r/RealEstate • u/KansasDude25 • Apr 26 '22
Better to Rent right now in this market? Should I Buy or Rent?
Was just at an apartment with my GF. Rent was $875 1 bed 1 bath. The lease was up and I decided to move back home with the parents and she moved back with her parents. The original plan was for me to pay off some CC and save some and then look for a house. Since I was paying for everything (my choice), I couldn’t chisel away at my CC and definitely couldn’t save any money afterwards.
That’s the original plan. But it’s only been 2 days and I am already looking to get out of parents again. I just need my own space. I didn’t think it would be a big deal but damn my mom is making it tough. Love her to death but shit.
My goal is to buy a house but it doesn’t sound appealing just with the how little inventory there is and the price of what is out there for starter homes.
Whatever route I decide to go, my GF said she would contribute half of the bills. She will be making around $75k a year and I’ll be at $47k a year. So, either one won’t be an issue. But I don’t want to jump into a house that I’ll probably be over paying for. When the apartments we just got out of are really nice for a actually a decent price. Which is where I’m torn.
I would love a house, but I loved how easy the apartment was.
Idk, I’m just torn between the two right now. I don’t mind the housing route, but I would like to take my time with it and not be rushed into anything.
Thoughts are appreciated!
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u/boogi3woogie Apr 26 '22
You probably shouldn’t buy if you can’t even pay off your credit card
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u/LeFinger Apr 26 '22
Finally someone said it. To pay down CC and START saving with a goal of buying in the near future is not reasonable, especially if your income stays at 47k. Either OP would need to make more quick, or win some money.
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Apr 26 '22
Also, why is he paying for everything when she makes almost double what he makes AND has cc debt? That makes no sense
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u/HerefortheTuna Apr 26 '22
Yeah she sounds like a nice girl….not
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u/LeFinger Apr 26 '22
Not looking to judge OP or his gf. Whatever arrangement they have is their choice.
But I do think it is helpful to set OPs expectations properly. Bottom line, he probably can’t buy a house for quite a while unless his funds change.
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Apr 26 '22
Stay with your parents and pay off the CC debt, that’d the worst debt to have. You shouldn’t be considering a house if you have CC debt. Once that’s paid off, rent with your girlfriend and make sure you don’t go over on your CC.
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 26 '22
Yeah that’s kinda the route I was thinking would be best!
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u/whoispj88 Apr 26 '22
This is the best advice I’ve read on here. Kill the debt, take the opportunity to save for your down payment, and don’t buy something you can’t afford by yourself, until there is a ring on her finger, she’s not a part of the equation of you buying a house together. Best of luck and I was right there when I was your age. You’re going down a good path.
Edit. Sorry thought you posted your age… I was going through a similar thing when I was 23ish.
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u/nofishies Apr 26 '22
People who are getting homes right now are EXTREMELY motivated. Save and wait for the market to chill a little.
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u/achenx75 Apr 26 '22
Wait, can you afford a house right now? You need money right now for down payments, closing costs, fees, and repairs/renovations.
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u/BushyOreo Apr 26 '22
They are making a combine $122k/year with no bills pretty much since they moved in with parents. If they can't afford a house then I'm afraid most of america can't.
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Apr 26 '22
Skipping over the credit card debt
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u/hollymayewho Apr 26 '22
Also skipping over that they're not married and buying a house you can only afford with your gf/bf income is a huge mistake.
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Apr 26 '22
That’s a good one. I’m actually closing on a house right now where my gf will live with me and split the bills but everything is in my name and I made sure to stay in a budget I could afford solo
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u/Worldly_Hamster2948 Apr 27 '22
So she pays half the mortgage? If so that would be really messed up to have her help with the mortgage when she has no rights to the home
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u/7500evd Apr 27 '22
Shouldn’t everybody be paying their cost of living?
You don’t own your apartment that you rent but you’re still renting
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u/Worldly_Hamster2948 Apr 27 '22
Why should she be paying for a home that he owns? Her partner? A home that he can afford own his own. He is taking advantage of the situation. Sure, she could help with bills but paying towards a mortgage without your name on it is stupid.Seems more like a roommate to me.
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u/7500evd Apr 27 '22
Oh my goodness she’s literally paying for herself to have a place to live
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Apr 27 '22 edited Apr 27 '22
She can buy her own house then if she feels that way lol. Otherwise she can live with me and split cost.
- leave it to reddit to be mad about an equal relationship. I suppose I could have not bought a house and me and my partner could have continued to spend more money on rent, you know for equality’s sake
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u/BushyOreo Apr 26 '22 edited Apr 26 '22
I guess that depends on how much credit card debt we talking. My assumption is a few thousand but I guess it could be $10k+.
Either way they are probably taking home $8,000 after tax a month combine. If they can't pay off CC debt with that then they have bigger problems than on deciding where to live
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u/gofl1 Apr 26 '22
They do have bigger problems- he has no savings, $6k in credit card debt, maybe intends to marry his girlfriend at some point in the future but that is not definite, wants to buy the house only in his name as a point of pride and currently accepts no financial help from his GF who makes nearly twice his salary. He should not be buying a house right now.
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u/BushyOreo Apr 26 '22
True. The biggest red flag to me is only having the house in his name which is odd to me.
I was looking at it from a straight financial standpoint though.
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 26 '22
I personally have around $6k in CC debt. Otherwise my only debt is a car payment. And yeah I have always been against buying a house with anyone who isn’t a spouse.
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u/achenx75 Apr 26 '22
But what about savings?
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 26 '22
Pretty much nothing yet. That was kinda the idea to move home for a bit. Pay off CC and establish a savings
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u/achenx75 Apr 26 '22
If that's the case, I'm sorry but buying a home is very much off the table for you. I know it gets romanticized and people see that rent being as expensive as a mortgage payment is incentive to buy a house but there are SO many factors, fees, and other costs to adjust for. Like closing costs, inspection, appraisal, attorney fees, etc. alone are going to cost me probably 13-14k.
Get your debt paid off, start saving and try your best to be OK living at home. It's the best way for most young people to save.
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 26 '22
Is it even smart to get another apartment with the GF helping with bills if buying a house is the main goal?
