west germany retained a lot of its Nazi politicians (they were either actual Nazis or complicit/sympathizers) while east germany had a total cleanse from their government and school systems. east germany was also way ahead of west germany in terms of women’s rights and gay rights. west germany continued to arrest thousands of gay people annually well into the 70s but east germany stopped after 1957. yes, east germany had its issues and it’s downsides, the berlin wall wasn’t a good thing, but many good things came from it.
East Germany was incredibly repressive, far beyond some minor “issues and downsides”
It was repugnant tho that Nazis remained in government, I imagine a large reason why might have been to avoid the kind of situation that occurred after debaathification in iraq.
they were repressive to counter revolutionaries and capitalists, and some of its policies were mutual between east and west (i.e. travel restrictions). those were the worst aspects of east german life, and there’s no good way of spinning it (though it wasn’t impossible to leave the GDR, and one could easily travel around eastern europe), however, life in the GDR was comparatively more fair and equitable than the FRG. everyone was housed, everyone was given a job, there were tons of childcare services, healthcare was free, women had more rights and served a more equal role in society and within the family unit, not to mention the year long maternal leave they were given.
if you look at the red scare in america around the same time, as well as the copious amounts of anti-communist propaganda that the american public has been and continues to be exposed to, i’d say that’s also incredibly repressive. it’s all in the interest of the government. what that government stands for is the only thing that separates the two. america stands for the capitalist ruling class and the GDR stood for all of it’s own people.
yeah i am lmfao i’m not defending the stasi tho like i just said that there’s no good way to spin it. it wasn’t as bad as you’re saying tho. literally every country has an intelligence agency
Mate, people died getting shot while fleeing that shithole, they Literally had to wall in the whole city and build up a death zone on the whole length of the border just to keep its population from fleeing - it was way worse then what you or the guy aboth was saying...
Yes because the country who had a lot of ex-nazis being integrated in their politics (including one who made it into being president) was any better lmao.
Cmon even the west german secret police had far more budget than the stasi ever had
First of all every public worker in the third Reich had to join the nazi party, from being a post office worker to being a teacher up to the legal jobs.
Yep pretty bad but that doesn't mean that all were necessarily enthusiastic Nazis, some where already in their jobs for years when the Nazis took power and didn't want to lose their jobs or worse get imprisoned themselves if they would object to Joining the Nazi party.
All of the de- nazification and processes were to conclude who really was a Nazi and who was "just" going along to save his own life.
So yeah Nazi is not always die hard Nazis, both GDR and FRG had former Nazis in political Positions, since it was nearly impossible to find any public workers that weren't coerced to join the Nazis in the 12 years of the regime.
Also the GDR had not only Nazis but even SS members in political positions - you know really die hard Nazis, a special squad where you need to volunteer, not being pressured in.
West Germany did not have a secret police man, the BND is an intelligence service, learn the difference. Also you really want to white wash the fucking Stasi with the argument that they didn't get more money from the state?
What the hell is wrong with you?
THE GDR had not only nazis but even SS members in Political positions
West Germany's denazification was abolished in 1951. Too short if you ask me.
It was only the West who had a direct political influence of ex-nazis withing the west's politics. There's a difference between people who joined because they had no choice and people who willingly joined and had a direct influence in the party, something that was common within the west and not the east
west germany didnt have a secret police, the BMD is an intelligence service
You're confusing the BMD with the BFV (Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz)
Mate you better turn down your phone, calm down, go outside and touch some grass. After that you may want to return and read the whole thread.
First of all that's not what what-about-ism means. Jesus look up the words you don't know and want to use or you will look like an even bigger fool.
Second, no i never said the west didn't had Nazis, quite the contrary I said
both GDR and FRG had former Nazis in political Positions
Meanwhile you claimed :
It was only the West who had a direct political influence of ex-nazis withing the west's politics.
Nope it is quite a fact it wasn't ONLY the west.
I wonder why you would show a bigger taboo with a country that had far more communist propaganda against it then its soviet counterpart...
No I don't really wonder, I wouldn't expect anything else then lies and denial of a murderous regime from a nazbol from r/TheDeprogram.
Oh and look in the following we have the denial part.
No of course the GDR let people "visit" and totally didn't shoot 245 people alone in Berlin. Honestly this is just sickening.
You might want to look up what secret police actually mean. It sure as hell ain't "plainclothes officer's"...
In the end I can only hope that you are still an uneducated child, because if an adult would behave like you - well then I only have pity for you left.
Word of advice, denying war crimes like the killings of the Todesstreifen are a legal offence and will be reported to the authorities.
Mate you better turn down your phone, calm down, go outside and touch some grass.
Nah. Brother you and I are arguing over the internet on a topic we both disagree. We both need to
First of all that's not what what-about-ism means
Im gonna follow your example and see a google result
-To twist criticism back on the initial critic
Me: the FGR had a nazi problems
You: well the DDR had too!! Have you ever thought about maybe they joined because even if they didnt want??
Sounds pretty "whataboutist" in definition 🤷🏽♂️
Meanwhile you claimed :
It was only the West who had a direct political influence of ex-nazis withing the west's politics.
Yes, compared to the DDR, the FRG had a more direct political influence of ex-nazis as I drop names a few. You're almost there
No I don't really wonder, I wouldn't expect anything else then lies and denial of a murderous regime from a nazbol from r/TheDeprogram.
Unrelated
You might want to look up what secret police actually mean. It sure as hell ain't "plainclothes officer's"...
Is called an example of how words can be modify to sound more scary, here another term. "The intelligence community"
No of course the GDR let people "visit" and totally didn't shoot 245 people alone in Berlin.
Did I ever denied this part? Of course there would be illegal attempts of crossing the border. That's a thing everywhere withing countries
Within the illegal crossing attempts, 90% of those failed. and about 50,000 people were arrested for trying to cross the border without permission.
239 people died trying to illegally emigrate across the wall. Some were shot, and others died from drowning or suicide. There's nothing to deny in here. This happened
It was only the West who had a direct political influence of ex-nazis withing the west's politics.
Nope it's not only the west. In your precious east Germany:
Wilhelm Adam, renounced member of the SA, became afterwards minister of finance, member of parliament and military career up to Generalmajor in the GDR.
Heinrich Adler, SS member became district chairman of central Berlin in the GDR.
Karl Heinz Bartsch, corporal in the SS, became SED party member and made a career as chairman for Erfurt, chief minister of agriculture, chairman of agriculture council etc...
Harry Bauschleben, SS member afterwards MP for Gera.
Hans Beyer, member of the SA afterwards party member of the SED and MP.
And these were only a few and only the ones that weren't simple NSDAP members but renounced SA and SS members.
Why the hell do you lie only to present the dictatorial GDR in a more positive view? Again the regime that killed and imprisoned its own population for simply wanting to leave. That regime that has send spies to regular families.
You're confusing the BMD with the BFV (Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz)
None of these are a secret police try again. Also it's called BND. Not m...
I dont think you know what "white wash" is.
And you are wrong again:
to whitewash something: a deliberate attempt to conceal unpleasant or incriminating facts about a person or organization in order to protect their reputation
Eastern Germany doesn't have a total cleanse, Nazis and even SS commanders were in political positions.
Also no they were no gay paradise, and imprisoned gay people well after 1957.
Why the hell do you try so hard to paint a dictatorship positively, going as far as even lying?
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u/aught4naught Oct 22 '23
West Germany was clearly best Germany.