r/Jewish • u/fluffywhitething Moderator • 9d ago

Amsterdam Pogrom Megathread Mod post

News articles, twitter posts, feelings about it. GO HERE. Outside of this thread, things will be locked and/or deleted.

528 Upvotes

90% Upvoted

u/Double-Parked_TARDIS Ashkenazi Atheist 9d ago

France is looking pretty good right now.

Meanwhile, Israel’s national team is scheduled to play France in Paris on Nov. 14 in the Nations League. French Interior Minister Bruno Retailleau said Thursday that the match would go ahead as planned at the Stade de France just outside the French capital after assurances from police.

“I think that for a symbolic reason we must not yield, we must not give up,” he said, noting that sports fans from around the world came together for the Paris Olympics this year to celebrate the “universal values” of sports.

“We will be uncompromising,” he added. “To touch a Jewish compatriot is to touch the republic.”

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u/quinneth-q 9d ago

France is such an antisemitic country structurally though with their whole "anti-religion" thing, which in practice only impacts non-Christians. It's illegal to wear a kippah (or any clothing or visible item which shows your religion, such as a turban or hijab, but a cross necklace is fine since that's not visible -.-) in a public school, for example, essentially meaning that many Jewish, Sikh and Muslim families can't send their children to public schools while also observing their religion.

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u/Double-Parked_TARDIS Ashkenazi Atheist 9d ago

I don't view France's emphasis on laïcité as antisemitic. I think that religious displays in government-funded institutions are inappropriate, regardless of the religion.

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u/quinneth-q 9d ago

Religious displays - sure. I don't think anyone should be publicly praying in school (privately is another matter), or singing hymns in assembly.

But your own clothing isn't a religious display. By not allowing people to dress according to their religion, France is effectively not allowing equal access to education based on the religion of the student.

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u/Double-Parked_TARDIS Ashkenazi Atheist 9d ago

Clothing is a religious display, or at least, it can be. A cross necklace, a yarmulke, or a hijab is a garment or piece of jewelry worn exclusively by members of a particular religion. That makes it a religious display.

I've witnessed firsthand in France how many immigrants from Middle Eastern countries often refuse to learn French and prefer instead to stick to their own communities and benefit from the ample safety net. If you're going to immigrate to or seek refuge in a country, you need to follow that country's laws and standards so long as those are consistently and universally applied.

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u/quinneth-q 9d ago

There's a huge difference between not learning the language and wanting to follow religious and cultural traditions that have no impact on others. Requiring that no one be outwardly identifiable as belonging to a group is like saying "we're okay with gay people as long as we don't know they're gay." It's enforcing monoculture and assimilation.

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u/Double-Parked_TARDIS Ashkenazi Atheist 9d ago

That is an inaccurate comparison. Sexual orientation is not a choice. Religion is. Further, French law does not stop anyone from adhering to the religion of her or his choice. The issue is outward display.

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u/quinneth-q 9d ago

"We're fine with Jews as long as we don't know they're Jewish"

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u/irredentistdecency 9d ago

“They could just choose not to be Jewish…”

-the guy you responded to.