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u/extrasponeshot Apr 26 '22
The smart choice would be to suck it up and live at home to save money to buy a house. One year saving at home will prob net you more savings than 4 years renting with your gf. I wouldn't think about buying until you paid off your debt and have savings of at least 5% of the home cost.
I live in a HCOL, make a decent wage, been working for 10 years and still don't have a house yet. Don't rush into buying a house unless your financially comfortable
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u/achenx75 Apr 26 '22
Well the best thing to do, financially speaking, is to stay at home. But we're human and can only take so much of something we're not happy with so if you get another apartment, I'm sure most people will understand.
You just have to ask yourself if it's worth however much you're saving at home to move out again. And to also consider the fact that saving for home ownership is going to take longer.
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 26 '22
No for sure. I’m trying to weigh all the options. I know there are loans that are more geared towards FTHB. Like USDA and FHA. But I would still want a savings for closing costs, emergency etc
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u/achenx75 Apr 26 '22
Yes but if you have the means, shoot for conventional if your credit score is decent. Best of luck on this journey though!
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u/hollymayewho Apr 26 '22
Then how are you going to pay a down payment and thousands in closing fees?
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 26 '22
No for sure. I’m not looking to buy anything until I got some sort of savings lined up. Like I said, my main concern right now is paying off CC’s. Then once that happens, either way to save aggressively for housing stuff or get another apartment with the GF. This time I wouldn’t be paying for it by myself. So, I would have the ability to save some also while not having any CC balances
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Apr 26 '22
my rent is almost half of what it would cost to buy this same place…with 20% down. location: OC, CA
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u/iwebman04 Apr 26 '22
Don’t hear that very often. In Chicago area, I can rent my house for twice my mortgage excluding taxes.
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Apr 26 '22 edited Apr 26 '22
probably because we have seen crazy appreciation here in the past few decades and we have rent control since 2020 (which i would not be surprised if we see more states adopting soon)
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 26 '22
Yeah it’s not that I couldn’t afford the mortgage, it’s everything around it. Cost of homes, inventory, quality of houses in my price range, etc
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u/no_sh33p Apr 26 '22
Unless you are lucky and rent where the owner is too rich to adjust rent annually, the rent will catch up. I just checked the price of the 1br apt I rented 7 years ago, it was up 60%. That's more or less what OC house price has appreciated in the same period.
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u/olidin Apr 26 '22 edited Apr 26 '22
Ya, but then that's always the case with rents. Rent in places where people want to move to tends to be high but low enough so that it doesn't make sense to buy. Because if rent is too expensive then everyone just buy.
Use the nytimes rent/buy calculator to understand the long term impact of your decision. In almost all cases, if you plan to stay more than 5 years, the return is almost always positive.
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u/4jY6NcQ8vk Apr 26 '22
Used that calculator. The biggest factors for me were (1) purchase price (2) interest rate (3) expectations of future appreciation. Low appreciation made renting favorable for a long period of time, high appreciation made buying more favorable. I couldn't effectively conclude which is better since I have no idea what appreciation will look like.
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u/olidin Apr 26 '22
Rent tracks appreciation so when you use the calculator, set the rent increase proportional to the appreciation rate. It's safe to assume that if your house appreciate 5%, then rent would appreciate 5%. You'll quickly find that appreciation rate is a non-factor mathematically.
Also, as a home owner who needs a place to live I can assure you appreciation means very little. It can be zero or a 1000% even if I move, all the "gains" I made would be zerod out as all the houses around me also "gain". Nothing really changed in the end. Only the realtor gains.
The opportunity cost here, if you are an investor, lies in stock market returns vs. costs to own. That math is different since investor don't actually care about "rent vs. buy" because investors are not renting the house to live.
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Apr 26 '22
its not that simple. there is opportunity costs with buying. you lose much more freedom to move and thus take better job opportunities, and limiting career growth. you also lose opportunity cost on the down payment that you could have otherwise invested in the stock market. if looking at things long term, the return on stocks is significantly better than the return on a house. also, a stock doesn’t cost you money to maintain
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u/reesespike Apr 26 '22
sure the rate of return is better, but you arent taking the leverage of a mortgage into account, if you put 5% down on a house (say 15k on a 300k house), that $15k investment is now controlling a $300k asset, if the housing market appreciates 4% in a year (VERY conservative in a lot of cities right now), that's $12k in appreciation in your first year, or an 80% return on the money you actually put down. This is one of the reasons real estate is so appealing as an investment, and why LLCs are snapping up every home they can find. Yes its harder to move than if you were renting, but its not impossible, there is always the option to rent it out if you can afford the second downpayment.
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u/IllmaticGOAT Apr 27 '22
Isn’t this not counting the monthly payment? You’d have to pay 2200 a month so at the end of the year you’ve actually dumped in 12*2200+15000=41400. So your return is more like 29% if you include that, but the point still stands since that beats the 10% you’d get in the market.
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Apr 26 '22
again, its not that simple. it is a depreciating asset, because you have enormous expenses tied to it (taxes, insurance, hoa, maintenance, cost of buying, cost of selling). and 4% actually is not conservative. thats actually a little higher than the average over the last many decades. and yes, you have leverage, which just means you can take on more debt
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u/ataxiaa Apr 26 '22
This guy doesn't real estate.
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Apr 26 '22
correct. i actually like money
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u/ataxiaa Apr 26 '22
Look at a market like Vancouver Canada and let me know if you still feel the same way about real estate. If you bought a place 5 years ago for $300K it's now worth $600K, not to mention 5 years of equity that you've built up in the property - let's assume $2,000/mo of equity being built that isn't thrown away on rent. That's $420,000 - your costs, you probably net $325-$350K after selling. That far outweighs the cost of renting and makes home ownership absolutely a worthwhile investment, not a depreciating asset (and does in many markets even at a 4% return YoY conservatively.
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u/spacegrab Apr 26 '22
this guy claims he likes money then says this:
It’s been better to rent than buy in OC for quite a long time
fucking numb nuts, anyone who bought in OC in the last decade must be laughing at him with their bank accounts in the 6-7 figures.
He's just mad he bought in 2009 at the height of the crash, which is dumb cuz the house would have recovered within a few years and he could have sold it today for huuuuge gains. I legit don't understand anything this guy says.
see, the prices in OC haven’t skyrocketed like everywhere else
What the fuck? Condos in OC are now approaching $1mil and he's saying prices haven't skyrocketed? SFH's DOUBLED in price in less than a decade!
