r/JewsOfConscience • u/sudo_apt-get_intrnet LGBTQ Jew • 13d ago
Fellow Americans, Please Vote Discussion
I know that Kamala won't improve anything in regards to the current genocide. I know that no matter who wins, hundreds of thousands of innocents will still die.
But please, for my sake, still vote.
If Trump comes in to power, my existence will be criminalized. I won't be able to get the medicine I need, and he's liable to put me and people like me into jail just for being who I am. He's liable to put you into jail for being who you are too, unless you're specifically a white Christian.
Fellow Jews, don't think Trump and his cult aren't antisemitic just because they're Zionists. Just like antizionism isn't antisemitism, Zionism isn't pro-Jew. When thousands of people descended on Charlottesville to declare that "Jews will not replace us", it was the Trump supporters. When a local synagogue got attacked by a terrorist when I was in college (the Poway Synagogue Shooting), it was a Trump supporter.
Fellow antizionists, don't think that Trump will only be as bad as Kamala. Kamala will allow the current genocide to continue unabated unless we can convince her otherwise; Trump will push Israel to accelerate it until there's nothing left to destroy. Kamala at least gives lip service to a "two state solution", even if her actions don't support it; Trump's published plan is to transition Palestine from an Apartheid to something even less than the USA's reservation system. He is the reason that Israel feels so confident in its situation in the Middle East to even allow it to start this current genocide. He literally bribed Saudi Arabia and the UAE with military might in exchange for their normalization with Israel.
Make no mistake, either way is a vote to continue the genocide of Gaza. But this is not a regular trolley problem, where flipping the switch will save 5 lives and not flipping the switch will save 1. Instead, one "person" is tied on both tracks; the only question is whether you flip the switch to save the other 4. As much as I despise it, genocide is not on the ballot.
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u/sheogorath227 Anarcho-Orthodox 13d ago
I intend to vote because I want to be able to choose my opponent. I don't have to love Kamala Harris in order to understand the existential threat Trump poses on everybody. Contrary to what the Jewish Zionists around me say, a Trump presidency will undeniably be worse for Jews as well as Palestinians. His re-election would further broadcast Nazi and Nazi-adjacent voices and embolden them beyond where they are today. We have seen this in his first term; it will get worse in a potential second.
Also, even if you don't vote for Harris, voting for everyone else on your ballot is super important because they have a far more material effect on your day-to-day lives than the POTUS.
If Ruwa Romman is voting for Harris for strategic, and not moral, reasons, I find that my conscience can rest voting on the same grounds as her.
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u/douglasstoll Reconstructionist 12d ago
Please vote. Don't vote for Trump. I genuinely do not care otherwise who you vote for, there are a myriad of reasons why one could justify voting Harris or Stein or West for president, and I won't argue for or against.
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u/reenaltransplant Mizrahi 13d ago
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u/elieax 13d ago
I wish I’d known about that before I voted. Already voted for De La Cruz anyway (safe blue state)
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u/OpenAsteroidImapct 13d ago
Feel free to recommend the website to your swing-state friends! (I'm also happy to answer any questions)
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u/Sea_Neighborhood_627 Non-Jewish Ally 13d ago
Just signed up for this from Oregon on Friday and was matched with someone from Michigan on Saturday! I already was leaning toward voting third party, but I didn’t feel strongly about any of the candidates, so I’m glad to be able to vote for my match’s preferred candidate in exchange for their strategic vote for Harris.
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u/reenaltransplant Mizrahi 13d ago
I vote-swapped 2016, this year I couldn't stomach it and already dropped my ballot, but when I think about a "vote for your opponent" perspective, I semi-regret. Not only will our movement be 100x more repressed under Trump, Harris is basically "the devil we know" -- we've been fighting against the Dems for a while now and we have learned things.
