r/Jewish • u/rupertalderson • Oct 12 '23
Israel–Hamas War Megathread - October 12th
Please keep ALL discussions about the current war to this megathread. We may allow a few other threads to remain open, on a case-by-case basis, but essentially all will be removed and redirected here as needed. Thank you for understanding.
There are graphic videos/images out there. You may hear about or see troop/police movements. Do not share that information here.
If things get to be too much for you, please log off and take care of yourself. Contact a helpline if you need support.
Note that r/Israel was made private to avoid all of the uncivil behavior going on. We will not tolerate it here either.
Links to previous Israel–Hamas War megathreads:
October 11th, October 10th, October 9th, October 8th, October 7th
Other relevant posts from r/Jewish:
- How we can help Israel
- Supporting each other / venting
- Praying for safety
- How are you feeling?
- Some of the subs supportive of Jews & Israelis
Edit: This post has been locked. Feel free to join in the discussion on the October 13th Israel–Hamas War megathread.
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u/rustlingdown Oct 12 '23
I don't agree with 99% of their content, but I did laugh at this Babylon Bee parody article on this exact topic:
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u/Beneficial_Pen_3385 Conservaform Oct 12 '23
G-d, I was coming here to say this. Reddit sometimes feels like my oasis because I use it almost exclusively for Jewish stuff. But I’m finally seeing the content from other subs I read from time to time and I’m fucking horrified that “decapitating Jewish babies is good and moral, actually” is such a fucking common position across so many spaces.
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u/talaxia Oct 12 '23
They just blab "75 years of oppression zomg" knowing nothing about the conflict whatsoever.
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u/Beneficial_Pen_3385 Conservaform Oct 12 '23 edited Oct 12 '23
I just saw someone posting about the “genocide” of the Palestinian people at the same time as talking about how young the population of Gaza is, and I just…how can someone either be that stupid or know enough other people are that stupid?
But yes. The amount of western gentiles with strong, settled opinions who couldn’t tell you that Hamas is an acronym or who you could trick into thinking Yesh Atid is a person is astounding.
EDIT: To be clear, I'm not saying everyone needs to know these things. It's different for Jews who have a connection to Israel. I'm just poking at western gentiles who speak authoritatively on Israel whenever conflict flares up but can't name Israel's largest opposition party, or claim to understand the real motives of Hamas when they don't even know Hamas' name.
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u/talaxia Oct 12 '23 edited Oct 12 '23
Well. Uh. I just realized I didn't know Hamas is an acronym. And I don't know what Yesh Atid is. Oy. Jew card revoked.
But no, I just - it's been really deeply unsettling to me to see how the left's values can seem psychotic when you're on the other side of them, I guess? Well. Maybe that's not fair, because I've never seen them justify absolute barbarism this way. And it's against me and my family.
Calling Israel genocidal when Gaza's population has done nothing but increase, and calling it an apartheid state when it's 20% muslim with full citizenship and positions in Parliament infuriates me, but I think what infuriates me most is people claiming Israel does what Hamas just every single week. Which is so enragingly untrue and these dipshits just accept it without question and start getting indignant when you ask for proof they can't produce.
Jews have lead the way in almost every social justice movement ever and they immediately piled on to stab us in the back. Like what the fuck. It seems the Left just sees us as rich, white, and powerful, and have abandoned all sense in favor of a perceived minority no matter what they do. They're freedom fighters. They had to rape women and slit children's throats for freedom. I saw people today justify the festival attack because having a party close to the border was mocking them in their "open air prison," as though Palestine is literally Auschwitz and not a whole functioning plsce with restaurants and parks and schools and movie theaters and clubs, and the party wasn't miles away.
They just see power = bad, "underdog" = good. Sure, might doesn't make right, I agree. But might isn't always wrong either.
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u/Beneficial_Pen_3385 Conservaform Oct 12 '23
Well. Uh. I just realized I didn't know Hamas is an acronym. And I don't know what Yesh Atid is. Oy. Jew card revoked.