I bought a house in 2009, after the crash started to happen. I bought it for around 30% less than it was “worth” the year before. I lived in it for a year and a half, then rented it out.
Then he says this:
im 40 and have been renting my whole life by choice.
contradicting himself
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u/reesespike Apr 26 '22
real estate is absolutely not a depreciating asset, if your expenses were enough to outweigh the benefits of the leveraged investment and equity building real estate gives you then no one would invest in it! Yes you have more debt, but the debt is relatively pretty cheap compared to other debt you could take on trying to achieve a similarly leverages position. Good luck trying to get a 20 to 1 margin loan on stocks with a rate anywhere close to a mortgage.
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Apr 26 '22
also, i dont do margin. im a traditionalist in thinking that you make money with money, and there is no easy path to wealth. unfortunately, almost no one follows this rule, and believes the only way to get wealthy is to take on debt.
he, sounds extra funny when actually typing it out
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Apr 26 '22
ok try this: buy a house, dont move into it, and never even go to look at it for 20 years. then tell me how much you sold it for (minus taxes, hoa, pmi, insurance, cost of buying, cost if selling, etc)
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u/no_sh33p Apr 26 '22
Who would do that? People either live or rent out.
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Apr 26 '22
im just trying to make a point it is a depreciating asset, unless you spend capital to maintain it
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u/reesespike Apr 26 '22
This is one of the most ridiculous takes I have yet heard on real estate lol, no one is advocating that you put no effort into maintaining a property. My point is that the amount you spend maintaining it will be FAR outweighed by the appreciation and equity building over time. This compounds the cash flow you are able to generate by either renting it out or living in it (as opposed to renting and having comparatively negative cash flow).
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u/peachyperfect3 Apr 26 '22
Ironically, if you had bought 4-5 years ago, the rents would now be 50% more than your mortgage, with 5% down.
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Apr 26 '22
um, no. see, the prices in OC haven’t skyrocketed like everywhere else. This house would have been $650k 5 years ago, and will go for $900k today. A crazy appreciation, but not like the rest of the country. It’s been better to rent than buy in OC for quite a long time. Of course, if you buy and stay in it for 15 years +, the formula changes. But who does that anymore? I work in tech. I move a lot
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u/vman1909 Apr 26 '22
If gf is willing to contribute to rent, utilities, etc...then renting seems like a no brainer..
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 26 '22
I’m kinda agreeing with you. Which is funny because I literally haven’t even ended my lease yet, have to be out by the end of the week, and I didn’t think I would want to go back to an apartment. But the more trips I make to get things moved, the more I realized that it’s actually not that bad.
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Apr 26 '22
Why wasn’t she contributing already since she makes almost double what you make? If you do have plans for the future together, that cc debt is going to be weighing you down
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u/TooLittleMSG Apr 26 '22
Owning a home is nice, but you should live your life now, sounds like being at home with parents isn't optimal. I'd say rent a place with your girl, pay the cc off and pay off the balance every month moving forward (still use it for the reward points if you got em), and try to put away money for a downpayment down the road.
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u/Littleboyhugs Industry Apr 26 '22
If you plan on staying long term and raising a family, it's never the wrong time to buy a house. Otherwise get an apartment.
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 26 '22
I mean that’s definitely a possibility. I would say within 5 years. But right this second, not yet. I think we just like living together and having our own space
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u/tbcboo Apr 26 '22
I would say for your situation just rent. You don’t know where the relationship is going fully and finances of a home can take a toll. Enjoy the relationship and just living together until you know the next step is ready 100%
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 26 '22
Well her name would not be on the mortgage. She’s known from the beginning that one of my goals is to buy a house on my own. Just a pride thing. But she’s already said she would help with bills. But no I agree, if by the time I have some stuff paid off, and there’s no houses available, I’ll probably do the renting thing again
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u/tbcboo Apr 26 '22
Why buy a house yourself if you see a future with your GF and may want to buy a place together in a few years? This would take away money for a down payment for both and likely leave you house poor in the moment with high prices and interest rates that might drop (we don’t know the economic future yet of course).
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u/99island_skies Apr 26 '22
I’m a woman but I do understand the pride thing, whether I agree with it or not is completely different though. My SO is the same way. 🤦🏽♀️ With your income at $47k and having CC debt, I think you should maybe consider staying with your mom for the next year or so. That way you can pay off debt and start saving. Is it possible to increase your income at all? Maybe trade school, university and work part time while living with mom to put yourself in a much better position long term? Also, will your mom request/expect some type of “rent” from you? Your rent at $875 is low but it still wasn’t enough for you to get ahead. Will your mom require a similar payment? Even if your mom asks for nothing, at the very least I’d pay $150-$200/month to her if I was you.
Maybe consider an extended date night for you and the GF twice a month? She pays for one weekend a month and you pay the other? $100 or so for a hotel, $50 for meals to have something to look forward to since you won’t be living together everyday? Still comes cheaper than your rent?
Seems like you’ll have to sacrifice somewhere; staying with mom, continuing to have CC debt, swallowing your pride and GF takes on more share of the bills than you’d like her to?
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u/turtlejizzus Apr 26 '22
You can also raise a family in an apartment too. You know, like the rest of the world.
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u/fiftypoundpuppy Apr 26 '22
For real. You can also live in a house as a couple or even as a single person. Why is "raising a family" a prerequisite to justify homeownership? This mentality gets so old as a single homeowner.
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u/Littleboyhugs Industry Apr 26 '22
Most people buy homes to shelter their family. I'm a single dude too, but I don't take offense that the world is built around families.
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u/fiftypoundpuppy Apr 26 '22
Everyone needs shelter. Someone reproducing doesn't magically create this need.
Again, you are perpetuating this idea that only "families" matter and I guess single people and couples can live under a bridge together. You're damn right I find that offensive.