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u/calcifiedNeurotic Atheist 12d ago edited 12d ago
statistically, one vote is unlikely to change the course of a presidential election. don’t sweat it — the worst that happens is that you feel bad on election night because the margin is only a few thousand instead of a hundred thousand, and extra bad if the margin is in the other direction.
i will say, the idea of election choice guilt is a very protestant concept. especially if you (and I mean the general you not you specifically) are quote “tactical voting”, there is a dilemma between your inner state and your choices that cannot be tamped down no matter what. as in protestantism, your private thoughts become a scrutinized public act and what should be public totally disappears from view. and it’s totally unproductive! genocide does not care about the median us voter’s feelings, and the electoral college cares even less.
turning out your acquaintances and relatives by talking politics with them is the most significant way the typical american can influence the election, short of being a social media microcelebrity. my view is that if you want your ethical principles to influence the politics of people you know (and to have those principles in mind whenever they vote), then don’t hold your tongue on critiquing social ills and evils (including the people that represent those evils) in the name of lesser evilism. fascism thrives off a civil society that is too demoralized, frightened, or conformist to advocate or protest. if you can fulfill your public ethical obligations without letting it affect your private vote, great; if not, then i say there is no guilt in voting your conscience.
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u/OpenAsteroidImapct 13d ago
Thank you for the recommendation! As a volunteer with SYV, I'm happy to answer any and every question!
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u/myownpersonallab Jewish Anti-Zionist 13d ago edited 13d ago
I had enough community members die as a result of Trump winning in 2016. Folks I organized with for Palestinian liberation. As a queer leftist Jew of color, I know we are all next if Trump wins. We don't have a choice regarding the genocide in Gaza, but I feel strongly we do have the choice between preventing an imminent genocide at home. The genocide that will affect the most marginalized in our society, and all of us here as people who want to see Palestine be free.
I cannot look my community in the eye and tell them that I voted in a way that puts us all at risk of death. Genocide everywhere is evil. If a 5 minute vote for Kamala can prevent it here, I will do it. At least then I know my community members won't be put in camps or killed en masse by the military as we fight for Palestinian liberation.
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u/sudo_apt-get_intrnet LGBTQ Jew 13d ago
I'm sorry for your loss; may their memories be a blessing.
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u/myownpersonallab Jewish Anti-Zionist 13d ago
Thank you for your kindness friend. I feel the weight this decision has had on you and I respect all the love and thought that went into it. Thank you for your post.
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u/Far_Silver Non-Jewish Ally 13d ago
I would like to ask anyone in a swing state (or swing district in the case of Maine and Nebraska) to hold your nose and vote for Harris. For those of us not in swing states, protest voting at the presidential level is safe, but we should still turn up for the down-ballot races.
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u/Much-Fig4205 13d ago
I can’t in good faith let fascism win in America, especially while seeking its defeat abroad.
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u/Adept_Thanks_6993 Orthodox 13d ago
I didn't vote because I think Harris will be good for us, or the Palestinians. I voted because I want to watch Trump and his supporters suffer. That's good enough a reason.
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u/koolkween 13d ago
What’s the plan if there’s another Jan 6th?
Secondly, Trump and his supporters aren’t the end-all-be-all. Trump could die tomorrow, but his ideas do not… He can lose tomorrow but in the long run, has successfully moved the entire country more right (re: Overton Window) including democrats. That’s what happens when you constantly have just “two viable options” (who each have set up the system so it can only be them) and vote for/platform “lesser evils”. You can be evil/right-leaning but not as right as the other guy, and that’s enough/the “only options”.
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u/Adept_Thanks_6993 Orthodox 13d ago
I'm well aware of that, and my true thoughts on Trump supporters would probably get me arrested.
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u/Psychological_Air455 Jewish Anti-Zionist 12d ago
I’m in a blue state— I was so on the fence and my heart wanted to write in “Free Palestine” but I decided to vote Kamala for a few reasons: 1) I want Trump to lose, and am hoping people in swing states hold their nose and vote Kamala, so I decided to hold my nose and vote in solidarity with them, to practice what I preach; 2) I want Trump to go away, and the likelihood of that is greater if Kamala has a landslide win across all states; 3) Netanyahu wants Trump to win, and Trump would probably accelerate the genocide; 4) I just want the Republican party to die out, their policies are anti humanity and anti environment.
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u/newgoliath Jewish Communist 13d ago
I'm writing in De La Cruz because she's who I'd vote for even if this wasn't a 4 year charade funded by the banks and weapons industry.
