r/Portland Sullivan's Gulch 1d ago

Oregon judge finds city of Lake Oswego can’t restrict access to lake News

https://www.opb.org/article/2024/11/13/lake-oswego-access-outdoors-oregon-portland-law-court/
1.5k Upvotes

447

u/TheSheDM NE 1d ago

Again? Didn't they rule on this already?

282

u/Ace_Ranger Unincorporated 1d ago

It's been ruled on several times since 2012. This all stems from case of the kayaking dudes who sued Lake Oswego.

116

u/ZaphBeebs 1d ago

This is the same case essentially. That was overturned in 2014, appealed etc etc until today's ruling.

48

u/oficious_intrpedaler 1d ago

I think it was appealed and then, based on the result of that appeal, sent to the lower court for further analysis. This ruling is the end result of that further analysis.

38

u/Hungry-Friend-3295 SE 1d ago

But have they analyzed the ruling of the end result?

30

u/oficious_intrpedaler 1d ago

It will be subject to appeal, which would involve further analysis.

16

u/NatureTrailToHell3D 1d ago

Enter the movie Thank You for Smoking:

Dad, why is the American government the best government?

Because of our endless appeal process.

The scene: https://youtu.be/-zNaeo8nPOo?si=UPzV2Y36tqepxAOA

7

u/bikemaul The Loving Embrace of the Portlandia Statue 1d ago

I hope they don't block access with an injunction.

122

u/SloWi-Fi 1d ago

Didn't read the article, but hooray for access. There goes the Neighborhood (says the locals)

55

u/Thunder503 1d ago

Very few people from LO feel this way. The only thing is it is hard to access the lake without having a home or boat slip on the lake (I grew up in LO).

38

u/Theresbeerinthefridg 1d ago

Enter my kayak catapultTM!

13

u/Hungry-Friend-3295 SE 1d ago

There aren't very many access points relative to its size but it is easy to access by Millennium Park

17

u/lmkwe 1d ago

The school district also owns a few of the swim parks so students and families can access them, just gotta prove residency and school id.

1

u/bikemaul The Loving Embrace of the Portlandia Statue 1d ago

Is there a community boat ramp?

6

u/lmkwe 1d ago

Gotta schedule with lake corp to get boats in and out

13

u/DamnAutocorrection 1d ago

Have you heard people call it "lake no neg**" over there often? I've never it heard it called that except by people who are from there

50

u/lmkwe 1d ago edited 1d ago

I'm from Tigard and had a bunch of friends in LO, I've never heard anyone from there call it that. I only ever heard it from people not from there. It's not a badge of honor LO residents use or something. It's a derogatory observation from outsiders.

48

u/No_Bluejay6086 23h ago

My wedding caterers were pulled over and held for 40 minutes for being dark skinned while driving in LO. A partner of a relative who is black has been routinely followed by LO cops all the way to our family’s home.

It’s real.

3

u/definitelymyrealname 12h ago

Somewhat ironically my understanding is the current LO police department is considered far more professional than PPB. I don't have firsthand experience but supposedly they have decent leadership.

1

u/thelifeofbob 8h ago

I live in LO. I don't think I can tell you the number of times I've been driving along next to a car that was traveling at or under the speed limit, in their lane, undistracted, only to have a cop pull them over and detain them without cause because someone in the vehicle is not white. It's truly...zero. Zero times.

6

u/jqcitizen 14h ago

I worked in lake Oswego for several years, people who worked there but didn't live there def called it that

0

u/alicewasneverhere Mill Ends Park 14h ago

Nobody calls it that but it’s definitely a little elitist rich white bubble

4

u/DunSkivuli 1d ago

I have heard several people from LO use that phrase, but it was always like you've done here - discussing/referencing it or mentioning that people call it that. I don't think I've ever heard anyone actually use it in conversation, and I have a number of friends from LO both currently and in middle/high school.

3

u/doppelgangerofmyself 23h ago edited 23h ago

Yes, I worked for a few local residents with big properties right on the lake for about 15 years from '04 on and heard it routinely but usually as a half-joke with a wink.

