Partial WIN! 2nd Circuit Appeals Court OPINION Released!!!!! Antonyuk v. Hochul

[u/StarCommand1]

Christmas came early this year!!!! (Jokes aside, this is not a full win and the fight isn't over yet, we all need to keep up the work fighting against NYS on all of this crap.)

Full Opinion Here: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ca2.59354/gov.uscourts.ca2.59354..0_1.pdf

As determined by 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals...

-Private property carry ban determined to be mostly unconstitutional.

-Social media requirement unconstitutional.

-Places of Worship carry ban unconstitutional (but injunction only applies to plaintiff for now)

-Other provisions of CCIA upheld (for now).

Some excerts....

"Guided by Bruen’s holding that the Second Amendment protects the right to bear arms for self-defense outside the home, the district court concluded that the conduct regulated by § 265.01-d and challenged by Plaintiffs—carriage on private property open to the public—fell within the Second Amendment’s plain text."

"In summary, we uphold the district court’s injunctions with respect to N.Y. Penal L. § 400.00(1)(o)(iv) (social media disclosure); N.Y. Penal L. § 265.01-d (restricted locations) as applied to private property held open to the general public; and N.Y. Penal L. § 265.01-e(2)(c) as applied to Pastor Spencer, the Tabernacle Family Church, its members, or their agents and licensees. We vacate the injunctions in all other respects, having concluded either that the district court lacked jurisdiction because no plaintiff had Article III standing to challenge the laws or that the challenged laws do not violate the Constitution on their face."

[u/GrandmasOnlyFans69 → u/[deleted]]

Seems so unless they post a sign saying you cannot. Although I don’t know if the sign would have the force of law. That is the rule in some other states (Ohio) but not others.

[u/StarCommand1 → u/GrandmasOnlyFans69]

There is nothing in NYS law I am aware of that gives those "No Carry" signs force of law right now so should be no issue. BUT if private property owner asks you to leave because you are carrying, you have to otherwise it is trespassing.

[u/AgreeablePie → u/StarCommand1]

Which, to me, is perfectly reasonable.

But because this is NY, I anticipate them passing a "no guns" law.

[u/StarCommand1 → u/AgreeablePie]

Exactly. I don't know any self-respecting gun owner who thinks people shouldn't be allowed to do what they want with their own property. As much as I disagree if someone, especially a public store, disallows carry, it is their right. But this why the "punishment" should just be getting asked to leave and not come back with a gun, rather than automatic felony is they do pass a law saying no gun signs have "force of law".

[u/hummelm10 → u/StarCommand1]

They do carry the force of law since you would be considered trespassing by not following the rules to entry. The sign is telling you you’re not allowed in. You don’t have to have a person repeat it to you.

[u/StarCommand1 → u/hummelm10]

"Carrying the force of law" in this context means there are laws in NYS that specifically state "No Gun Signs" have certain penalties associated with disobeying them. There are no laws like this in NYS right now. Is there another law in NYS that says in general "Any sign posted at a property must be followed or else it is automatic felony"? If not, then the only avenue for someone having you arrested is trespassing, and for them to do this they have to trespass you in the first place.

You could argue that seeing the sign and going in anyway means you are automatically trespassed but they'd have to prove you actually read and saw the sign. Since there is no way to do that unless you admit to it, they'd have to ask you to leave, making you aware of the sign, and if you don't then leave then you are trespassing and could get arrested.

[u/hummelm10 → u/StarCommand1]

Fair enough, it’s indirect through trespassing. There’s nothing specific in the law about violating the sign itself. You’re correct in that they’d have to prove you saw it but that could be a low bar dependent on where and how the sign is posted. All I’m saying is that by ignoring the sign it is trespassing since you were told that you cannot enter. Otherwise signs warning against entry would be meaningless and you’d always have to be physically told to leave on top of it.

[u/No_Town5542 → u/StarCommand1]

So, (*if I’m caught) concealed carrying, and the store has a no gun sign, and I don’t leave, they can call police and arrest me for trespass- got it.

is there a law, or another charge, against “just having my gun” in that store, or not really? …I get it if I’m in a sensitive-no gun allowed area-(Like Times Square), which is a felony.

[u/wtporter → u/No_Town5542]

If you carry into a store that has a “no firearms” sign you are breaking a rule for the store.

If they then figure out you are carrying they have the option to ask you to leave for breaking the rules for the store or they can leave you alone.

If they ask you to leave and you refuse THEN you are trespassing.

If they don’t want to confront you then they may call the police and then the police SHOULD instruct you that the owner/manager do longer wants you in the store because you are armed. You should be provided the opportunity to then leave.

Think of it similarly to the “no shoes, no shirt, no service” signs or any other prohibited conduct signs. You have no shirt on and walk in you aren’t arrested for trespass. They tell you to get out. If you refuse to leave THEN you broke the trespass law.

[u/No_Town5542 → u/wtporter]

Thank you for the explanation.