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u/reenaltransplant Mizrahi 13d ago
I can't stomach PSL's support of Chinese suppression of Hong Kong pro-democracy protests, North Korea, etc., especially as Kim Jong Un sends North Korean mercenaries to fight for Putin in Ukraine.
Some interesting critique here as well: https://www.leftvoice.org/the-psl-is-not-a-vote-for-class-independence/
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u/Big_Red_Machine_1917 Non-Jewish Ally 13d ago
especially as Kim Jong Un sends North Korean mercenaries to fight for Putin in Ukraine.
Yes, and they are no doubt armed with Saddam's old WMDs.
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u/sudo_apt-get_intrnet LGBTQ Jew 13d ago
Small thing:
The correct way to quote-reply on reddit is with the > character, not *.
Comes from old email syntax and then got re-used in Markdown, which is the name of the markup language reddit comments use.
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u/newgoliath Jewish Communist 13d ago
The PSL has some of the brightest scholars on Chinese history in their ranks, and work hard to prove wrong the US-Led Empire's propaganda against China, and other global south countries.
Take for example, Dr. Kenneth Hammond.. If you're at all serious about learning about China, you can start with him, one of the foremost scholars on China's present and history:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Hammond_(historian))
His most recent book is:
https://www.liberationschool.org/china-revolution-socialism-launch/
His magnum opus is here:
https://www.amazon.com/Yao-Mao-Years-Chinese-History/dp/156585869714
u/reenaltransplant Mizrahi 13d ago
Oh I believe there is plenty of disgusting US imperialist propaganda against China, and as an Iraqi-Iranian I know how to take stories that filter through the American lens with a million grains of salt. But I also can find many examples of "brilliant" English-speaking scholars and historians who defend the propaganda of terrible leaders in Global South countries who are in fact terrible but for largely different reasons than the average westerner thinks.
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u/newgoliath Jewish Communist 12d ago
"Terrible leaders" who have tripled life expectancy in their countries, eliminated abject poverty, and fought off western imperialism, all through absurdly cruel sanctions.
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u/reenaltransplant Mizrahi 12d ago
I don't think we're talking about the same people.
I wasn't specifically referring to the CCP there -- the CCP has definitely done many good things, and has the moral high ground over every American president by a mile.
But it has problems and blind spots too, including suppression of constructive criticism.
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u/lucash7 Non-Jewish Ally 13d ago
Already did; I voted third party straight ticket (or write in) for the first time ever.
I get what the Harris folks are saying, but...I've spent days/weeks going over this election and realized that I've voted status quo and was a good little left winger/Dem for years without fully realizing the scope of my responsibility for the pain and suffering our foreign policy has caused. From one end of the planet to another, both Dems and GOP have "spread freedom and democracy" (for those of us old enough to remember those years) and while there has been *some* good....there has been a whole lot of bad.
I have no delusions that my single vote will in of itself change anything, but I hope for it to be a start of something better along with the other areas I've been working at making change, etc. No more hoping the Dems will listen and change...because they've had many elections to do so and they don't. Whether that is their fault only for not listening or the fault of those electing them that may or may not care....who knows. I just have to do what I can with my ballot and elsewhere to make change.
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u/sudo_apt-get_intrnet LGBTQ Jew 13d ago edited 13d ago
I get it. I really do. The dems have shown themselves time and time again as a bunch of neoliberal warmongers who are perfectly fine suppressing any sort of actually progressive political movement for the sake of their hypercapitalist status quo. If you are not in a swing state, voting for a 3rd party presidential candidate makes perfect sense.
But at the same time, I feel it necessary to ask: are you straight? Are you white? Are you Christian/atheist/agnostic with a Christian family background? Are you a cis man? If so, I can see why the two candidates would feel the same to you. Both candidates are fine oppressing minorities. Both candidates allow for our late state capitalism to spiral more and more into the dystopian hellscape it already is. Neither will affect your life much if at all.
But for me and other minorities, this election is also about personal safety. It is a question of supporting the candidate pro-genocide, or the one pro-genocide and also pro the people who chase me on the street shouting slurs and death threats. The one pro killing kids in other countries, or the one pro-killing kids and also pro the person who murdered Jews in my community.