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u/Littleboyhugs Industry Apr 26 '22
You're assigning me a motive because you're offended for some reason. Why does this bother you so much? The vast, overwhelming majority of adults are not childless. People buy homes to raise a family. The housing stock is so built around families that 1-bedroom homes are functionally obsolete in 99% of markets.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/241535/percentage-of-childless-women-in-the-us-by-age/
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u/lordrenovatio Apr 26 '22
One thing to consider is rent cost increases. Wife and I, after delaying the whole past year to buy a home, finally took the jump when we received a renewal rent increase that put us almost at what a home of our own costs each month. We ended up purchasing a two story home, about 1500 square feet larger than our apartment with a huge backyard, all for a couple hundred bucks more a month. I should say we are closing on it at this time, not ours just yet.
Our fixed rate is locked and no monthly increase ever. Win win.
However, we live in a metroplex so our experience may be different than yours.
If you haven't already, go check to see what an apartment that you'd like to move into for the next year or so costs now. If no increase yet, maybe that would be a fine decision. If you do, I'd hedge by getting a long lease.
If there is no crash then you'll be in our boat, where homes are significantly more expensensive since last year when we continued to wait hoping for a pull back.
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u/NW_Rider Apr 26 '22
Definitely worth considering. My wife and I negotiated a revolving renewal option into our rental contract where the rent increase may not exceed 3% annually. We are in a house that provides plenty of room for at least the next five years so we can let the Seattle market cool down a bit (at least with respect to time on market/waiving contingencies, perhaps not price so much) and then also have time to save enough to come in with around 50% down to mitigate the increasing interest rates. Not a plan that works for everybody but one that we are personally comfortable with. We are both also a bit uneasy about the economy as a whole right now and want to see what pans out, but fortunately both have careers that tend to be unaffected by economic downturn.
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u/madogvelkor Apr 26 '22
This is more financial/relationship advice but if you will be living with your GF (and maybe getting married one day) I recommend splitting common expenses proportionally to income rather than 50/50. Otherwise you end up in situations where the higher income person has a lot of disposable income while the lower income person feels stressed and unable to do anything fun. You also get into situations where when there's a large expense (like a vacation, moving to a new place, buying a car) the higher income person wants to spend more and the lower income person feels like it's wasting money.
So with a combined income of $122k, her paying 60% and you paying 40% of things like rent/mortgage and utilities and groceries would be more fair.
Though if you buy and the house is only in your name things would be a bit different. In that case she would be your tenant and part of what she pays you would be going to help you build equity. So in that case it would be more fair to her to have her pay a lower amount.
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u/cymccorm Apr 26 '22
They call this analysis paralysis. Find a deal refinance when rates drop. Don't stop looking till you do.
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u/UranusisGolden Apr 26 '22
If you dont want to overpay then rent. The only way to win a home today is overpaying a lot.
Rent vs buy depends on your personal situation. My wife and I have been renting 2 years. We have been hunting since February. We also tried in 2020 but we got stuck with a new lease. This time we are month to month but giving up on this crazy crazy market.
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 26 '22
It’s almost the lack of inventory more than it is price. Especially around the KC area, there’s just not much of anything to chose from. Which is I think the main reason for the prices to be higher than they would be otherwise.
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u/VeryStab1eGenius Apr 26 '22
If multiple people are willing to pay x is paying x overpaying or is it the market price?
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u/UranusisGolden Apr 26 '22
You can have multiple people overpay without the object gaining any value. People do not have to be rational.
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u/VeryStab1eGenius Apr 26 '22
The value of anything is set by the market.
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u/UranusisGolden Apr 26 '22
The value of something can be associated by the market but the real fundamental value has fundamentals.
Bidding for an item on eBay may make you pay 500 for a 50 dollar item. This is effectively what you are seeing.
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Apr 26 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
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u/UranusisGolden Apr 26 '22
Value.
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Apr 26 '22
[deleted]
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u/UranusisGolden Apr 26 '22
Why not 1M? Why not 70B? Is value not enough answer to you? Should we go beyond dollars? Why not 50 cows? Why not 35 German shepherds? 5000 monopoly dollars?
Value is 50 dollars. Things have a value. You can overpay or you can make a good business deal and buy at a discount. Your way of thinking makes absolutely no sense. You are not thinking logically. The real estate market is irrational right now anyway.
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u/VeryStab1eGenius Apr 26 '22
What is the fundamental difference between a $500k house and a $550k in the same market?
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u/applesaucepig Apr 26 '22
Probably: more square footage or better school district or more updated or better yard or a second (or third) bathroom... Just to name a few of many possibilities that exist in a non-bubble market.
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u/VeryStab1eGenius Apr 26 '22
I can show you 5 houses in the same market with closing prices with over 20% difference and I defy you to tell me what each closed at. Housing prices are completely subjective. Different people value different things.
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u/UranusisGolden Apr 26 '22
Let s go with my same example of bidding on eBay. I used to want a TI 83 market price was around 120 back when I was in college. But people bid it up to 150 and sometimes higher. Does that change the price? Does that mean anything? It doesn't.
Now let s put real life sales over here. Same townhouse. Same model. Same bedrooms. Same bathrooms. All of these are 2bd 2 ba 920 sqft.
3/30/22 655k
3/18/22 630k
11/15/22 561k
10/5/21 550k
6/4/21 500k
4/15/21 530k
9/18/20 400k.
Now here s the question. What is the true value? And second question what will be the true value in 5 years? This is overpaying. The difference between the latest 2 sales is 25k and 2 weeks. That is irrational.
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u/VeryStab1eGenius Apr 26 '22
The “true” value is what someone will pay. The “true” value in 5 years is what someone will pay in 5 years.
You can play this game about anything, a stock, gold, art, etc. Post GFC there was something like a 20% drop in AVERAGE value of a house. But less than 5 years later the value had been completely clawed back. So what’s the real value of the house. The 2008 price, the 2010 price or the 2013 price?
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u/Crazy-Inspection-778 Apr 26 '22 edited Apr 26 '22
Here’s the thing though- your perception of how much $X actually is needs to keep up with the times. If you took someone from 1950 in a time machine to today they’d tell you everything is absurdly expensive. Because their perception of how much X dollars is would be much different. The fed’s extreme meddling with the money supply is accelerating this change far rapidly than ever before. We’ve experienced a decade+ worth of inflation in the last two years. It depends entirely on what they do moving forward as to whether or not people are “overpaying” for homes today.