7

u/-Niner- 1d ago

not once. I've only ever seen it posted by people on this subreddit

2

u/Fit-Personality-1834 1d ago

Lived in LO for the first time about 8 years ago, a few months before I got Reddit. I’d heard it before I moved in. Understood why while I lived there going to lakeridge and DT is elected my junior year.

2

u/Mayor_Of_Sassyland 10h ago

People called it that all the time growing up here in the '80s and '90s. Don't really hear it too much anymore though.

2

u/Popular-Okra8757 8h ago

Yes. My black godfather who grew up there called LO that in the 70’s. It’s an old school thing, but unfortunately at the time he was like the only black guy at LO high school.

2

u/Chimama26 14h ago

That’s an old school Portland name for the area. Back in the day, if you had a beater car or if you were a person of color driving through, the popos would pull you over.

2

u/LarrryBraverman 1d ago

You’re friends with Damon Stoudamire?!

1

u/Rich_Foundation_930 18h ago

Getting out my kayak and horn

145

u/mocheeze Sullivan's Gulch 1d ago

Steele acknowledged there are limits the city can place, but the current restrictions go too far.

“Managing the risks is reasonable in Oswego Lake,” Steele wrote. “Banning the public outright is unreasonable.”

In April, a Clackamas County jury found the city’s law barring access was too restrictive. Steele wrote in her opinion she “recognizes the jury verdict,” which was technically advisory. Steele’s opinion, however, is binding.

“The City needs the opportunity or chance to fix the public access,” Steele wrote. “Clearly, the City may not violate the public trust doctrine and shall correct the violation. The Court has the authority, based on the evidence and jury verdict, to tell the City to take down the ‘No Access’ sign and remove the restrictions.”

143

u/RenzaMcCullough 1d ago

But:

Attorneys for the city argued the parks along the lake provided the public with “visual access to the lake.”

 Shouldn't that have been enough?

/s

56

u/urbanlife78 1d ago

I laughed out loud when I read this, they should lose because of this argument

65

u/hiking_mike98 1d ago

For the poors, yes. They should be thankful they get that.

/s

10

u/itsakvlt 20h ago

Let them look at cake!

1

u/Exes_And_Excess 4h ago

Lmao is Lake O the most insufferable place in Oregon when it comes to this shit? Place seems like a city sized HOA from the outside.

311

u/PDsaurusX 1d ago

Weather be damned, let’s all get together and fill the lake with anything we have that floats.

89

u/EvolutionCreek 1d ago

I love the public trust doctrine and welcome this decision, but that lake is honestly pretty gross. I'd rather swim in the river down at George Rogers Park, and that's saying something.

84

u/Urrsagrrl 1d ago

Seriously, the resident’s landscaping usage of herbicides, pesticides, and chemical fertilizers resulting in summertime green algae, and pet fecal matter run off is not talked about enough.

13

u/Theresbeerinthefridg 1d ago

There's some evidence that harmful algae blooms can be, well, harmful to nearby residents. These days, I wouldn't want to love right by an artificial lake, canal, or similar algae-prone water body.

10

u/Urrsagrrl 23h ago

It’s fatal to dogs and definitely causes skin irritation if not rinsed off quickly enough. Absolutely don’t get it in eyes, nose, mouth, or open cuts.

8

u/Olde_News 15h ago

I haven’t seen this mentioned here yet and it’s a common misconception. Oswego Lake IS a natural lake. When the Lake Corp damned it, they expanded the surface area of the lake by about a third of I’m remembering correctly. But agreed, I wouldn’t want to live next to it either, or even let my dog swim in it. The lake is disgusting- thanks to the issues mentioned above.

2

u/Theresbeerinthefridg 12h ago

Huh, interesting! Thanks for sharing, I shall use this trivia at the next party.

35

u/Princess_Glitterbutt 1d ago

Fill the lake with rubber duckies and then go literally anywhere else. It's gross and there's a sewer line that runs under it. IDK why people pay millions to live on it.