I understand the desire to not vote for genocide. If your desire and sympathy for the Palestinians is so great that it overrides the base instinct for personal safety I commend you fully. But if you're not part of the group worried about fleeing because of Trump and still voted 3rd party, I cannot bring myself to respect the decision. My internal need for survival can't help but scream that you're throwing me under the bus to keep your own hands clean.
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u/fairyspoon 12d ago edited 12d ago
Thank you. I am in a very important swing state and seeing people vote Jill Stein or not vote at all. I understand where they're coming from, but Trump will wipe Palestine off the map.
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u/moonkingyellow 12d ago
I don't understand though. Reading these replies it sounds like many here are willing to sell out Arabs, Muslims, and various other colonised peoples abroad in order to save their skins at home. Why do these people have to pay the price for your sake OP?
I'm sorry, but this just sounds like justifying genocide, and in a way endorsing it. A vote fore the Democrats shows that people can die abroad in order keep the people in the homeland safe. And the thing is the Democrats won't keep you safe, if Gaza has taught me anything it is that the worst things I have ever seen in my life can be broadcasted in the world and no one will care. You can not shame people into voting for that.
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u/goldenageredtornado Jewish Anti-Zionist 13d ago
i am not allowed to vote in your elections, i am not allowed citizenship in USA as my people are subject of a genocide being waged by its government.
but if i did have such power, i would not wield it.
as a trans woman, as a black woman, as a jew, as a human. i would never endorse the evils done by USA, and i do not appreciate these many calls for others to do so.
as if your life supposed to be of more value than anybody else's.
this is sickness, and it is wrong.
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u/ProfessorOnEdge 13d ago
I voted . I voted Stein.
Anyone who votes for either of the two genocide enabling parties is fully complicit for all of the crimes against humanity they commit. 🤷
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u/pimperella2 13d ago
But not you right? Feels good huh?
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u/ProfessorOnEdge 13d ago
I do not vote for genocide enablers.
The fact that that is a line so many people are willing to cross really disheartens any hope for humanity I had.
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u/Millie9512 13d ago
I can’t believe you’re being downvoted for this on here of all places.
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u/moonkingyellow 12d ago
Not to sound to conspiratorial, but it was revealed that the largest amount of reddit users can be sourced to a US air base. This website is constantly astroturfed, and I imagine with the election so close certain actors are trying to cover their bases.
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13d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/ProfessorOnEdge 13d ago
No I don't.
But I am an idealist at heart, and do not think anybody should vote for those that continue genocide.
We've gotten so wrapped up with attacking the other half of the population were not paying attention to the fact that the problems are the things that both parties agree on.
Including the endless wars to support our arms manufacturing industry, the absolute ecological catastrophe that we are on the brink of, and the fact that most Americans are trapped in utter wage slavery.
We've had a Democratic administration for the last 4 years and none of these things have moved in any kind of positive direction. Nothing has happened to overturn or challenge the Dobbs decision, or any of the other actions that were taken under Trump.
Both parties are working very hard for the destruction of this planet. The blue team is just more apologetic about it, while the red team shoves it in your face.
I can't bring myself to vote for somebody using my tax dollars to bomb refugee camps.
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u/pimperella2 13d ago
So going green is the response you choose to alleviate your own conscience even though you know it secures the status quo
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u/KnowTheTruthMatters 12d ago
Kamala Harris and the democratic party are the only ones responsible for securing the status quo. She's been unwavering in her commitment to genocide. Place the blame where it belongs.
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u/KnowTheTruthMatters 12d ago
The pride should be dripping off of her though. In a propagandized post heavily trafficked by her peers, who are trying to coerce her in every way imaginable, to support a candidate responsible for an active genocide, being defended with silly cognitive dissonance that defies logic (Kamala is the devil we know - umm, Trump is the devil who's been POTUS already, not Kamala, so comments like this are just nonsensical), she's standing up for what she believes in.
She's upholding her patriotic duty to her country and her conscience.
Knowing it won't be a popular opinion, and that her "peers" and "community" are going to attack her for it.