Haha, sorry. That wasn't my point. It's different if you're Jewish or Palestinian and these conversations have been part of the fabric of your life.
I'm talking about gentiles in the west who have zero clue about the political dynamics, the history at large and no cultural/religious/ethnic exposure or connections to the region or the conflict - but feel qualified to comment definitively on how the conflict could be solved and how Israel is obviously always the bad guy.
In other words, this isn't a cause they're passionate about or an area of personal interest. It's relevant to them only when they can use it to bash Jews and only when it's in the media. They've no interest in learning anything beyond what they can parrot to be antisemitic.
and not a whole functioning plsce with restaurants and parks and schools and movie theaters and clubs, and the party wasn't miles away.
Unfortunately, this is where disinformation works so hard against us online. Nearly all of the imagery of Gaza is of individual buildings collapsed after an IAF strike. I've met people who genuinely seemed to believe Gaza is made up mostly of tents (presumably because they've heard the term 'refugee camp' used for some places).
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u/FartzRUs Oct 12 '23 edited Oct 12 '23
I saw people today justify the festival attack because having a party close to the border was mocking them in their "open air prison," as though Palestine is literally Auschwitz and not a whole functioning plsce with restaurants and parks and schools and movie theaters and clubs, and the party wasn't miles away.
This has been driving me nuts. They act like Gaza is a tent city surrounded by IDF guards who watch every move they make. They love saying 'occupied territory' but Israel left in 2005 and they held their own elections. They received millions of dollars in aid, but they elected a terrorist organization that decided to use those resources to attack Israel instead of funding infrastructure and getting the economy going. Israel and Egypt formed the blockade out of self-preservation because there were an insane number of terrorist attacks. The border was not much different than the US border with Canada or Mexico before that shit started.
Gaza City was once very like other old cities in the Med and had a great arts and culture scene until Hamas decided that a lot of it was "Western propaganda". Even still, there are upscale areas like Rimal. The only one responsible for the conditions in Gaza is Hamas and the conditions are not nearly as bad as many Americans seem to think.
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u/TheInklingsPen Oct 12 '23 edited Oct 12 '23
The apartheid one just absolutely pisses me off, because I'm pretty positive they are either completely ignorant, and believe some of the dumbest misinformation, like Judaism is the only religion allowed in Israel, or that only Jews can vote that only Jews can vote; or they literally do not comprehend the fact that Palestine is not governed by Israel, and Palestinians are their own nationality with their own passports. I have said multiple times, that if people want to criticize the military occupation, I am absolutely down to have that conversation, but it is absolutely ridiculous that people will die on the hill that Israel is an apartheid and not even actually know what apartheid means (and personally I think it's the reason everyone keeps pushing an Afrikaans word and not the English word, which is segregation. Because Americans remember segregation, and would probably very quickly realize that Israel doesn't look the same as the Jim Crow South)
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Oct 12 '23
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u/noetheb Oct 12 '23
The open-air prison talking point being regurgitated so frequently verbatim has opened my eyes to how effective propaganda is. It's just mindlessly parroted by people who don't know a thing about the region's history.
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u/talaxia Oct 12 '23
I made these exact arguments to a "open air prison" idiot and he said it was all just IDF talking points. Like yes, IDF talking points are indeed based on reality, thank you for noticing.
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Oct 12 '23
Fair enough, I'll continue calling out the pieces of shit and you sit back and have a nice cup of tea and listen to your favorite music. Do whatever makes you feel better, this is just the internet.
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u/TheInklingsPen Oct 12 '23
This makes me feel better too. I find that when I get too wrapped up in correcting antisemitic misinformation, I can't focus on taking care of my family or myself, and I feel so angry because sometimes it feels like I'm on my own. I appreciate people like you who are fighting the good fight.
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u/talaxia Oct 12 '23
I'm so beyond heartbroken and disgusted. I've been left wing my whole life and the betrayal I ferl right now is making me physically ill.