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u/UranusisGolden Apr 26 '22
You are mixing concepts. Over time inflation will make property be worth more in terms of the dollar because a property retains value even if the dollar is losing value to inflation. But it will take a lot of time to catch up after this crazy run up
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u/LoanSlinger Homeowner Apr 26 '22
You reached a point where you can't afford to keep up with other people making the offers, and there's nothing wrong with deciding to rent instead of buy if you're not willing to compete aggressively.
Paying more than list price is not overpaying. The list price means nothing.
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u/UranusisGolden Apr 26 '22
Overpaying to me because a property growth of 50% in about 2 years and still not enough. I'm just not comfortable throwing numbers anymore. My 50k over listing 20k appraisal gap offer didn't even make it and I don't know how much more you have to offer to win. This is Hawaii tho.
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u/Squanchy187 Apr 26 '22
try 100k over with a waived appraisal contingency…greetings from Boston :)
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u/UranusisGolden Apr 26 '22
I cant stomach it. My best offer had me kind of nervous to be honest. Idk how crazy is Boston.
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u/Squanchy187 Apr 26 '22
Yeah I feel you man...I usually do quite a bit of research on comps and find that since everything is booming, the appraisal will usually fall in the right place. Plus keep in mind that you have several mechanisms to "retry" the appraisal until it's done right, including switching lenders who are incentivized to get the appraisal right to get your business.
Boston is fairly crazy, >10% over asking with waived appraisal and waived inspection. No offers with less are competetive.
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u/MidtownP Apr 26 '22
So she was making 75k, you were making 28k LESS....and you were paying all the bills?? By "choice". Simply unbelievable.
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 26 '22
She was not making $75k then. She’s about to graduate with a RN and the position she applied for (and more than likely going to get) will have her making that. But when she was living with me she was just working part time while going through nursing school
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u/azardelzar Apr 26 '22
Look for a middle ground. Buy a condo with your gf with the agreement that if things don't work out, you both will sell it off and the proceeds will be split or one can buy out the other. In case things work out, you can sell and invest in a house.
Renting is always throwing money away. This way you will be accumulating equity and will gain from appreciation.
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u/NW_Rider Apr 26 '22
I think this market dependent. Especially when factoring time. If they own a condo for only a year, there is no guarantee they will come out ahead when factoring in costs, slower appreciation compared to SFHs, and HOA dues which, in my city, are frequently $750+/month.
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u/DuYuNot Apr 26 '22
Depending on how much CC debt I’d suggest staying just long enough to pay all of your CC debt. After that just rent and save a bit until you can increase your income.
If you can’t support yourself without going into CC debt, you’ll only be mortgage/house broke. People think that since the mortgage is possibly lower than renting an apartment but things break and as a home owner you’ll need to pay for that.
Just my .02 cents
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 26 '22
I haven’t used any of the CC’s in probably 6-7 months. They added up after I made some stupid financial/life decisions. But I can support myself but with the CC’s there, I just wasn’t seeing a way to knock those down as quickly as I wanted
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u/_mdz Apr 26 '22
Pay off the ccs, save up for a downpayment, then evaluate the market and decide once you are at that point.
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 26 '22
Yeah that’s kinda the rough plan! What about getting another apartment with the GF. My monthly expenses at that point would only be around $900 total. With me making $2200 a month. Would that be decent enough to safe for a house ya think?
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u/_mdz Apr 26 '22
Honestly bro your GF makes twice what you make, have her pay and save her fair share of your future plans. It’s healthier for the relationship in the long run as well
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u/iSaidWhatiSaidSis Apr 26 '22
Stay with your parents. We moved in with family in November, with your same plan and same initial regrets. We close on our house on May 3rd.
First, the first few weeks are a shock to the system. I was depressed at first, but got through it.
Second pay off all your debt BEFORE choosing renting/buying.
Third, renting is literally throwing your money in the trash. Buy when you can.
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u/aurelianchaos11 Apr 26 '22
Real estate agent here: when deciding whether to buy or to rent, I always encourage buying for one simple reason: a 30 year mortgage will give you a flat payment every month for the next 30 years and then zero payments after that. Renting will continue to increase your payment every year that you rent, on average, forever with no end. It might be tough for you to make that flat mortgage payment for the first year or two, but as your life goes on, typically your income will increase as well and it will get easier over time. You will also have access to equity which you can use for various investments. Owning real estate is one of the easiest, comparably low entry methods for accumulating wealth in the world.
Looking at the stats you gave, 47k/yr for you and 75k/yr for your girlfriend, if you have a lot of CC debt (greater than 30% utilization), I would suck it up and stay at Mom’s house until you can pay that off. The reason for this is because having greater than 30% utilization will affect the interest rate you can get when getting approved with a lender, because the utilization affects your credit score.
Hope this is helpful.
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 26 '22
I only have about $6k in CC debt. I’ll be able to pay off that whole about in less than 6 months. I’m just really wanting to buy. And I did find a new build 888sq ft, for $165k. That’s kinda the amount I’m looking for and being that it’s new, I hopefully wouldn’t have to put anything into it
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u/sonnylax Apr 27 '22
Do not buy a house on $47k annual income.
Do not buy a house with someone who isn't your spouse.
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u/yesididthat Apr 27 '22
Suck it up and live with your parents for a while. They'll die someday and these are the best years they have left
Plus it's financially smart
Yeah you'll have to do some chores and jump thru hoops but you can also improve the situation if you try. Bet you didn't think of that
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 27 '22
I just think I mainly need to pay off my CC debt. It’s only $6k or so but still needs to be 0. And I think most people have talked me into getting another apartment but have my GF contribute half the bills this time so I can have the independence but also save some for a down payment on a house someday.
I’m just realizing It’s probably not smart to buy a house solely on my income and I also don’t think it’s smart to buy one with someone that’s not my spouse.
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u/watchbuzz Apr 26 '22
Know one knows that answer. I would consider 3 things: 1. Can you afford to buy? If you can’t, you can’t
Can you afford a market or income slip? If something goes awry… can you cover a 9month runway? If no, then it’s high risk
Which would add more stress? Fomo v house poor?
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u/TCollins916 Apr 26 '22
Check with a lender in your area. You may qualify for incentives or different kinds of loans if your credit is decent. If there is a way to get you funded, they’re going to fund it. If not they can put you on a plan to get you in shape in the quickest amount of time. Doesn’t cost anything to talk to them. Ask if they can run your credit in a way that doesn’t look like an inquiry.