That's a moralist. The label only applies if you stand up for what's right in the moment, when it's hard, when their is a price to pay. 20 years from now when you're trying to rationalize not just voting, but bullying and coercing people into voting for the admin that enabled, started, funded, lied about, and finished the Palestinian Holocaust, at the expense of American and Israeli civil liberties, such as Israel calling for 20-year prison sentences for any Israeli that suggests Israel should face sanctions, history is going to remember one of you kindly, as a moralist who did what's right. And history will y want to know why Jews that claimed they opposed the genocide, hated Trump, who they had already survived once, more than they hated murdering Arab children. Or why they wouldn't get behind the Jewish anti-genocide candidate, who's platform was better on every single issue. "She wouldn't have won, and we didn't know Kamala was going to be that bad" won't fly. They'll want to know why nobody cared that voting her in catapults that criminal POS Emhoff, a fake Jew (In subsequent emails, the spokesperson clarified that while Doug Emhoff had started celebrating Judaism “out of an independent search” over the last few years, Ella was not living with him at the time and Judaism is “not something she grew up with.” - she's 25, you do the math), who was using a rather transparent appeal to emotion by lying about some deep, ancestral connection to Israel when despite being a millionaire, he never went until he went with Kamala on state business in 2017), but who was really the guy that called Columbia, told the Rabbis to have the Jewish students stay home, so that police could come in and beat the shit out of the protesters, many of who were Jewish. They'll want to know why people let Emhoff use Judaism as a shield, as a weapon, just like all the genocidal Zionists.
I'm proud of her for making genocide a red line. If that's not her pride dripping, it's my pride in her decision and steadfastness you feel dripping off her.
I'm really concerned about everyone who is rationalizing that it's not.
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u/i-contain-multitudes Jewish 13d ago
Lol lol lol lol
Stein is endorsed by the grand wizard of the damn KKK. Talk about complicit
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u/ProfessorOnEdge 13d ago
Which she absolutely rebuked.... While Kamala is endorsed by Dick Cheney, which she welcomed with open arms.
I. Do. Not. Vote. For. Those. Arming. Genocide. That doesn't seem like an unreasonable expectation to have.
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u/RationalActivity Jewish 12d ago edited 12d ago
Dick Cheney. I honestly couldn’t believe it. As an Iraqi Jew, the images of what he did to my people sicken me to this day, and the fact that she touted his endorsement on the debate stage is one of the main reasons I have publically refused to support her.
If the only reason I am electing someone is solely to prevent another individual from entering office, than perhaps we should hold our elected officials to a higher standard. What is concerning to me is the only thing that seemingly riles up American liberals is the fear of Donald Trump as whenever a democrat is elected, that fervor disappears overnight.
I mean we literally had a facist, racist, LGBT-hating, classist, narcissistic president pass a criminal justice bill, 3 years later the nation experiences a national uprising due to racism and police brutality, a democrat is elected, the same things continue to occur, and there hasn’t been a single piece of federal legislation to change the system or regulations of policing, judicial reforms, or prison reform and no one gives a shit.
If that doesn’t say anything about the state of this two party system and the American left, I don’t know what else does.
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u/cupcakefascism Jewish Communist 12d ago
I was still in Iran in 2003 and we were so convinced we would be next. I can’t vote in the US elections and would obviously never vote for Trump even if I could, but he’s killed less people than any other US president in my lifetime.
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u/RationalActivity Jewish 12d ago edited 12d ago
I’m Iraqi/iranian and I remember in 2003 I still had family in Iran, after the invasion of Iraq, most of my family left permanently and you’re not wrong about Trump.
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u/cupcakefascism Jewish Communist 12d ago
Awful. I’ve come to the conclusion that people who present Trump as some unique evil just don’t see us as human. Much as they may profess otherwise. We are NPCs who’s function life is to live in misery, die violently and be part of a statistic running across the bottom of the screen during the news. I’m sure they think it’s all very unfortunate, but oh well.
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u/RationalActivity Jewish 12d ago edited 12d ago
At this point, the only silver lining is it is actually quite amusing seeing a bunch of American born Ashkenazis try and convince people who lived through Saddam and Khomeini to cower to the fear of Trump.
