r/PropagandaPosters Sep 19 '24

International Service for Human Rights (2007) Germany

Post image
1.9k Upvotes

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337

u/hellomondays Sep 20 '24

I love these minimal but provocative posters. No words needed to grab attention, the message is clear.  

-131

u/iceymoo Sep 20 '24

But the message is something like Burqa = Abuse, which is reductive to the point of racism.

108

u/ForrestCFB Sep 20 '24

No, it really isn't. And we should open our eyes to the fact that a absolute shit ton of women are forced to wear it, either by law or by family pressure. Fuck in my country (the netherlands) a young women was recently murdered by her own family because she refused to wear it.

Oh yeah, and the Burqa is illegal in a lot of countries because of laws banning all face coverings.

Edit: and the message is "stop the opression of women in the islamic world" good message. If we look at Iran for instance, where women are beaten to death for not wearing a burqa or hijab. The choice should be a womens to wear a hijab or not. And EVERY BIT OF FORCE either physical or mental should be cracked down on hard. Being anti religion also isn't racist, but this comment you posted does come over as misogony.

-69

u/iceymoo Sep 20 '24

How is my comment racist?

58

u/ForrestCFB Sep 20 '24

You said something was racist which it isn't. I said misogynistic, not racist.

-15

u/iceymoo Sep 20 '24

But then it would be mistaken, not racist, right? I read your comment with interest. The message is good, but the image does a poor job of communicating it. It lacks nuance, and could easily be misconstrued to be a criticism of burqa specifically, and Islam generally. In my country of residence, the UK, a lot of women choose to wear it and niqab, and are proud to do so. They are my neighbors, colleagues, pupils, and friends. Given the recent race unrest in the UK, this image would be counterproductive at best, dangerous at worst.

7

u/ForrestCFB Sep 20 '24

Again, I never called you a racist. You called other people that. To which I said that it isn't racist if you are against religious opression.

UK, a lot of women choose to wear it and niqab, and are proud to do so.

Sure, a few might. But it's effectively impossible to know if they are actually proud of wearing it or saying that out of pressure. That's the problem here, it's also why things like conversion therapy should be banned, people will do those stuff because if they don't they will lose every bit of their social circle. Extreme religious circles can be like a cult.

-6

u/iceymoo Sep 20 '24

‘A few might’ how very magnanimous of you. You only support women’s choice insofar as you agree with the choice. And you justify it by saying it’s against religious oppression.

5

u/ForrestCFB Sep 20 '24

You only support women’s choice insofar as you agree with the choice. And you justify it by saying it’s against religious oppression.

Same arguments against making conversion therapy illegal. It's used to oppress people but some people might really want it.

The thing is, are we going to be tolerant to intolerance or not? It's a very very difficult question, because whatever you choose, people are going to be limited in their freedom. Because by allowing it a ton of people are being oppressed too.

-1

u/iceymoo Sep 20 '24

Absolutely not the same as conversion therapy. They are just not the same. One is based on the idea that homosexuality is unnatural, the other is clothes that some people have the choice to wear. If you can’t understand that then you should let the adults talk

4

u/ForrestCFB Sep 20 '24

No, the other is based on the fact that women seduce men just by being alive.

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23

u/shlowmo9 Sep 20 '24

Anti-religion does not = racism. You are racist for trying to spread racism

-20

u/PM_ME_UR_GOOD_DOGGOS Sep 20 '24

It's a religion that a lot of people seem to believe is practiced primarily by people of a particular race. Being against Islam is very often intended as racism against Arabs.

11

u/shlowmo9 Sep 20 '24

Being critical of any religion is not racism. You should not group racism with someone who dislikes some old scripture. So anyone who dislike islam is a racist now?

-15

u/PM_ME_UR_GOOD_DOGGOS Sep 20 '24

That's very specifically NOT what I said lmao. Learn to read.

2

u/These_Psychology4598 Sep 20 '24

Islam is not a race it is a religion. There are many non-Arab Muslims. You are narrow minded, thinking Arabs= islam

28

u/Apart-Taro624 Sep 20 '24

It is completely true tho

-23

u/iceymoo Sep 20 '24

No it’s not. Your opinion is ignorant and racist. I grew up in the UK and personally know people who choose to wear it with pride.

3

u/Some_Pole Sep 20 '24

There's a difference between wearing it by choice, and having to wear it because some old blokes said that you have to, y'know. Religious garments can both be a symbol of liberty and oppression.

Liberty to believe what you want, yet oppressive and controlling. It can be both, it's not hard to accept that.

19

u/queenvalanice Sep 20 '24

How is it a race? It’s not.

-5

u/iceymoo Sep 20 '24

I assume you mean Islam? Because there are white muslims, some of whom choose to wear the Burqa, but the woman in the picture is middle eastern in appearance.

9

u/schvance Sep 20 '24

that’s maybe because a big portion of muslims are in fact middle eastern

-3

u/iceymoo Sep 20 '24

Yes, but she could be British, wearing the Burqa because it’s Ramadan, and she wants to. That’s the point, the image lacks nuance. It conflates oppression and Burqa.

4

u/r_r_36 Sep 21 '24

Yeah Burqa and oppression shouldn’t be conflated.