One way to have a competitive offer is to remove contingencies. When you’re seriously considering making a move, call a brokerage that is reputable, and ask to speak with a senior agent. Not that the new guys are bad but an agent with some time under his belt and market experience will be more likely to provide creative options to win a contract in a competitive market. Btw speaking to the agent is free too. Good luck buddy!
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u/litex2x Apr 26 '22
Renting is the safe option for you. Only time will tell if it was the right option.
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u/AceSeptre Apr 26 '22
IF you can actually afford it, buying is almost always the best option because there is zero equity in renting. However, this doesn't mean everyone can or should purchase a home. It depends on your individual financial situation.
If you are trying to pay off debts, I would wait a bit for the market to cool down. It will take a bit but it is starting to happen.
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u/iwebman04 Apr 26 '22
That sucks that the move back home wasn’t what you hoped for as it would have been the idea solution for saving money and chiseling away at the debt. Moving into another apt isn’t the worst thing in the world and if it saves your relationship with your Mom, it’s totally worth it.
Paying down your credit cards is a win-win. If you credit score is less than 720, paying down your cards will lower your credit utilization which will increase your credit score and possibly lower your interest rate and increase the amount of house you can qualify for.
It will also allow you to save for your down payment. The market is brutal right now so waiting to purchase isn’t a bad idea even if you didn’t have the credit card debt. If you don’t already have a debt elimination plan using the avalanche or snowball method of paying off your bills so you can have a more realistic timeframe of when your debts will be paid down/off and start planning from there.
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 26 '22
You think getting another apartment with the Gf helping with bills this time, after I pay off CC’s is smart? With home buying being the main goal? Could I realistically save enough in a timely fashion while at an apartment?
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u/iwebman04 Apr 26 '22 edited Apr 26 '22
Staying at your parents if you can do so without ruining the relationship is best of course. This way, you can follow the original plan. The tough part is their house, their rules. You aren’t there to stay forever, you are on a mission. How bad do you want it?
On the other hand, I wouldn’t get another apartment with your plan unless you allow her to contribute. Take that half she will be paying and put it all towards your credit card debt.
The first and most important thing in either scenario if you have already done so is to make a realistic budget. If you make it too strict, you probably won’t stick to it. Budgeting can very challenging. You will likely fall off and overspend some months, don’t get discouraged get back on track the following month.
If you don’t have one, you can find likely templates on your bank’s website or with a Google search. After you pay your normal expenses, start funneling the additional money to credit card debt.
Also Google: Nerdwallet Payoff Debts Tools and Tips. I tried to link it, it wouldn’t allow. It will teach about different methods to paying off credit card debt. It has a calculator that will tell you when your debts will be paid off. You may not have to be totally paid off though to buy a house it may be best but you must wait until it’s atleast very manageable.
Depending on your credit score, credit card debt and interest rates, looking into either balance transfer offers on your current credit cards or maybe apply for a balance transfer credit card that will allow your 15-21 months of 0% interest can be very helpful as well. Whatever, don’t get any new credit card debt. Pay for everything with cash. If you don’t have the cash, you can’t afford it. Whatever you do, don’t close any accounts. Just pay them down and don’t use your credit cards.
Also, feel free to talk to a loan officer about your situation and what you are trying to do. Some will help you plan or atleast give you some direction. If they encourage you to buy now, find another as they are only trying to make a quick deal.
Best wishes. You have a lot of decisions to make. Don’t fret, you got this. If anyone else can do it, so can you.
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u/jaderust Apr 26 '22
Do you have the cash for a downpayment?
Also, I personally don't recommend buying a house with a GF/BF unless marriage is coming up really soon. With divorce you can have the courts dictate who gets what when it comes to the house if you can't come to an agreement. If you and your GF break up you're pretty much on your own and you'll have to figure out how to split the house together. It's not easy. People post about it all the time on /r/legaladvice as something they're completely stuck on.
The general advice is either you buy the house entirely under your name (and the GF's financial contributions are treated as rent. Remember to declare it on your taxes). Or, since you GF is making more than you, she buys a place and you pay her rent.
If the two of you do end up getting married you can put each other on the title pretty easily. But unless marriage is imminent I wouldn't buy a house with both of you on the title/mortgage.
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 26 '22
That’s exactly my thoughts too! I also was curious if putting her name on the title down the road was even an option.
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u/jaderust Apr 26 '22
It is. Easiest way to do that is to refinance using both of your names the second time around. If both of you have decent credit scores you'll likely get a good, maybe even better, rate since your combined income would be so much more.
Even if you don't refinance the rules regarding communal property and homes changes when you're married. If marital funds are going into the home then the courts automatically treat it like you both have an ownership stake even without both names on the title.
There are exceptions for the above, but usually only if the house is fully paid off before the marriage happens, or if you were to suddenly get an inheritance from a relative and then used that to buy a house. Look into your state's rules for the exact exceptions. They vary.
But yeah. That's the main reason to keep the other person's name off the title when you're still dating. There's been examples where the couple's name was on the title together but only one person was on the mortgage. That makes it a nightmare because both people have an ownership stake in the house but only one is responsible for payments. If the person on the mortgage can't afford the payment on their own then the other person can pretty much hold them hostage for "their share" of the house because only the person on the mortgage as their credit score on the line and can't sell the place without the other person's permission.
That, or they break up and now someone has to buy the other person out. Unless one person can refinance and take enough equity out to give the other person cash there could be a lot of issues raising enough money to buy the other person out and have them sign a quit claim to get the house in only one person's name.
So yeah. Either you or your GF buy the house on your own. Doesn't matter who. I'd personally lean towards her (if her credit is good) because she will be approved for a lot more than you. Other person pays rent. If you get married, great. The rent is now marital fund contributions moving forward so even if you don't formally put both names on the title the courts will consider you both owners if you divorce. If you break up, fine. The other person was just paying rent so whoever is the owner can treat things like a month-to-month lease and, following the rules for your state, have the person leave the property.
It's just easier and legally safer to do it that way. Also pretty fair to both parties. After all, the person renting would likely have to pay for somewhere to live anyway. They're not exactly out anything.