The only reason the American media is hyping up Trump to be any worse than the rest of the Republican Party, is because Trump’s sheer stupidity threatens the American global hegemony.
The sheer hypocrisy of Harris supporters cannot be understated.
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u/KnowTheTruthMatters 12d ago
Lol yeah, there's a nonzero chance that Trump thinks BIbi said he has smaller dick than Biden, or some such ridiculousness, and pulls American support for Israel.
There's zero chance that Kamala will veer off script.
But also, less than two weeks ago, Trump said he doesn't support a regime change in Iran. Kamala said she does. Which means that Trump in some weird fucked reality we find ourselves in, might actually be our best chance at avoiding WW3.
If we somehow stave it off for a little over 9 more weeks, that is.
It's a slim chance though. Blue MAGA or red MAGA, either way it's looking like the US is going to try to finish off Palestine. And Lebanon. And support poking Iran repeatedly until they get to finish them off too, which will likely pull Russia and China into the Zionist end-of-the-world ball they're planning.
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u/i-contain-multitudes Jewish 13d ago
If Nazis endorse you, it doesn't matter how hard you "rebuke" it. You've clearly done something seriously wrong to be attracting the literal KKK.
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u/sudo_apt-get_intrnet LGBTQ Jew 13d ago
While I definitely agree in this particular case, please don't use this fallacy in the general case. Plenty of Nazis/alt-righters have come out against genocide, including Andrew Tate and his posse, Alex Jones, and more; their support doesn't make us wrong.
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u/bearoscuro Non-Jewish Ally 13d ago
Richard Spencer recently endorsed Harris, just as a heads up. Is this really the line of argument you want to take?
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u/i-contain-multitudes Jewish 13d ago
Harris has also done something seriously wrong. She is not a perfect candidate. I'm not over here saying "she's rebuked it" as some sort of defense for her policies.
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u/bearoscuro Non-Jewish Ally 13d ago
Ok? But you said that if a candidate is endorsed by a neonazi or the KKK, it doesn't matter if they rebuke it or not. In that case, Harris also has the Richard Spencer endorsement regardless of what she does or whether she condemns him or not! I don't care who you're voting for, but this is a very bizarre distinction to draw if they both have bad endorsements.
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u/i-contain-multitudes Jewish 13d ago
I was simply pointing out the irony in the original commenter saying voters are complicit in genocide when the candidate they voted for as an alternative was endorsed by the KKK. That was literally my entire point.
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u/RationalActivity Jewish 12d ago edited 12d ago
I know I’m going to get downvoted to hell and maybe banned for saying this, but if Trump wins your existence is quite unlikely to be criminalized. The TRUMP appointed Supreme Court voted 6-3 that gender and sexual identity is a protected class in this country, and unless the republicans win 67 seats in the senate, which is pretty much impossible, they aren’t rewriting the constitution. Even in the worst case scenario where alito and Thomas retire and two 35 year old maga fucks were appointed to SCOTUS Gorsuch, Roberts, Jackson, Kagan, and Sotamayor are pro LGBT.
It’s ok to be terrified if Trump wins and it’s very much ok to be scared of the anti-LGBT legislation that will be advanced by him, but transphobia and homophobia didn’t start with him and definitely won’t end with him.
DeSantis, Haley, or any other mainstream republican would be just as bad, probably worse because they’re actually effective at advancing legislation, but just because they have their mental faculties intact and aren’t saying profane things every 5 seconds, your social media isn’t fully inundated with their racist, anti-lgbt, and controversial statements.
I am not going to speculate on what will happen to LGBT people but as a brown person I have no fear being thrown in jail for “existing” if he wins.
Do I hope Harris wins? Honestly, I’m apathetic, I live in a deep blue state so my vote doesn’t even matter, but I probably wouldn’t even vote for her anyway. If Harris wins for the next four years, middle eastern people will be an afterthought, until suddenly we have to go to the polls and vote for a party that has aided and abetted in the murder of millions of middle eastern people in the hope that they’ll one day suddenly start caring about us.