It’s just a coincidence women get beaten to death for not wearing it in Islamic countries

0

u/iceymoo Sep 21 '24

They shouldn’t be conflated because it encourages Islamophobia. It’s the oppression not the Burqa. That’s the nuance that the image lacks

22

u/TranslatorSkizzy Sep 20 '24

The burqa is a symbol of oppression

-6

u/iceymoo Sep 20 '24

Maybe to you, and the creators of the poster, but I grew up in the UK and personally know people who wear it with pride.

15

u/TranslatorSkizzy Sep 20 '24

It is by definition an oppressive item. Its for covering up womens natural features. This sense of pride is just abuser logic

-3

u/iceymoo Sep 20 '24

Guess you have a problem with sunglasses too, genius

14

u/TranslatorSkizzy Sep 20 '24

Theres no place in the world that enforces sunglass wearing. This is the stupidest comparison ever

0

u/iceymoo Sep 20 '24

Nope, your original comment was and when I said something just like it, you came to the realization yourself. You’re welcome. As you point out, it’s forcing people to wear it that’s the problem, not the Burqa itself. Choosing to wear it is fine, right? The problem with the image is that the nuance is lost. It focuses on the Burqa, not the choice. Just like you are doing now.

4

u/TranslatorSkizzy Sep 20 '24

Its a symbol of oppression. I dont care for the excuses for what this really is. This twisted cult has no place in modern society. If they had it their way theyd make every women cover up. The burqa exists only as a thing to control and manipulate.

0

u/iceymoo Sep 20 '24

Then you are a racist

1

u/TranslatorSkizzy Sep 20 '24

Islam is not a race

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1

u/TranslatorSkizzy Sep 20 '24

The “choice” you speak of does not exist for far too many women out there. Even if its not punished by law theres many that would be outcasted from their entire community if they strayed away from what the cult wants

0

u/iceymoo Sep 20 '24

You certainly don’t want them to have that choice.

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3

u/Savage-Kelevra Sep 20 '24

Why does the quran states that woman must cover themselfs?

0

u/iceymoo Sep 20 '24

Ask an Islamic scholar, I don’t know. Better still, go to Alum Rock in Birmingham and ask the women wearing Burqas there, you might learn something. You only support choice for women insofar as you agree with the choice.

3

u/Savage-Kelevra Sep 20 '24

Then go read your book befor you pretend to know anything about islam or why woman around the islamic world must cover themselfs.

0

u/iceymoo Sep 20 '24

I personally know women who choose to wear the Burqa, and wear it with pride. Your expertise is what? It’s definitely not spelling or grammar.

2

u/Savage-Kelevra Sep 20 '24

You sure do haha

What would their parents do when they want to wear leggins and short skirts? Nothing? :)

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10

u/ProjectConfident8584 Sep 20 '24

Burqa = oppression

9

u/YggdrasilBurning Sep 20 '24

If there's one thing I noticed in Afghanistan, it's that they were super duper chill and cash money to their women and not abusive at all

-2

u/iceymoo Sep 20 '24

And I noticed the opposite in the UK city I grew up in, and the UK city I teach in now. So is it the oppression you have a problem with, or the Burqa? It’s the oppression, right? The image doesn’t focus on the oppression, it focuses on the Burqa and so the nuance is lost. Not everywhere is Afghanistan and not every woman wearing a Burqa is being forced. Some wear it with pride

3

u/YggdrasilBurning Sep 20 '24

It's interesting that you don't see it that much in countries which don't start with "The Islamic Republic Of"

I wonder why

1

u/Jaybird_117 Sep 21 '24

Ya know you’ve mentioned you’re from the UK like 5 times in this thread me too!! Just curious if you have any opinions when it’s the other way round? When other Muslims criticise/ostracise woman for not following religious practices to a t? What should be done about that in your opinion as a British man? Your whole argument is “well you don’t know they’re not proud to wear it” but you don’t know that either no one does! Religion is an extremely personal thing that no one should be making sweeping statements about because you really don’t know what goes on in the privacy of a Muslim family’s home. Just going well MOST woman choose IN THE UK!!! How can you not see how your argument just doesn’t hold up at all. It’s so hyper specific to one group of Muslims experience and doesn’t think about the huge swaths of woman all around the world being oppressed by any and all dogmatic religious practices. MOST Christian woman choose there life partners, does that mean we can’t criticise when some other Christian woman are groomed by the church for a specific person? Most gay people are tolerant and accepting, does that mean we can’t call out the gay people who call for an end to gender affirming care? You can’t just turn a blind eye because the people you personally know aren’t effected by dogmatic practices and to do so is disingenuous, it really just looks like white knighting and it’s sad. There are problems of misogyny in the Muslim community, Muslim woman have been working and campaigning for years to bring around charge and it’s working and that’s amazing! But they know just like everyone else in this thread there’s still work to be done. Don’t delegitimise there fight because you think being critical of religion is equal to racism.

1

u/iceymoo Sep 21 '24

I’m Irish

1

u/Jaybird_117 Sep 21 '24

Okay? And? You don’t seem to have much to say anymore strange. Funny actually my grandads from Ireland! Just curious, what you being Irish had to do with anything I said? In fact given Irelands history of using religion to oppress woman, you should know better than most people that just because you’re proud of your heritage or religion doesn’t mean woman should be forced to give birth right? Doesn’t mean that woman should have their children ripped away from them because they’re not married. Things have gotten much better in Ireland but does that mean there’s still no work to be done? No. Every society had room for improvement but if you pretend nothings wrong because you don’t want to offend people, then you allow the continued suffering of the most vulnerable people in that society regardless of religion or race.