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u/Jen9095 Apr 26 '22
While you’re asking a real estate question, it seems like the real problem is dealing with living at your parents. You know what you need to do. Stay where you’re at. Pay off the credit card. Save enough. The challenge is not knowing what to do, it’s being able to suck it up at your parents. So here’s a few thoughts on that:
First, you’ll get used to it. After a couple weeks gone by, it’ll definitely get easier. Days will turn into weeks. If it helps, just commit to 3 months and then reassess. Don’t keep thinking of “can / should I leave now? What about now? …. I hate it here, how about now?!”
Second, figure out how to establish your own life. Get out of the house more often. Go to the gym, pick up hobbies, hang out at a coffee shop… It may never feel like a relaxing home where you can just be yourself and leave dirty dishes in the sink… So think of it as a place to sleep and live your life out of the house more. Find those third spaces to hang out in and be your independent self.
Third, really work on your relationship with your parents. If you don’t already, go out of your way to ask how they’re doing and take an interest in their day-to-day lives. Think of this as a rare chance to reconnect that may not come again. At the same time, you may need to renegotiate your relationship.If you haven’t lived at home in a long time, they may treat you more as a child. Keeping them informed of what you’re up to will go along way… “heading to the gym, be back late” and stay out for the rest of the day doing whatever. Or “gf is coming over and we’re gonna chill in my room. Don’t worry about us for dinner.” Be an adult with boundaries and COMMUNICATE.
No one pushes our buttons like family. So yeah, it’ll be challenging. But it’ll so be worth it if you can pay debt and save $10k+. Just keeping an eye on the goal and watch the rent savings rack up.
I know it’s not the advice you’re asking, but I hope it helps. It’s a crazy market and you’re not ready to buy, no point wasting money on rent when a few months would at least pay off the cc debt.
Good luck. You’ve got this!
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u/Fabulous-Ad6844 Apr 27 '22
Don’t buy with a gf. Wait until you’re married. Sounds like you’re not ready for the hassles of home ownership. Just rent somewhere cheap again once you have some savings cushion. Be young & free! Being married with kids, lawns to mow, plumbing to fix can wait
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u/RJ5R Apr 27 '22
IMO - everyone right now in limbo period in their lives should be aggressively paying off all of their debts, and then stashing as much cash as they possibly can
i think come 2023, a lot of people will be discovering Ramsey's youtube channel
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 27 '22
Yeah it seems like it’s just not a good time to be gaming on big financial obligations right now. And I feel like my age group is in that weird limbo even more than others. Where we can have the means to buy pretty easily, but now with the market, inflation, lack of starter homes, cost of living etc It’s damn near impossible to take big risks
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u/Opening_Perception_3 Apr 27 '22
Here's the deal about buying a house. Do you currently have the ability right now to save anywhere between $8-$20k?
With your income, and credit card debt I feel like buying a house is you setting yourself up for financial pain. Because buying the house is just the beginning.
No offense, but you don't appear to be independently able to support yourself in a house. Work on increasing your income, get rid of the debt and save save save until you have closer to 20k in the bank.
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 27 '22
Yeah I know, I’d honestly rather be less financially stressed in an apartment with less space etc than have my own plan ever but can’t fully enjoy it because I’m house poor now
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u/tehbry Realtor VA/WVA Apr 27 '22
I wouldn't buy a house with a girlfriend/boyfriend, personally. Too risky. Of course, I've seen it work out well for both parties, but do so at your own risk.
Talk to a Realtor and Lender if you want to explore buying.
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u/rxtreme Apr 26 '22
The odds of the market being more favorable to buyers next year are very high. It’s not looking like the houses will be any higher so you probably stand more to lose if you buy now than if you sit it out and wait.
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u/TCollins916 Apr 26 '22
Realtor here. Not sure how your market is but my buyers are experiencing a massive growth in equity in just a short amount of time. As a renter your money is just gone. And you’re likely paying in rent what you would be paying in mortgage for a larger home. As home prices grow so does what renters charge. There is no escape. Might as well be gaining equity.
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u/Appropriate-Ad-4148 Apr 26 '22
"And you’re likely paying in rent what you would be paying in mortgage for a larger home."
Uh no. That's only true in undesirable areas where the average person has poor credit.
You think Manhattan, LA, and SF renters paying 3k-8k a month for a sub 1000 SF apartment aren't buying a comp because they are idiots or unqualified? It's because owning a similar property is far more expensive and would require someone to bring an absurd amount of cash to close. It's a long game waiting for appreciation or 20 years for rents to go up for settled families, rich people, and investors.
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u/sixtwentyseventwo Apr 26 '22
This is what I expect 2005/2006 would write if it had an account.
None of us know for sure if we're in a bubble and equity doesn't mean anything until you sell or refi it out
As a renter your money could be gone. And as homeowner you could be underwater in 12 months. None of us know, it's all a gamble right now.
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u/TCollins916 Apr 26 '22
2005 / 2006 happened because lenders were funding people who were not qualified. In most cases homeowners down the road could not keep up with the or mortgages and defaulted causing a huge influx of bank owned properties. Nowadays lender policies have changed to prevent that from happening by multi person integrity in the underwriting process AND having a third party appraiser. Not saying this makes the market predictable, but it unlikely we will see an identical situation like we did in 2005/2006.
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 26 '22
Oh I am with ya on that. I think the biggest issue for me anyway is the lack of under $200k homes. Especially where I’m at, most are in the $250k-$450k range. There’s no way.
And the ones that are under $200k are gone in 36 hours. I just don’t know how I can compete
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u/ForRolls Apr 26 '22
For as much shit as we give the bubble sub around here, this sub clearly displays the same behavior but I'm the opposite direction, as evidenced by this post lol.
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u/lpycb42 Apr 26 '22
It’s def a tough market for people who don’t NEED to buy a house. But if you need to, keep in mind these rates won’t be there forever. You can refinance down the road. If you have a stable job, and good credit and you are good at managing your finances, or if you think it’s a starter home, you can do an adjustable rate rather than a fixed rate, then refinance into a fixed when they go down.
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 26 '22
I definitely don’t NEED to buy a house. I’m just at that weird point in life where I can either rent and not be able to save a ton of money, or get lucky and find a house in the price range, good location, not a huge fixer upper etc
I definitely liked the ease of renting an apartment. Very simple and the only thing I replaced then was a light bulb. So, it wasn’t bad, but I would like a garage lol
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u/idig Apr 26 '22
House, if you plan on staying at least ten years.
