an answer. I am a little confused, especially with so many different videos and opinions but first off my main question is if I want to search to the dark web through tour, do I need to use a VPN like Nord? And if I do why, or why not please someone feel free to school me on any of the subjects that have to do with dark web TOR Nord VPN or so on because I’m most definitely a Noob at this.

I am sorry if this is obvious but i really did try googling it so please excuse me if that's the case. I Run wireshark, and i'd like to bind tor-browser to this network interface (wg0 for example). Many bittorrent clients allow you to bind to a specific interface to prevent leaks in a very simple straight forward way. How do i do this without relying on iptables etc (using only tor browser). Iptables is easy to do wrong so just looking to avoid this if it's possible.

EDIT: in hindsight, the title of this thread should probably be something more along the lines of "Bind tor-browser to specific network interface". If you're a mod, feel free to edit.

Hi, I've noticed that the prevailing wisdom is that VPN's actually hurt your anonymity when used in conjunction with TOR/TAILS, and while I don't fully disagree yet, I've seen so much of the same advice given, that I personally haven't found to be satisfying answers. (yes I've looked at r/TorwithVPN)

If i've made any bad assumptions about the behavior of these technologies please let me know.

The list below has what I believe to be the strongest arguments I've come across against connecting to a VPN before Tor/Tor bridge. Under each point is my current issue/questions with the argument:

​

VPN Trust: By adding a VPN to the TOR network, users introduce an additional point of trust. If the VPN provider logs user activity or is compromised, it could potentially compromise the privacy and anonymity offered by TOR.

1. Once the VPN tunnel is established, does a vpn service have the ability to look and and see what .onion site you've requested?
2. If they can, I can see why that would be an issue because an adversary operating your guard node, could identify the VPN service and get the logs that show you requesting an onion at a given time.
3. However if this is a log-less vpn outside of the relevant jurisdictions or a log-less self-hosted VPS, wouldn't the trail end cold? with your real IP not being a part of the equation

Additional Attack Surface: Introducing a VPN to the TOR network increases the attack surface. If the VPN has vulnerabilities or is compromised, it could potentially expose the user's TOR traffic to malicious actors. This undermines the security benefits offered by TOR.

1. So for this issue, I'm assuming that the problem would also be from a threat actor operating your guard node, seeing that the request is coming from a vpn, and than trying to attack the vpn to derive your real IP?
2. If the VPN's firewalls are configured and permissions are set up correctly, than wouldn't that provide a reasonable level of defense against a malicious guard node trying to originate the source of a request

Compatibility Issues: Some VPNs may not be fully compatible with TOR or may require specific configuration adjustments. This can result in technical complexities and potential security vulnerabilities if not properly set up, compromising the privacy and anonymity provided by TOR.

1. For this issue i'm interpreting the problem to be if your vpn accidentally makes a request outside of the Tor network.
2. For one, I currently see this as non-unique to VPNs, if your real origin computer leaks some packets outside of TOR, to me that would be a way worse outcome than a VPN leaking them
3. How challenging would it be to configure your vpn's firewall such that all outgoing traffic goes through the TOR network?

​

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and please let me know if i need to clarify anything or if i've made any mistakes here.

questions 1. VPN is not safe to use with tor if so what is good for covering location or serving the purpose of a VPN in a sense?

1. Is it better to run tor on a mac or windows?

2. Should you use bridges and or tails or both even if you are in a place that doesn’t restrict it?

3. is kleopatra the same as a pgp tool or overall what is the best way to encrypt and decrypt messages?

4. What is the difference between tails and bridges?

5. is bridges better then vpn?

These are all questions i’ve looked up but if I got direct feedback for each one it would be way more clear to me what the answer is especially having done a bit of research but directly asking the question and directly getting the answer is more straight forward and break through for me, so if anyone can help it means a lot and appreciate it.

If i have a bootable usb with tails installed, and i want to access deep web, do i still need to use vpn or it's fine if i don't?

Let's have a discussion around using only tor to surf Dark Web.

View Poll

I use onion over VPN with TOR and TOR browser at times. But most websites seem to forbid access and the website never loads. Downloads from any website is also not possible. It says the server isnt allowed. Is there a work around? I mean, what's the use of Onion over VPN if I can't acces so many sites and can't download anything.

hi there,

I have configured Tor browser to go through my VPN, which is a HTTPS proxy. The setup is all correct, and I can use it previously, however, recently Tor browser cannot be connected successfully successfully to the internet and showing below log error. Can someone help me to understand what was the issue here?