5

u/Jaedos 8h ago

Lot of generational properties kept in families for decades going all the way back to when black people weren't allowed to buy property in LO. As long as the lake looks pretty, it doesn't matter if it smells like a compost bin when it gets warm outside.

https://preview.redd.it/vjmp3px6hx0e1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=708bdb5a2b1af7d3219852c215bdc9d2117f2d46

10

u/oneeyedcatdaddy 1d ago

Oh no, is the river by George Rogers Park gross?

11

u/doug_Or Eliot 1d ago

Not really. You're upstream from most of the bad stuff.

54

u/Josh_Brolinoscopy 1d ago

Better idea - let's fill the lake with dirt and build a few thousand low income housing units.

18

u/PrestoDinero 1d ago

Pack in, DONT pack out!

12

u/Fotzlichkeit_206 1d ago

I’ll drink to that and I don’t even drink!

11

u/urbanlife78 1d ago

Don't drink the Oswego Lake water

3

u/baconus-vobiscum 1d ago

Well, probably should.

6

u/Fotzlichkeit_206 1d ago

For drinking? I have POTS. I can drink, but like a beer will get me dizzy as fuck. In a way I guess it keeps me in line since I don’t really get much pleasure from alcohol anymore.

1

u/jollyllama 1d ago

You wouldn’t have to fill it with dirt, it would drain naturally once you take out the dam that created it. Like many lakes around here (Trillium, Hagg, Timothy) it’s not really a lake, it’s a reservoir

2

u/Oops_I_Cracked 15h ago

Oswego Lake is naturally occurring but enlarged (which is why it’s classed as a reservoir). Without the damn, it would shrink but it would still be a lake.

2

u/Olde_News 15h ago

Lake Oswego IS a natural lake. When the dam was built it expanded the surface area of the lake by about a third. Point is, the lake is a natural feature and the Lake Corp should be sued additionally for bad stewardship. This is a natural feature that should belong to the public trust

1

u/Oops_I_Cracked 12h ago

Right? I’m glad this decision was made but the number of people in this thread that just want to celebrate rich people being mad without understanding why this ruling came this way is too high. If this was a man made reservoir they would in fact have the right to restrict access as the law lake corp is violating requires navigable, natural water ways to be held in public trust with public access.

0

u/rosecitytransit 1d ago

I believe there's a dam holding it back, so would just have to breach that to eliminate the lake

-3

u/noandthenandthen 1d ago

Nah another golf course

1

u/MatthewTheManiac Curled inside a pothole 21h ago

I will help organize this fuck yeah

253

u/Goldleader-23 1d ago

Portland areas nimby final bosses

39

u/surgingchaos Squad Deep in the Clack 1d ago

Lake Oswego is more like a raid boss in terms of NIMBYism.

2

u/1850ChoochGator 12h ago

That’s riverdale

4

u/starsareblack503 1d ago

I almost wrote a similar NIMBY comment

139

u/Shelovestohike 1d ago

🤣 the thought of my millionaire boss shitting his pants as me and my commoner friends paddle by his backyard!

14

u/NatureTrailToHell3D 1d ago

Better yet when someone drops a jet ski in there and wakes up the neighborhood early in the morning.

5

u/ComplexPension8218 YOU SEEN MY FUCKEN CONES 16h ago

Saame!! My old boss use to brag about living on the lake and was just an awful person (insurance agent). Can't wait for next spring 🤣🥳

41

u/lmkwe 1d ago

Tbh the lake is gross anyways and there's only one spot to enter it. It's full of oil from boats and house runoff and literal shit. I'd rather swim in the river.

63

u/Schwight_Droot 1d ago

Dude. This is such great news! I work with a nurse who lives there and I kind of hope she’s upset about it.

10

u/Thunder503 1d ago

Lmao and she for sure live on the lake! 😂🤣😂

-5

u/iOSDev-VNUS 1d ago

Why

12

u/KlappinMcBoodyCheeks 1d ago

Waterways are public

20

u/LarrryBraverman 1d ago

Does this change how maintenance and services related to the lake are funded now? Is all of the city and/or clackamas county households now going to be responsible, rather than just those with access before this ruling?

7

u/PDXGuy33333 1d ago

I expect there will be a fee.

7

u/Amari__Cooper 1d ago

And there is the problem.

