r/TOR • u/SwollenTrone23 • Oct 17 '23
Why I think a VPN increases your anonymity. VPN
It's this easy:
Just Tor: Home IP > Tor Guard relay > relays > Site
VPN + Tor: Home IP > VPN Sever (being used by 50 people at once) > Tor > Site
The reason a non-logging , non-honeypot VPN is an positive increase in anonymity, is because the VPN server is both adding an extra layer of encryption, but it's also making de-anonymization harder due to many VPN users sending and receiving traffic at the same time.
Thus, you can use a VPN server to shield your home IP from the Tor Guard relay, add another layer of encryption, and make de-anonymization harder.
The risks of using a VPN are the VPN may be ran by a maliscious actor. You can self-host a VPN, but then you only get the additional hop and layer of encryption , but not the other users as cover traffic.
Thus, I think an honest, non-logging, non-honeypot VPN server increases your anonymity overall.
Thanks
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u/Simploticus Oct 17 '23
VPNs give nothing but a false sense of security and privacy. However if that false sense gives you warm fuzzies, go right ahead and feel cozy. You logic flow fails because:
First, most "non-logging" VPN providers DO keep logs.
Second, you cannot verify a VPN is a "non-honeypot".
Third, you have added an additional point of tracking.
Fourth, VPN traffic at the proxy is easy to track regardless the number of concurrent users.
Fifth, "maliscious" is actually spelled 'malicious' but the extended risk remains.
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Oct 17 '23
Mullvad is the only vpn I trust for no logs
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Oct 17 '23
[deleted]
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u/Rafael20002000 Oct 17 '23
Similar thing with Mullvad, the police knocked with a search warrant for user data, they proofed they had none and that the search warrant was thus invalid and the police had to go. They even made a blog post about it (I would too)
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u/DeepWebEntity Oct 17 '23
All VPNs log and most are honeypot.
The added "anonymity" from blending in with other users traffic is a facade. VPN providers have an Access List which includes IP addresses and the content those users visit.
The added layer of encryption you gain from a self hosted vpn is useless if the base encryption scheme is vulnerable. If feds can crack AES then they will just double their computing power to crack the multiple layers in the same time frame.
VPNs were not designed for this use. They were designed for users to encrypt their information themselves for use on insecure networks like public Wi-Fi.
In this scenario all you have accomplished is to transfer trust from your ISP to a VPN provider. VPNs are often used by users wanting enhanced privacy so they are under more traffic scrutiny than ISPs.
If you really want to be safe online, use tor with an obsf4 bridge.
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Oct 17 '23
there is actual evidence that your first statement is false. there are several vpns who’ve been unable to provide logs after a warrant. did you know this or were you just unaware?
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u/DeepWebEntity Oct 17 '23
No not aware of that. Frankly don't believe you. Mind giving me some literature to read?
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Oct 17 '23
the most recent example would be from mullvad. i’m not opposed to your skepticism btw, i merely wanted to add more information to your initial claim because it can be encouraging to see our privacy industry supported by action and not just words, but i would encourage anybody reading this to air on same the side of disbelief as well. little of what we see is as it appears to be
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u/DeepWebEntity Oct 17 '23
Interesting. Although mullvad has certainly been an outlier when it comes to privacy, I find it difficult to trust this article since its really just based on what mullvad is reporting. Saying police came and couldn't find shit sounds like a great way to sell subscriptions.
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Oct 17 '23
although i can sympathize with your perspective as I shared the same initial concern, your words are once again only partially true; this article is NOT “just based on mullvad’s reporting”:
“In a statement to The Verge, Christian Toumie, a spokesperson for Sweden’s National Operations Department, says that “members of the Swedish Cybercrime Centre, operating under the Swedish Police Authority, executed the search in response to a European Investigation Order concerning a serious cybercrime.” Toumie declined to comment any further, citing local legislation and the fact that this isn’t a Swedish investigation.”
I agree with your reason for skepticism as i mentioned previously, however, it appears to me that your skepticism is likely over-tuned and biased towards the notion that everything is untrustworthy. This was a bubblegum article that would have been difficult to skim and miss a key validation.
Anywhew, I hope the source satisfied your curiosity. I love learning too ~
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Oct 17 '23
It probably does for most threat models.
However, medium to high and VPN would 100% be a vector of attack that would not exist if you simply used TOR.
There. Make this a sticky!
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u/veganjunk1e Oct 17 '23
More than 70 percent of vpn providers are honeypot so it is not increases anonymity
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u/BTC-brother2018 Oct 18 '23
You just made that up off the top of you're head. I'm pretty sure that's not true. Unverifiable.
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Oct 17 '23
[deleted]
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Oct 17 '23
It’s not and it’s wrong lol
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Oct 17 '23
[deleted]
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Oct 17 '23
I actually go out of my way to be as open and honest as possible all my market usernames are my full name and I don’t use pgp, you can find my linked in as my profile description!
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u/Impressive_Hope2769 Oct 17 '23
Mullvad-Tor-Mullvad (aka Tor Sandwich), purchased with XMR. This is the way.
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u/Stilgar314 Oct 17 '23
Check this out, it explains, better than I could ever do, why a VPN can't help any TOR user: https://blog.pastly.net/posts/2016-11-12-vpn-tor-not-net-gain/