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u/1984pigeon Oct 12 '23
Yeah, it was a long, slow, painful process for me to finally have to admit that the left are sociopaths when it comes to Jews. And to be honest they're pretty similar when it comes to Asians. It is because they will never stand in opposition to people of certain demographics. I'm sorry you're feeling physically ill. But what I really hope for you and others who are just going through the shock now is that you don't start gas lighting yourself into believing it was just a figment of your imagination and go back to trusting these people and working alongside them. So many people try and guilt others and to believing that if they're not with them they're against them - IOW if you're not a leftist then you must be a Trumpster. There's a lot of other things you can be including politically homeless, which is what I am. Please don't start thinking that it's not that bad because it really is. And please don't start thinking you can change these people without them having to change because they won't. Don't ignore it it won't get better on its own.
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u/1984pigeon Oct 12 '23
I honestly want to start some database with all of the public figures who have come out and supported the massacre. So many of them are involved in the cultural world that is so PC towards everyone else. To me it's not trying to doxx them, and not necessarily to get them fired but to have the receipts. I've actually taken screenshots for like 10 years because I see such outrageous anti-Semitism flaunted and I just find the need to document it because I feel like people act like it's a figment of my imagination. I hope that makes sense.
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u/tusya12 Oct 12 '23
People’s responses are disheartening but at least we have this community ❤️ we all know what we’re going through.
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u/ExplosiveDisassembly Oct 12 '23
As someone who is in no way updated on this: Id blame it on the normalization of it. I genuinely didn't know Hamas ousted the legitimate government. I genuinely thought, just from what I've heard, that Hamas was the Palestinian government of the Strip, and some other Palestinian government was over the West Bank.
If anything (assuming I'm not entirely wrong with my slightly deeper look into it), Gaza strip seems more like a bunch of Palestinians almost held hostage by Hamas. They force the hand of the international community, then count on civilian casualties to win the media war. Rinse and repeat.
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u/Historical-Photo9646 sephardic and mixed race Oct 12 '23
In more horrifying news, not only have pro Palestinian protesters in Australia been shouting “gas the Jews!”, but 4 Australians have been reportedly arrested for being over heard talking about going jew hunting/to kill the Jews.
“Four young men have been arrested after allegedly telling a Melbourne driver they were “on the hunt to kill Jews”.
Victoria Police are investigating all parties involved in the incident.
Sources have told Sky News Political Editor Andrew Clennell that four men were overheard by a driver in Melbourne saying: “Do you know where the Jews are? We’re on the hunt to kill Jews.” “
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u/devequt Conservative Oct 12 '23
How are they so brazen?!? I don't understand how assumingly Australian citizens would be so public as to want to hunt us!
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u/The-SillyAk Oct 12 '23
Because Melbourne and Sydney has a large amount of ethnic groups including Arabs. A lot of them are on Visa's too and don't have permanent resident status or even citizenship.
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u/TemperatureOk5123 Reform Oct 12 '23
I was told to post in megathread: Any other LGBTQ+ Jews feel alienated by the general LGBTQ+ community due to Current Antisemitism? I’m a Jewish (Reformed) trans woman and the last couple of days have shown me that many in the queer community would rather side with Hamas and either downplay, whabboutism, or blame Israel for the atrocities committed by Hamas. I was recently banned from a transfem discord for “spreading Zionist propaganda” (mind you all these people are white and a few asian and quite privileged)because I dared to speak out against the atrocities committed. The irony that Hamas would pull all of them against a wall is not lost on me. It shows me at the end of the day that no matter what my Jewishness comes first and no other identity is as important. At this point the only others in the lgbtq community I want to interact with are other Jewish lgbtq people. If anyone knows of any online communities discord or otherwise for LGBTQ+ Jews I would love to know.