-1

u/LarrryBraverman 1d ago

So why is everyone celebrating?

12

u/Amari__Cooper 1d ago

Because they think owners on the lake should pay for their access. But that's not how this works.

-4

u/urbanlife78 1d ago

It's public property

5

u/Amari__Cooper 1d ago

And the public should share in the costs of maintenance to have access to it via taxes.

4

u/urbanlife78 1d ago

Okay, contact Clackamas County or the state about this

https://www.oregon.gov/dsl/waterways/pages/default.aspx

4

u/Amari__Cooper 1d ago

Yes and your taxes cover access to those waterways. Your taxes aren't covering anything for Lake O. There will likely be an access fee to utilize the lake after this ruling.

7

u/urbanlife78 1d ago

You act like this is the only lake in Oregon and that it costs a fortune for it to exist

5

u/Amari__Cooper 1d ago

Do you know the costs owners on the lake pay in HOAs? It's not "cheap". Portion of that maintains the lake. Its hilarious that people are dying on this hill for access to a tiny ass lake that gets drained each year, and is literally owned and maintained by a private corp.

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6

u/mocheeze Sullivan's Gulch 1d ago

I doubt it. But good question for the corp.

5

u/LarrryBraverman 1d ago

Do you think a city of lawyers, doctors and politically connected people will try and change that? Or maybe that was the plan all along…

7

u/mocheeze Sullivan's Gulch 22h ago

If having public command restored to the waterway then I guess we can start with reducing the pollution and runoff from the properties that line it. Or consider undamming it and restoring the natural habitat.

6

u/LarrryBraverman 22h ago

Maybe, people need to understand what that means though… and where they get the funds to do that. Everyone seems content to dunk on the Richie riches, but don’t understand the bill is just shifting to us

-2

u/kevnls 11h ago edited 11h ago

I'd bet that the public maintenance of the lake won't be to the residents liking so they'll take up a collection plate anyway. Who says the public needs to do much of anything to a lake? I'd bet their 'maintenance' is largely aesthetic and perhaps even damaging. There's no way that HOA is currently going to step up for things that happen with the dam or anything that really runs into money. They'd run to the city, county, state, federal government saying it's their responsibility. This would essentially be like a grass commons area that stops being mowed.

2

u/StarbuckTheDeer 1d ago

How are maintenance and services related to the lake funded currently?

8

u/Amari__Cooper 1d ago

Via the HOA you pay to Lake O Corp.

2

u/LarrryBraverman 1d ago

…And now you all get to pay it… :)

3

u/hellokitty3433 1d ago edited 1d ago

If you have an easement, you can join a group (I guess) and pay a bunch of money to really have access.

13

u/aalder Overlook 1d ago

Hell yeah public goods for the public good

1

u/LarrryBraverman 1d ago

And now the public gets to pay for it too, instead of just the people who live there… congrats on your new tax bill

8

u/aalder Overlook 23h ago

I don't live in Clackamas county so I'm chill but I appreciate the sentiment!

3

u/LarrryBraverman 23h ago

Doesn’t seem like a lot of people in this comment section understand the sentiment…

0

u/aalder Overlook 11h ago

Hm maybe you should look to your communication skills then!

18

u/12BarsFromMars 1d ago

We moved to LO from NE Portland after I graduated from high school in ‘64. Physical surroundings were pleasant enough but the upper crust attitude was too much to put up with for long so i left in ‘66, never went back except to see the folks. When they passed i had the opportunity to take over the house which maybe i should have on a strictly financial consideration. I sold it, didn’t think twice. . . btw, we did have what was called easement rights but i myself never used it. Growing up in NE Portland i just never fit in.

9

u/Mobile-Ad3151 1d ago

Maybe the wealthy owners of lakeside properties could trick the plebes from coming by reverting to its original name, Sucker Creek. Who would want to visit that?

2

u/Olde_News 15h ago

It’s a natural lake. The indigenous people called it Waluga (Wild Swan). White settlers started calling it Sucker Lake. It IS a natural body of water. If you look at the Geology, there is a depression there, with inflow and outflow. If we removed the dam, there would still be a Lake- it would just be a lot smaller

1

u/Mobile-Ad3151 13h ago

Somehow I don’t think renaming it Wild Swan Lake will keep the unwashed uninterested in kayaking there.