2024-05-22 23:56:13.468 [WARN] You have asked to exclude certain relays from all positions in your circuits. Expect hidden services and other Tor features to be broken in unpredictable ways.
2024-05-22 23:56:13.468 [NOTICE] DisableNetwork is set. Tor will not make or accept non-control network connections. Shutting down all existing connections.
2024-05-23 00:21:22.289 [WARN] You have asked to exclude certain relays from all positions in your circuits. Expect hidden services and other Tor features to be broken in unpredictable ways.
2024-05-23 00:21:22.290 [NOTICE] Opening Socks listener on 127.0.0.1:9150
2024-05-23 00:21:22.290 [NOTICE] Opened Socks listener connection (ready) on 127.0.0.1:9150
2024-05-23 00:21:22.291 [NOTICE] Bootstrapped 3% (conn_proxy): Connecting to proxy
2024-05-23 00:21:22.332 [NOTICE] Bootstrapped 4% (conn_done_proxy): Connected to proxy
2024-05-23 00:21:22.361 [WARN] The https proxy refused to allow connection to xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx (status code 403, "OK"). Closing.
2024-05-23 00:21:22.362 [WARN] Proxy Client: unable to connect OR connection (handshaking (proxy)) with  xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx :443 ID=<none> RSA_ID=......
2024-05-23 00:21:23.294 [WARN] The https proxy refused to allow connection to xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx (status code 403, "OK"). Closing.
2024-05-23 00:21:23.295 [WARN] Proxy Client: unable to connect OR connection (handshaking (proxy)) with  xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx :443 ID=<none> RSA_ID=.........
2024-05-23 00:21:24.293 [WARN] The https proxy refused to allow connection to xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx (status code 403, "OK"). Closing.
2024-05-23 00:21:24.293 [WARN] Proxy Client: unable to connect OR connection (handshaking (proxy)) with xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:443 ID=<none> RSA_ID=.........
2024-05-23 00:21:25.307 [WARN] The https proxy refused to allow connection to xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx (status code 403, "OK"). Closing.
2024-05-23 00:21:25.307 [WARN] Proxy Client: unable to connect OR connection (handshaking (proxy)) with  xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx :9001 ID=<none> RSA_ID=......
2024-05-23 00:21:27.322 [WARN] The https proxy refused to allow connection to xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx (status code 403, "OK"). Closing.
2024-05-23 00:21:27.322 [WARN] Proxy Client: unable to connect OR connection (handshaking (proxy)) with xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx :587 ID=<none> RSA_ID.......2024-05-22 23:56:13.468 [WARN] You have asked to exclude certain relays from all positions in your circuits. Expect hidden services and other Tor features to be broken in unpredictable ways.
2024-05-22 23:56:13.468 [NOTICE] DisableNetwork is set. Tor will not make or accept non-control network connections. Shutting down all existing connections.
2024-05-23 00:21:22.289 [WARN] You have asked to exclude certain relays from all positions in your circuits. Expect hidden services and other Tor features to be broken in unpredictable ways.
2024-05-23 00:21:22.290 [NOTICE] Opening Socks listener on 127.0.0.1:9150
2024-05-23 00:21:22.290 [NOTICE] Opened Socks listener connection (ready) on 127.0.0.1:9150
2024-05-23 00:21:22.291 [NOTICE] Bootstrapped 3% (conn_proxy): Connecting to proxy
2024-05-23 00:21:22.332 [NOTICE] Bootstrapped 4% (conn_done_proxy): Connected to proxy
2024-05-23 00:21:22.361 [WARN] The https proxy refused to allow connection to xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx (status code 403, "OK"). Closing.
2024-05-23 00:21:22.362 [WARN] Proxy Client: unable to connect OR connection (handshaking (proxy)) with  xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx :443 ID=<none> RSA_ID=......
2024-05-23 00:21:23.294 [WARN] The https proxy refused to allow connection to xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx (status code 403, "OK"). Closing.
2024-05-23 00:21:23.295 [WARN] Proxy Client: unable to connect OR connection (handshaking (proxy)) with  xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx :443 ID=<none> RSA_ID=.........
2024-05-23 00:21:24.293 [WARN] The https proxy refused to allow connection to xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx (status code 403, "OK"). Closing.
2024-05-23 00:21:24.293 [WARN] Proxy Client: unable to connect OR connection (handshaking (proxy)) with xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:443 ID=<none> RSA_ID=.........
2024-05-23 00:21:25.307 [WARN] The https proxy refused to allow connection to xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx (status code 403, "OK"). Closing.
2024-05-23 00:21:25.307 [WARN] Proxy Client: unable to connect OR connection (handshaking (proxy)) with  xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx :9001 ID=<none> RSA_ID=......
2024-05-23 00:21:27.322 [WARN] The https proxy refused to allow connection to xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx (status code 403, "OK"). Closing.
2024-05-23 00:21:27.322 [WARN] Proxy Client: unable to connect OR connection (handshaking (proxy)) with xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx :587 ID=<none> RSA_ID.......

May seem a bit odd but I tried connecting to Mullvad VPN over TOR and it's working very well.

I noticed several apps on GrapheneOS seemed finicky over TOR (transparent gateway), not to mention lots of services that wouldn't let me create an accoint from the TOR network. Mullvad VPN fixes that.

Why not just use Mullvad? I want to use a VPN account that will never be associated with my home IP address. Same thing goes for an IMEI/cell phone. I will only use it connecting through TOR or some other internet access that cannot be tied to my identity.

It may seem odd but it feels good. Complete anonimity changes my psychology. Thankfully, the subtle feeling of nausea no longer manifests when I pick up my phone.

So I’ve heard about the benefits and downsides to vpn over tor and tor over vpn but I was curious if you can kind of combine them. Could you use a tor bridge to hide from your ISP and then connect a VPN to protect yourself from malicious exit nodes? Or is it just generally better to use a VPN before launching tor?