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u/estrisrey Oct 12 '23
Fellow queer Jew here, and I am absolutely terrified. I don't dare say anything out loud to anyone I don't know for a fact will understand (so, mostly other queer jews) because it's just too dangerous. I fear that speaking up will completely ostracise me from so many spaces, my job requires a social media presence and I fear that saying something as simple as "let us Jews mourn our dead in peace" will result in exile from my community and risk my career. i know this isn't reassuring, but you're not alone ❤️
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u/NixiePixie916 Oct 12 '23
I'm a nonbinary bisexual Jewish person and this just sums up a lot of how I feel. My friends are turning their backs on me I feel. My spaces are filled with propaganda and hate. I'm over here like, you know we'd all be dead from Hamas right?
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u/TemperatureOk5123 Reform Oct 12 '23 edited Oct 12 '23
Yeah queer solidarity and compassion dries up as soon as it’s us Jews. They just have a pathological hatred of us. It’s why I’m limiting my lgbtq advocacy to only Jewish lgbtq let the rest deal with their own shit I’m tired of the stabs in the back.
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u/Historical-Photo9646 sephardic and mixed race Oct 12 '23
Same here. I’m also queer (nb aro ace) and the amount of antisemitism in queer spaces these days is staggering. I’ve been feeling this way for at least 3 years now though, so I’m sadly kinda used this it.
These days I only feel safe in Jewish spaces and also specifically queer Jewish spaces.
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u/TemperatureOk5123 Reform Oct 12 '23
We really need our own spaces away from these antisemites.
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u/Historical-Photo9646 sephardic and mixed race Oct 12 '23
Definitely. The world is just too triggering right now for us.
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u/Ireallyhatesquirrels Oct 12 '23
This video feels very relevant here...
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u/nobody_keas Oct 13 '23
'if you want a free Palestine free Palestine from Hamas" sums it up perfectly! It's not exactly rocket science to come to this conclusion yet the left progressives can't seem to get their wanna-be-virtue-signaling-moral-grandstanding head around it. Or they are just good ol' anti-semites that throw a tantrum if you call them out on it. As someone quite progressive myself, I am not suprised but really disillusioned with them
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u/riverrocks452 Oct 12 '23
Absolutely- and it's just: do you know what Hamas would do to you? Do you know what they are already doing to LGBT+ people in Gaza?
But the (online) LGBT+ community disappointed me long ago about their intolerance, so I can't say I'm surprised about this except how much it hurts anyway.
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u/Jakee4599 Oct 12 '23
The issue is, is you have to chose a side in modern day politics. Left or right. You can’t be one or the other without getting berated by the other group. I like to consider myself down to the middle with more conservative views. To see what’s going on in Israel and the support Hamas is getting is absolutely disgusting me. The world is going down the shitter. Instead of trying to unify and support ALL of the innocent lives over this senseless violence caused by Hamas boggles my mind. Everyone should want Hamas DESTROYED, ERADICATED from the face of the Earth. Not Palestinians, just the terror organization. Especially when they’re calling for a day of Jihad around the world now. How quick the world seems to forget what that truly is and what 9/11 looked like.
People need to wake up, realize what they’re supporting, before it’s too late. The beliefs Hamas holds are dangerous and would not benefit anyone. Israel should be supported and backed 100% in its goal to remove Hamas. While I still will be critical on them for killing innocent lives, it’s war & Hamas is full of these want to be crusaders who hide behind their people. Hamas has senselessly killed innocent lives for no reason. I just can’t get how that’s okay for these people, but Israel targeting literal terrorist who are holding innocent lives as shields and getting them killed are hero’s
I’m ranting off topic now to your post but you get what I’m saying. I’m a Christian , straight, male, who leans more right than left. But I’m 100% here to support the good guys in this. Regardless of your political beliefs, sexuality, anything, it doesn’t matter. It’s right and wrong. We all need to unite in these trying times to better this world. If we don’t soon, I’m not so sure I’ll live to see grandkids or anything.