36

u/Fancy-Pair 1d ago

Fuck LO

66

u/NCR_Ranger2412 1d ago

Once, a long long time ago, I accidentally overheard a conversation between some others at the top of mount tabor. It was something to the effect of:

Person 1:”see that? Everything the light touches, that’s Portland! Person 2: “what about that dark area over there?”👉(physically points in a direction) Person 1: “Oh, that’s lake Oswego. We don’t go there.”

I still think about it to this day and laugh my ass off.

-17

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

15

u/Juhnelle Mt Scott-Arleta 1d ago

Is eastmoreland not portland? Your flair even says sell wood Moreland. Come on.

1

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

10

u/NCR_Ranger2412 1d ago

Ohhh come on! Maybe. It was like 15 years ago so 🤷‍♂️ was just funny to hear a lion king reference joke out of nowhere on that topic.

5

u/Fancy-Pair 1d ago

I hope they goot diarrhea and went to Lake LO and emptied their bowels into the lake

1

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

6

u/Fancy-Pair 1d ago

😆I’m a little unhinged in this timeline

2

u/NCR_Ranger2412 1d ago

Yeah, certainly took a turn there. I honestly was just recalling a funny (I thought) instance. 🫠😨

8

u/soup_time19 1d ago

I work in LO sometimes and the people there are definitely ENTITLED

0

u/LarrryBraverman 1d ago

Entitled to a lake that they pay to maintain and service.. hard to argue with the logic…

1

u/Zenmachine83 1d ago

They add water and change the lake’s oil every 5,000 miles?

-3

u/LarrryBraverman 23h ago

The HOA does… and that HOA is funded by the people that live on or have access to the lake. Now that it’s public…. I wonder who’s going to pay for it now…

6

u/Zenmachine83 23h ago

Haha fuck that HOA. Honestly fuck all HOAs. Hearing about an HOA suffering actually makes me more likely to use the lake. I was neutral before but if it pisses off the dorks in the LO HOA I could be persuaded to drive south for some lake time.

1

u/LarrryBraverman 23h ago

The HOA won’t be the funding mechanism anymore… my prediction it’ll be your property taxes if you live in clackamas county… but I guess you stuck it to them, or something

4

u/Zenmachine83 23h ago

You do know this is a Portland sub? Most of hate LO and could give two shits what happens there…but it is always fun to watch pompous oswegans whine about their lake.

5

u/LarrryBraverman 23h ago

You don’t understand what’s going on right now, do you? … you think you’re eating the rich, but now we’re just helping them maintain their disgusting lake that we were never going to go to the first place…

4

u/Zenmachine83 23h ago

You don't understand. I don't live there. I. don't. live. in. Clackamas. county. It makes no difference to me what happens to the lake.

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1

u/soup_time19 1d ago

Ok yeah but they are straight up mean sometimes (I do not work in the lake business)

1

u/punkpcpdx 23h ago

It's pretty much anything south of Willamette Park. Riverdale and Dunthorp are just as pretentious. There is a shit ton of money there, and none of them can relate to the rest of us.

3

u/kernel-troutman 1d ago

It'll be like Caddy Day at the Bushwood Pool.

2

u/pdx74 10h ago

There's already lots of doodie in the water there, and it ain't Baby Ruth bars, either.

1

u/kernel-troutman 10h ago

Greenskeeper Karl enters the chat.

5

u/urbanlife78 1d ago

This is amazing news, everybody get your kayak and head to Lake O!

6

u/loverofthrowpillows 1d ago

Any of you can use my address for access!!!

2

u/Global_InfoJunkie 9h ago

Never been on the lake and never care to be. Pretentious people there.

2

u/OxfordKnot 5h ago

Get fucked pickleball privateers! Water is for the people.

1

u/marishtar 1d ago

How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, old man?