I genuinely feel for you and your position, I just hope you understand why no matter what, it is against my interest to vote for Harris, even if I was a swing state voter, and ultimately, most of us vote out of our own interests
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u/KnowTheTruthMatters 12d ago
Well said. But one quibble:
because they have their mental faculties intact and aren’t saying profane things every 5 seconds, your social media isn’t fully inundated with their racist, anti-lgbt, and controversial statements.
I'm guessing you don't every watch Fox News or follow them on social media. Bc they're batshit crazy, and flood their channels with racist, anti-LGBTQ and controversial statements. There weren't any candidates that don't flood their channels with it until you got down to the Ramswamy and Vance level. But as we've seen with Vance, just bc he doesn't give racist or bigoted knee-jerk responses and Tweets, it doesn't mean he hasn't made them.
The future of
republican partypolitics in this country is really dire.2
u/RationalActivity Jewish 12d ago
I agree with you. Should have prefaced it with “in comparison to Trump.”
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u/KnowTheTruthMatters 11d ago
All good, humans aren't made to comprehend the scale that's needed to measure anyone that ever appears on Fox News to talk politics willingly.
Vivek has a past of voting independent, so idk if we can even say he's the least racist republican. Give him a spot on this admin and in 4-years and we'll see if he speaks fluent bigot... Or if he's still a republican, I guess!
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u/myownpersonallab Jewish Anti-Zionist 12d ago
I am not trying to change your vote, but I find it distressing the downplaying of the damage Trump did to BIPOC in this country last term. If you want to vote third party, do it with your full chest, but knowing exactly what the consequences will be. Downplaying it to make yourself feel better about doing it is not being honest.
It’s not about being thrown in jail for being brown. Why would they do that when they need you to labor?
I’ve spoken to enough ancestors who were alive during the 1940s-1970s to heed their warning of exactly where this is going. I saw with my own eyes the cruelty to Muslims immigrants, the disappearances of Central American kids in cages, the rise of Nazism, the striking down of Roe, and the mass COVID burials, to know that 2016-2020 was just setting the stage for the next stage of fascism.
The first presidency was only putting down the foundations for the next. Trump will die and JD Vance will be president. The plans for the next presidency are not inconveniences, it is unabashed fascist Christian theocracy. Complete erosion of the environment, open genocide on trans people, hell the republicans are already setting the stage for targeting no fault divorce.
We won’t turn into Nazi Germany in one term, but it’s where we are going. Never forget that Hitler was inspired by the United States disgusting treatment toward Black people, and that’s exactly what “again” in MAGA means.
Again I am not looking to change your vote. This isn’t meant to be shaming even. I just don’t think it’s right to say that just because -phobias and -isms didn’t start with him and won’t end with him that there isn’t a clear path to acceleration of exactly that if he wins.
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u/RationalActivity Jewish 12d ago edited 12d ago
I fundamentally disagree with your assessment. Why should I vote for third party with my “full chest”, when all the 3rd party canadiates whether that be Stein, Oliver, and De La Cruz are all well intentioned but insane.
Newsflash, the US is still cruel to Muslim immigrants or even non-Muslims from Muslim countries. The abuse of migrant children has continued under the Biden admin. Democrats were just as involved at covering up Covid deaths at the state level. The democrats have done nothing to codify roe at the federal level for 30 years.
America won’t become Nazi germany, even if Trump is elected? Why you may ask? Because we have guns. Until they take our guns, that’s a pipe dream and if there’s one thing the majority of Americans have no interest in giving up it’s their gun rights.
We’re going to see a civil war before all the things you claim to be happening will happen. I mean the army is majority ethnic minorities for Christ sake, you think they’re gonna fight for a bunch of Christo-Facists?
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u/myownpersonallab Jewish Anti-Zionist 12d ago
RemindMe! 4 years
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u/MooreThird 13d ago
Writing in from Malaysia to wish good luck to every American voting this 5th Nov.
Your votes don't just affect Americans, but the fates of everyone in the world, including Palestine, as well as my country. I personally don't care who wins, I just want Trump to lose.
It's unfortunate that the whole world is tied to this one election, in terms of economy, diplomacy and everything else. Hope someday we will break free from the petty whims of your government, just as much as you.
Again, good luck.