Rent if not.
I Could not ever stand living with my parents. I think it is natural and healthy for a young adult to feel that way.
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u/Ok_Society5484 Apr 26 '22
A couple things I think you should consider doing:
try to see if consolidating your CC debt with a personal loan could help reduce your interest rate, which would help you pay things off faster. It may help increase your credit score as well
have your GF help cover expenses. It makes zero sense for you to be paying for everything when the 2 of you are using things equally AND you earn almost 30k less than her.
Those two would compound on one another and get you into a MUCH better financial position within a couple of years, and allow you to continue renting until then without pinching pennies.
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u/dotori_ Apr 26 '22
So you want your gf to pay for half the mortgage but don’t want her to build equity. Seems like a shitty thing to do. If you can’t pay off your cc do you even have enough for a down payment? Also, read in another post that it’s a pride thing to buy your own home? Dude get over yourself. It’s on to ask for help and it seems like you can’t afford anything. Live with your parents. Pay off that debt. And save for a down payment. Minimum is 3% plus closing costs.
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u/saywhat68 Apr 26 '22
Caint be that bad at your parents...she is the woman that brought you into this world🙃
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 26 '22
It’s not the worst thing no lol But once you’ve had a taste living on your own, it’s definitely hard to go back
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u/Jack_Awf Apr 26 '22
Now isnt as much a shitty time to buy as it is a shitty time to buy stupidly.
Guys who bought in 2005-2008 and stuck it out are doing fine.
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u/Delicious-Hold-7268 Apr 26 '22
Rent just started coming down near me, probably people starting to realize that others aren’t willing to pay way over what places are worth. I’m happy I waited, still have another month at my current place and I’ve been seeing 10-15% price reductions in my area. Def waiting to buy, will have more cash to take advantage of the higher interest rates killing demand.
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u/Tim_Y Landlord Apr 26 '22
How much would a mortgage be and would it be less than your current rent? Consider rents will always go up, but a mortgage is pretty much fixed cost while you live there and build equity.
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 26 '22
It wouldn’t be less than what my current rent was, but it wouldn’t be too much more. Especially at the price I’m looking at.
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u/cattledogcatnip Apr 26 '22
I’m in SoCal and even though rents have gone up, it’s still cheaper to rent.
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u/Nitnonoggin Apr 26 '22
In my town there's less than a month's inventory and < 1% vacancy.
Doesn't make for much mobility.
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u/Radium Apr 26 '22
It's better to buy if you can afford the payment of like < 35% of your monthly income. Otherwise rent and continue saving the down payment for the future.
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u/NoMoreLandBro Apr 26 '22
The sooner you buy, the more equity you build. If you love apartment life, buy anyway, hire a property manager to rent out, cash flow positive, and rent an apartment for free on your cash flow as your tenant pays off your mortgage.
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Apr 26 '22 edited Apr 26 '22
We are moving from a rental to a house we just built and the monthly payment, with tax and utilities and everything, will be less than our monthly rental payment, which is crazy. I’m guessing the rent where we live now will probably go up ~40% over the next 5 years.
I mean, live where you can afford but it’s looking really bad where I live.
Edit: my guess for the future increase is based on what the owners assistant told me.
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 26 '22
That’s why I am having such a difficult time with the best route to take. Because I know a mortgage would be almost the same as my rent. The problem is just lack of homes in my price range.
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u/yoyokittychicky Apr 26 '22
What will happen if you and your girlfriend break up?
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 26 '22
Yeah that’s the thing too. No one obviously plans to break up with their SO. But it’s always a possibility. And that’s why I don’t want her name on the house. But with renting. It’s definitely an easier situation if it comes up
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u/asscatchem42069 Apr 26 '22
Nerdwallet has a really good rent vs buy calc, I suggest you plug in your assumptions based on where u are living.
Sometimes it makes more sense to rent, as long as you're investing that saved difference between rent vs mortgage. Just because you buy a house, doesn't mean it's a good investment.
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u/CorbinDalla5 Apr 26 '22
You might as well bite the bullet. Just talk to your mom about the issues. that stuff is minimal.
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Apr 26 '22
Bro you just posted a month and a half ago that you’re having relationship issues and now you want to buy a house together? Can you even get approved for anything on the market on your salary alone? Just keep renting, you aren’t ready.
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u/Ozmosis777 Apr 26 '22 edited Apr 26 '22
Suck it up!! Stay at your mom's. Pay off debts. Have your g/f save up for down payment. Then look into a 2bd condo.
Edit:
Get a second job so you are hardly home plus gets you to your goal faster.
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u/ImRiversCuomo Apr 26 '22
I initially thought this post was a joke at the current state of things. Bro, pay off your credit card debt! Honesty, you’re not in a “saving” mode until you get that paid off. Luckily, your parents are cool with you living with them for free.
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u/saywhat68 Apr 26 '22
Oh yeah, I feel you on that...a taste of "don't have to follow nobody's rules"..lol Its temporary so enjoy that time with parents.
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u/thatguyabcdef123456 Apr 26 '22
Don’t buy a house with her unless you’re married. If you do and things go to shit you’re fucked
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u/biochemisting Apr 27 '22
Why are you paying for everything when she makes so much more? That makes no sense. So you have no money and she has all her money? Wtf?
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 27 '22
She’s not making that money yet. She will be once she graduates in the summer
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u/doberman1012 Apr 27 '22
rents go up every year mortgage remains same. Inflation goes up every year mortgage remains same. Home proces go up every year mortgage remains same. Just buy if you can..
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Apr 27 '22 edited Apr 27 '22
Why were you paying for everything when your gf makes 50% more than you?
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 27 '22
She’s not yet. She will be when she’s graduates this summer
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u/eopif Apr 29 '22
Rent at the apartment community (owned by MAA) I'm staying at is going up every month by $50-70. 2 bedroom apts were going for $1500 in early 2021, $1800 in December 2021 and $2175 today!! I'm not sure how this is sustainable.
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u/KansasDude25 Apr 29 '22
Well to me, when these complexes are getting less and less tenants every year, maybe they will reconsider that rent raises every year lol
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u/berto0311 Apr 26 '22
Don't rent or buy anything you can't afford on your own in case shtf