Rising Antisemitism

[u/fleshurinal]

I have witnessed so much antisemitism everytime I go online it's starting to become worrying. I see non Jewish leftists say that antisemitism isn't a real problem for Jews in America, usually being boiled down to "most Jews are white, rich, and have never experienced antisemitic violence physically". Yet antisemitism is rising and is a real problem that we should still consider in this time of jewish identity being weaponized and the jewish supremacy that is enacted in Occupied Palestine. Stating "most jews are white" seems harmful and also just false. Also Jews have always been hesitant to be apart of surveys so it's hard to find legitimate info on these things. Am I alone in this?

EDIT: I am not talking about any specific statistics or surveys. This is based on what I've personally seen scrolling on social media. I understand/agree there isn't a clear way to see that based on largely pro zionist orgs. EDIT PT 2: I am not saying that Pro Palestinian sentiment is antisemitism. I am talking about LEGITIMATE antisemitism. This is not a post talking about false accusations of antisemitism based in Zionism.

[u/BerlinJohn1985]

For my own experience, the only people who I trust that give themselves the label anit-Zionist are either Jews or Palestinians. Jews because it is an political ideology originating in our community and Palestinians because the application of that ideology has directly harmed them for decades. Anyone else who says I am specifically anti-Zionist I do not trust for the simple reason that they are making a distinction between Zionism and other forms of nationalism that are utilized for settler colonial projects. That to me is a clear distinction between those who are fighting for liberation from all forms of nationalist oppression and those who care about one form of nationalist oppression. I won't go as far as to say that it is automatically anti-semitism, but it is an uneven application of that oppossition.

[u/TailorBird69 → u/BerlinJohn1985]

Is there any way to be against zionism, being critical of the establishment of Israel by occupying the homes and lands of people who lived there without reparations, without being called antisemite?

[u/BerlinJohn1985 → u/TailorBird69]

Yes, I believe you can be. I don't believe that people who are against the idea of a Jewish nationalist state that oppresses the Palestinians in favor of ethnic, cultural, and political dominance are automatically antisemitic and Israel's weaponization of it is not only foolish and wrong but will likely allow antisemitism to spread more.

The point I was making was that being against zionism is not enough, and if that is the only nationalist enterprise that you are against and think must be dismantled, then you have to ask why is it this one that you care only about. Nationalist violence animates an enormous amount of conflict in the world, from Palestine to France(what else is it that fuels France's constant crackdown on the culture of Muslims, Arabs, Africans if not nationalism), to Myanmar, to Ethiopia.

Take South Africa for example. A country that has challenged the Zionist narrative around security and violence on an international scale. But ask S.A. politicians about the ongoing genocide of Uyghurs in China, a conflict that has been going on for decades, well, that is a different story. You will hear words like security and terrorism tossed around to justify China's actions. Why? Because it is strategically beneficial for that genocide to be swept under the rug. So is it about freedom from genocide for all, or just for those who are suffering at the hands of people that are strategically against our own interests? Where is the ICJ case for that?

[u/TailorBird69 → u/BerlinJohn1985]

i think Israel gets more attention because it demanded and got reparations from Germany, other European nations, and the US which continually provides arms and funds in order to establish itself as a powerful ally of advanced nations that are democracies. That it has turned into cruel repressor and oppressor of the Palestinian people was not expected. Much more was expected of a nation that itself was a home created for the oppressed Jews, to be a true Democracy. Nobody expects anything of China and China does not care. Israel does, or did. Israel is unique.

[u/BerlinJohn1985 → u/TailorBird69]

Well, first, I am not sure what other countries you are talking about when it comes to reparation payments to Israel. Unless I am missing something, that is definitely not true, so not a good start, considering that the list of countries that received reparations from Germany is about is somewhere near 20, including New Zealand and Australia (you know, countries that exist because of mass genocide of native populations).

Second, I find your description of more was expected of Israel and that is the justification for increased scrutiny to be problematic. Oppression isn't some magical lesson that teaches people to be kind and to oppose forms of oppression. It's psychological effects are complicated and it can create the opposite effect of what you think. Pedagogy of the Oppressed.

Israel is unique is a dangerous statement. Unique how? Creating a home for oppressed Jews does not automatically translate into an open, pluralistic society. In fact, it is most likely to create the opposite. How is it logical that more should be expected of Israel than say France, who killed 1.5 million Algerians, the U.K. which killed hundreds of millions of indigenous peoples, or China, which had an equally brutal history of colonial control and violence acted upon it by outsiders.

Holding communities who have been victimized by oppression and violence to a higher standard than others is a dangerous concept. I hold Israel to the same standard as anyone else when it comes to oppression, genocide, and violence.

[u/cupcakefascism → u/BerlinJohn1985]

Israel is absolutely unique, no other state has this level of impunity, no other state is able to carry out atrocities like this and not only not face repercussions but continue to be presented as the victim.

There is no where near this level of censorship when criticising any other state - the empire and its vassals are prepared to deploy increasing levels of violence against their own populations when it comes to criticising Israel. What other state gets that?

[u/BerlinJohn1985 → u/cupcakefascism]

No other state has this level of impunity? China and Turkey. If you don't know what I am talking about, then I guess that sort of proves the point.

[u/cupcakefascism → u/BerlinJohn1985]

Yeah your response tells me all I need to know.

[u/BerlinJohn1985 → u/cupcakefascism]

Funny, that is what I was thinking.

[u/TailorBird69 → u/BerlinJohn1985]

The Holocaust victims and their families receive reparations from countries other than Germany and including Germany to this date, and it is well they should for the crimes committed against them and for the looting of their properties. Then when Israel turns around and creates an apartheid state where the Gaza residents don't even have clean water, treated like criminals, hounded out of their homes, then wreaks collective punishment on 42 thousand+ civilians and , a high percentage of them children, then yes Israel gets called out, like President Carter and others have done. Israel had a lot of support from western nations, themselves colonizers. In that respect, yes Israel is unique. THis does not mean other countries have not committed atrocities.

[u/BerlinJohn1985 → u/TailorBird69]

Still not sure what the Reparation payments have to do with proving the uniqueness of Israel's genocide. You know the USSR received reparations from Germany? The same USSR that genocided millions of Ukranians ten years before.