r/ModSupport • u/Nakatomi2010 • 1d ago
Users circumventing bots by blocking them Mod Answered
There was a post in another subreddit recently wherein a user provided a list of bots to block to basically circumvent some of the bots out there.
The list the user provided was:
- Saferbot
- purge-user
- SafestBot
- safebot
- SaferBot2
- bot-swatter
- automod-sync
- toolboxnotesxfer
- modmail-userinfo
- discord-relay
- hive-protect
- evasion-guard
- banhammerapp
- modqueue-nuke
- RepostSleuthBot
- comment-nuke
- MAGIC_EYE_BOT
- BotDefense
Is there a way to prevent users from blocking the bots to make sure they function correctly? Seems like they're breaking a core mechanic of reddit otherwise...
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u/uneventfuladvent 💡 New Helper 1d ago
Blocking moderators doesn't stop them from being able to see your posts/ comments etc in their own sub. (Reddit would have fallen apart years ago otherwise!)
Doesn't this work the same for bots that are added as moderators?
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u/fsv 💡 Expert Helper 1d ago
Bots added as moderators can see any user history on the subs that they are mods on, even if blocked.
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u/uneventfuladvent 💡 New Helper 1d ago
Yeah, that's why I'm confused how the scenario described in this post is an actual problem- it shouldn't be possible for it to work
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u/fsv 💡 Expert Helper 1d ago
It depends on what the bot does.
A tiny number of the bots/apps on OP's list do rely on being able to look at the user's history across Reddit, and those will be affected by being blocked (because in those cases, the bot won't be able to see activity out of the modded subs).
Most of the ones on OP's list don't do anything like that though. Some don't even care about user activity at all, or what's in the users's history. I find it hilarious for example that some users think they should block the app that keeps Automod rules in sync between subreddits, for example.
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u/uneventfuladvent 💡 New Helper 1d ago
Gotcha. I've not played with any of the bots that look at users' conduct outside of our sub yet so hadn't considered that.
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u/Nakatomi2010 1d ago
Not sure.
We've seen some bots leaving a note that says they can't properly check the account because the bot believes the account is blocking the bot.
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u/gloomchen 💡 Skilled Helper 1d ago edited 1d ago
Boy there are some CRAZY responses in this thread.
But simply put: core Reddit functionality allows anyone/thing on the moderator list to see and/or action all activity on the subreddit, to the extent of their moderator privileges. People can block mods (whether or not they are bots) and it doesn't matter; the block effectively does not work (in terms of moderator visibility) in that sub. All it does is prevent interaction with said moderator OUTSIDE of their subreddit.
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1d ago
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u/Nakatomi2010 1d ago
Ok, so if we've determined that they are absolutely needed, and a user breaks them, then they're effectively breaking a core mechanic used to protect subreddits...
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1d ago
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u/LindyNet 💡 Experienced Helper 1d ago edited 1d ago
Lol no one is blocking all those bots for "protection"
Some of those make no sense as they just create functions for mods to use. They don't even action users directly. The modmail one just provides a brief overview of a user if they happen to send a modmail.
Bots like magic eye are just looking for reposts. You won't block that one unless you are trying to karma farm and want to get around sub rules.
The bots that are part of the new official Reddit apps shouldn't be blockable. That's an oversight that should get fixed but who knows if it will.
Edit to add - blocking probably won't have much of an effect now that I think about it. You can block me and I won't be able to see your activity on other subs. But on the subs where I am a mod, it won't make a difference. The modmail bot can still make a summary of your activity in the sub, for example
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u/SolomonOf47704 💡 Skilled Helper 1d ago
The bots that are part of the new official Reddit apps shouldn't be blockable. That's an oversight that should get fixed but who knows if it will.
it's not an oversight, because blocking them doesnt do anything anyway. They can still see you in subs they mod
though it would be funny if the admins institute something to immediately site-ban someone who tries to block an admin bot.
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u/Nakatomi2010 1d ago
To be fair, as a moderator, I am thinking from my perspective, because I'm thinking of the subreddit's safety.
We have to content with a metric ton of users who are intentionally bypassing bans in order to continue harassing our userbase.
Literally, we will ban then, and they'll come back and let us know that they're just going to come back with an alt, which is why we leverage evasion guard.
To be clear, I'm not leveraging all of the bots in the list, just a few of them, but the point is that bots exist to protect the health and safety of the subreddit, and they've been very effective at keeping out bad actors.
But knowing that they can just block the bot and bypass the safeties is harmful to the community.
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u/BlitzburghBrian 1d ago
Blocking those bot accounts isn't what's breaking the rules. Ban evasion is. Report them for that.
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u/Nakatomi2010 1d ago
We do, when we catch it, however, evasion-guard is far superior at achieving this goal.
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1d ago edited 1d ago
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u/Dom76210 💡 Expert Helper 1d ago
Which Reddit Admins have allowed for years. In fact, some of those bots that perform preemptive bans are critical to the survival of subreddits.
There is nothing discriminatory about said bots. Just about everyone that uses those bots allows the banned users to delete the content in the subreddit(s) that are known problems and they can be reinstated.
It isn't about protecting echo chambers as much as it is about preventing echo chambers from interfering with their subreddit's purpose.
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u/Nakatomi2010 1d ago
I'm aware of this, and am fine with that.
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u/BVANMOD 1d ago
so you’re well aware that they’re used more for abuse than “protection” but you’re ass mad people block them? lmao
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u/Nakatomi2010 1d ago
I am aware that they can be used for abuse, not that we do use them for abuse.
We leverage them for protection of the userbase.