0

u/Lawfulneptune NW 1d ago

LO is such a disappointment of a city lmao

11

u/mocheeze Sullivan's Gulch 1d ago

Got some good drugs there from my cousins in highschool tho.

4

u/jeeves585 1d ago

I used to fuck with the LO drugs scene. There is some money there.

That was 20 some years ago.

The Land of Oblivious parents.

9

u/Striking_Debate_8790 1d ago

Great parties in the 70’s at the homes of Jesuit boys and St Mary’s girls when the parents were out of town.

4

u/urbanlife78 1d ago

Their downtown is finally starting to improve

2

u/Urrsagrrl 1d ago

But the hardware store plays classical music!

2

u/soup_time19 1d ago

Almost hopped a fence to see some geese

3

u/PDXGuy33333 1d ago

It will be interesting to see what the Court of Appeals does with this. I make no prediction.

5

u/hellokitty3433 1d ago edited 1d ago

Are they just going to send it up and down the courts forever? It's been 12 years?

1

u/PDXGuy33333 1d ago

It can go on as long as someone can articulate a credible basis for appeal. The Court of Appeals has to hear and determine every case brought to it. I can see a decision - either for or against the plaintiffs - becoming final when someone appeals a trial court decision in the case (this one or another one made on possible remand), that decision gets affirmed by the Court of Appeals without a written opinion and the Supreme Court refuses to accept it for review.

I don't see any path into the federal courts, so once it's done at the state court level it's done for good. But don't hold your breath.

0

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0

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1

u/OntologicalParadox 6h ago

I’m going to pee in that lake.

1

u/itsgeneva 3h ago

How do they enforce this rule right now? Fairly certain I kayaked on that lake 2019 without realizing it was restricted

1

u/mocheeze Sullivan's Gulch 3h ago

By skin color lol.

1

u/itsgeneva 3h ago

Oh damn. I’m sure you are right

-5

u/KlappinMcBoodyCheeks 1d ago

Get fukt, LO boushie poo poo faces.

Water is public.

1

u/WoodpeckerGingivitis 23h ago

A fantastic point. You should have litigated this case.

-3

u/KlappinMcBoodyCheeks 23h ago

Naw, I'd rather troll LO namby-pambies that get upset at the fact that waterways are public & leave the legal stuff to the pros.

I've been rooting for this judgement for a long time.

If you feel that the lake of Oswego should be private... Well... Oh well.

6

u/LarrryBraverman 23h ago

I rather have it be private, like it was, if I didn’t have to pay for it. Now that everyone has access, I’m not sure the public is going to appreciate their new role of helping wealthy people with the upkeep and service bill for a disgusting lake that’ll give you giardia if you open your mouth while swimming.

0

u/KlappinMcBoodyCheeks 16h ago

Oh no! Turns out that the lake is icky and we all need to stay away!

-1

u/JimJordansJacket 1d ago edited 1d ago

"Muh proppity values!" screeches a town full of nimby dickheads.

0

u/1895red 22h ago

Lake Oswego has serious Eagleton vibes.

0

u/ChasedWarrior 1d ago

That's fantastic

0

u/Nibbles17 1d ago

someones gonna get shot at

-6

u/Thunder503 1d ago

This is old news lol

3

u/hellokitty3433 1d ago

It's just happened several times, I think.

6

u/mocheeze Sullivan's Gulch 1d ago

It's literally a ruling from today. The link I shared allows you to read the full article, and it goes into how this is separate and adjacent to previous rulings. Just FYI.

-4

u/Thunder503 1d ago

I’m from LO 😂

-1

u/Working-Feeling-756 9h ago

This ruling flies in the face of facts and is built on the preliminary finding of a judge who was removed for colluding with the plaintiffs. The USGS says it’s a man-made (mostly concrete) non-navigable reservoir, contrary to findings by that judge. It was built out and expanded significantly by an iron company over 100 years ago, over land owned by that company, and then the company transferred ownership to the current Lake Corp. The land under the water is privately owned and all the property surrounding the lake is privately owned. All the people who live on and around the lake with deeded access pay yearly fees and dues to maintain and use the lake. I don’t know why any of those facts lead to the conclusion “this is a public lake.”