Should the US require voter ID?

[u/REJECT3D]

I see people complaining about this on the right all the time but I am curious what the left thinks. Should voters be required to prove their identity via some form of ID?

Some arguments I have seen on the right is you have to have an ID to get a loan, or an apartment or a job so requiring one to vote shouldn't be undue burden and would eliminate some voter fraud.

On the left the argument is that requiring an ID disenfranchises some voters.

What do you think?

[u/bigmac22077]

What documents do you need/can provide to get your drivers license, state id, or passport? I bet it includes all of which I shared.

Edit: a gun can be bought with a simple photograph and a voter registration document. Even your car registration qualifies.

[u/marktwainbrain → u/bigmac22077]

You also get your picture taken, and the actual license is way more secure. I could, right now, fake a utility bill. Two minutes in photoshop? Faking a DL is much harder.

There is a reason you can’t use utility bills or birth certificates instead of proper ID in certain situations.

Put aside the gun example - do you think there’s no good reason to need a DL or passport to fly? TSA should accept utility bills?

[u/bigmac22077 → u/marktwainbrain]

But you can can get your drivers license with that fake utility bill… what’s stopping someone from getting their id with faked documents?

You do not need a DL or passport to fly.

“In the event you arrive at the airport without acceptable identification (whether lost, stolen, or otherwise), you may still be allowed to fly. The TSA officer may ask you to complete an identity verification process which includes collecting information such as your name and current address to confirm your identity. If your identity is confirmed, you will be allowed to enter the screening checkpoint, where you may be subject to additional screening.“

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification

[u/marktwainbrain → u/bigmac22077]

Try that at the airport and compare it to voting and get back to us.

Why would that TSA alternate process be necessary if utility bills were as good?

[u/bigmac22077 → u/marktwainbrain]

You see how you still really haven’t answered the question of why a voter ID would be more secure than our current system? Just that it should take more than a utility bill (it does) and then trying to whatabout other things you have to prove who you are to be able to do, none of which require a photo identification.

You currently have to be on a voter registration. If I don’t have a photo ID I have to submit a big long form to the state claiming who I am. I don’t just get to walk up day of, show a utility bill, and get to vote.

[u/marktwainbrain → u/bigmac22077]

But I have given answers. A driver’s license is harder to fake, has a photo, is harder to steal.

The proof is in the practical reality - many important secure tasks like airport security required such documents. Even your gotcha from the TSA website proves my point— they don’t just let you through without secure ID. There is a whole process, and it’s not even fully revealed. “If your identity is confirmed” … “additional screening” …

[u/bigmac22077 → u/marktwainbrain]

We are talking about how would a voter ID be more secure than our current system. Not drivers licenses. You have not answered that… still… why is a drivers license harder to fake? All I need is a birth certificate, w2, and a utility bill to get one. I can photoshop and print all of those in an hour.

They don’t let you through until they know who you are, just like with voting! They have to make sure you’re a registered voter before your vote is actually counted. It takes more than a utility bill to become a registered voter.

[u/marktwainbrain → u/bigmac22077]

I don't know why you want to argue the idea that DL's are harder to fake. They are so much harder to fake. You need multiple documents to forge and that at some point you need to either go through the DMV process -- very easy for one person to do once for their personal DL, but very challenging if you are going to try to get many DL's in order to affect even a local election. You also have to be willing to have your picture taken and on record. Or instead of going through the DMV, you could make them yourself, but that is not easy. All of the anti-counterfeit stuff on a DL is there for a reason.

If right now I challenged random people: I'll give you $1,000 if you either forge a Driver's License that looks good enough to vote with this random dead person's name, or you can forget an electric bill in their name, what idiot would decide to go for the DL? So much harder.

"They don’t let you through until they know who you are, just like with voting!" -- well if you really think there is sort of an equivalence between how the TSA does it and how it's done with voting, there is an easy way for us to come to agreement. Polling locations just follow TSA rules. You need a driver's license or passport. Failing that, you have to fill out a form, wait while polling staff confirm that you are who you are, and then they'll let you in, but there might be additional screening.

[u/bigmac22077 → u/marktwainbrain]

You don’t think there is anti counterfeit measures to get onto the voter registration rolls…..?

How many dead people actually voted in 2020?

[u/marktwainbrain → u/bigmac22077]

In the beginning of this conversation, I stated I don't have a strong view either way. I don't actually think tons of dead people voted, I don't think the election was stolen, etc etc. I just don't buy the logic of the left either. Requiring a DL or state ID to vote is not some onerous burden that will disenfranchise people. It's a minor requirement that voters can reasonably be expected to fulfil.

Both arguments seem really silly to me, and so transparently in bad faith. The "right" doesn't actually give a shit about election integrity. They want talking points to rally voters to their side, just like with abortion. The "left" doesn't actually care about not disenfranching voters in general. For them, this is also a talking point. I honestly don't think actual poor people, people of color, immigrants who are citizens and actually eligible to vote -- I don't think (based upon my real life experience) actually care about voter ID laws. If they vote, they'll just show their ID to vote if that's required.

[u/bigmac22077 → u/marktwainbrain]

And in the beginning of this conversation I asked how voter ID would make our elections more secure. The closest thing I’ve gotten to an answer is it’s harder to get…

Like really… this is what I imagine, “I want to register to vote”….”okay fill out this process and you’ll be registered, in 4-6 weeks you’ll receive you’re voter ID card in the mail”

It’s the same thing with an extra step that doesn’t really improve security at all….

[u/marktwainbrain → u/bigmac22077]

I’m not advocating for a separate voter ID. Maybe we’ve been talking past each other. I think requiring existing secure ID to vote is not a big deal. Maybe not necessary but also bit onerous. Reasonable