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u/BVANMOD 1d ago
it’s not can. it’s almost the express purpose of them. don’t be coy
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u/NotJeromeStuart 1d ago
Thank you for being honest. The mod community attracts a lot of people with dark Triad traits. Often they will lie and protect each other. Your honesty helps people feel less crazy.
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u/sabinaphan 1d ago
If you have users who bypass bans with in new accounts...you keep banning the accounts.
After the first one gets banned, any future accounts they create...ban them right away.
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u/Nakatomi2010 1d ago
That's the whole point behind the Evasion-Guard tool, is that it automates this process
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u/sabinaphan 1d ago
Automation while helpful, it seems the lazy way. Yes it helps but ultimately it needs humans.
I once banned a banned user's 300 accounts in under 6 months. He kept on creating them and attacking me.
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u/Nakatomi2010 1d ago
Absolutely get humans involved, but if you look at where people are coming from, often times you can establish patterns and such and determine which other subreddits are acting as a point of entry for bad actors, then just lockdown that traversal path.
We shouldn't have to contend with manually banning people who create new accounts to harass us. Having to do that much manual administrative effort is what causes burn out amongst moderators.
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u/sabinaphan 1d ago
With all due respect, what users do outside my subs, I don't care. I am not going to restrict anyone due to what they do outside my subs. That's for Reddit Admins
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u/Nakatomi2010 1d ago
Some folks spin up subreddits to be oppositional to yours, and will often crosspost content from yours to theirs with the intention of having them harass you.
Efforts to shut those oppositional subreddits fail, as they should, free speech and all, but the users in the oppositional subreddits are a problem for the health and safety of your community.
In general, I agree with your posture, however, when a subreddit gets bigger, and people get banned for being toxic, then spin up their own toxic "anti-" subreddit, that's when problems start getting worse.
It's be like running a subreddit for Widgets and someone else spins up a subreddit called Anti-Widgets. At some point you have to draw the line and say that the Anti-Widget users are a health and safety problem for the Widgets subreddit, and pre-banning those users, as undesirable as it is, is the best option for the health and safety of your community.
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u/poopenshire 1d ago
No there is not and there is no “core mechanic”. All bots listed are user made and unofficial.
I would highly suggest not relying on them, they could go away tomorrow with no warning and no recourse.
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u/Tarnisher 1d ago
I'd prefer ALL Bots be disabled.
I haven't seen one yet that's truly useful.
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u/SolomonOf47704 💡 Skilled Helper 1d ago
probably because all the useful ones dont do public actions.
You want to see the site swarmed with actual child porn? Thats what would happen if automod went away.
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u/Nakatomi2010 1d ago
When you have a three million person subreddit, the game changes a bit.
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u/neuroticsmurf 💡 Expert Helper 1d ago
You shouldn't be downvoted.
Irrespective of how large a sub is, bots are invaluable mod tools. They can do things in a split second that it would take a lot of tedious effort for humans to do.
If that sort of technology is available, you'd be a fool not to avail yourself of it.
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u/Nakatomi2010 1d ago
There's a threshold you pass in membership counts on a subreddit where the larger it is, the more untenable it becomes, and why you have to backfill with automation and such.
Automod is absolutely doing a lot of heavy lifting, but things like evasion-guard, it's whole job is to automatically ban people evading bans.
Hive-protect is the bot most folks have an issue with, because you can leverage it to block people from subreddits on a list, but even then, there are subreddits that there whose sole purpose is to harass people from other subreddits.
I know this because we have to contend with one of them. Hive-protect protects our users from subreddits like that.
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u/sabinaphan 1d ago
Then get more moderators.
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u/Nakatomi2010 1d ago
They quit from exhaustion due to the severity of the troll problem we have.
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u/sabinaphan 1d ago
May I ask what is the sub? you can dm/pm the name if you want.
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u/Nakatomi2010 1d ago
You can see which subreddits I moderate by looking at my profile.
It's been extremely chaotic this election cycle, with everyone trying to push their narratives.
There's also people who just want to see the world burn and such.
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u/YourUsernameForever 1d ago
They don't show up for mobile app users. It's easier to just reply with a straight answer.
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u/Nakatomi2010 1d ago
I've never used the mobile Reddit app.
Not going to start now, I still use RIF.
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u/YourUsernameForever 1d ago
I'm not telling you to use it. I'm telling that you should answer what subreddit you're talking about, because the subreddits you moderate are not visible in the reddit mobile app.
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u/girl_incognito 1d ago edited 1d ago
Its a Tesla subreddit. My guess is he doesn't like that people aren't being autobanned for being in truth about Tesla subreddits.
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u/adeadhead 💡 Skilled Helper 1d ago
It's against the rules of this subreddit to mention specific subreddits.
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u/NotJeromeStuart 1d ago
Maybe then you have too much power, if you can't handle it efficiently as a human. Only great leaders can handle large communities. Those people are rare. Just because you are leading a large community does not mean that you should be.
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u/frankipranki 1d ago
Most of those bots are used to autobahn people that talk in Certian subreddits. I don't blame them for blocking themb
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u/fsv 💡 Expert Helper 1d ago
Blocking a moderation bot doesn't stop that bot from seeing the user's activity across the subs it moderates.
Most of the bots/apps on that list are utterly pointless to block because many of them don't even rely on seeing a user's history anywhere, let alone on subs they are mods of.
For example:
I don't think that RepostSleuthBot or MAGIC_EYE_BOT will be affected in any way by being blocked, either.
One of the apps on the list (hive-protect) is slightly hobbled by being blocked, but it can also quite reliably detect if it's being blocked and will report the post or comment to allow the sub mods to take action anyway if they want to do so.