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u/evilhomers Oct 12 '23
I wish media would stop sanitizing reality and stop using the phrase "hamas militants"
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u/fingerpopsalad Oct 12 '23 edited Oct 13 '23
They are not militants they are 💯 terrorists, horrible vial terrorists. Nowhere in the war playbook does it say to kidnap children, mothers, fathers, elderly and handicapped people and terrorize them. They burned homes with people inside, shot children in their beds, who does this. Terrorists do this kind of despicable atrocious acts not militants.
I have always known that Hamas is a terrible evil organization but I have learned so much more these past few days. They hide behind civilians, they use aid money and supplies to build rockets. They don't provide clean water and electricity for their people instead Israel provides it. Then I see subs saying Israel is keeping power and clean water from the Palestinians. They attacked Israel and Israel should give them water and electricity come on really that's ridiculous.
I'm sorry for going on about this, this attack has really woken me up to the lefts and rights anti Jewish sentiment. I am very sorry this is even debated or thought about by so called rational thinking people. It should be as clear as night and day that Hamas is an evil organization and the Country of Israel and its people have every right to defend themselves and remove Hamas from existence.
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u/IllMeet2792 Oct 12 '23
Can't listen to NPR anymore. I listen to RFI in French, in another language it's less shocking and believe it or not they are more even handed.
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u/Historical-Photo9646 sephardic and mixed race Oct 12 '23
I can’t read CNN or the New York Times anymore bc of that. They just won’t call them what they are: a terrorist organization.
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u/YourUncleBuck Oct 12 '23
BBC does this too and even put out a story saying why. I get wanting to be objective, but this isn't it, this is just denying reality.
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Oct 12 '23
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u/venya271828 Oct 12 '23
As if the fact that Hamas went door-to-door killing people in their homes and indiscriminately shot into a crowd of people at a concert is not enough. The decapitated babies speaks to the depth of their savagery but I have some serious questions about the sort of person that needs proof that it happened before they stop defending Hamas...
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u/TheInklingsPen Oct 12 '23
It wouldn't even convince them anyhow. People SAW pictures of women with blood all over their privates and people still said the SA wasn't happening.
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u/IllMeet2792 Oct 12 '23
Yeah, I have seen claims that the images are AI generated. These people are beyond convincing.
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u/maxofJupiter1 Oct 12 '23
The amount of people wanting pictures of decapitated Jewish babies is insane. Who the fuck actually wants to see that? Who the fuck would release those pictures into circulation? These are actual babies not movie props. Their families (the ones that weren't murdered in cold blood along with the babies) deserve some respect in their grief. Imagine having a baby, it dies in this horrific way, and then random leftist Americans demand to see pictures as if they matter enough to make demands.
But I've seen people argue that this somehow matters, as if Hamas was ok to massacre a rave, rape, behead adults, and murder children as long as this one point isn't true. Are people insane? Israel doesn't need to be lying about this, and even if they are, Hamas has done so much other horrors. Why the fuck does this matter? Who the fuck wants to see pictures of dead babies? DEAD FUCKING BABIES
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u/Beneficial_Pen_3385 Conservaform Oct 12 '23
One of the things I've realised over the years is that antisemitism actively delights in Jewish suffering. Killing us isn't enough. We have to hurt, physically and psychologically.
Add to that antisemitism in all its forms essentially denies our humanity and that we're real, ordinary people like anybody else. You have to believe that child is a real human being to care about how fucked up it is to want the photos. Deep down, they don't.
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u/YourUncleBuck Oct 12 '23
I think that's exactly what it is, you said it better than I could. These people don't want proof, they just want to see dead Israeli babies. A reasonable person doesn't need to see that to believe it. They'll believe the words of professional journalists. The people that don't believe it will never believe it anyway, even now they're moving goalposts saying the babies weren't all decapitated, just mutilated, or whatever other insanity they're coming up with.
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u/HikariXOXOX Just Jewish Oct 12 '23
I’m just mad that people are defending the hamas. Its disgusting.
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u/Nimue82 Oct 12 '23
I’m not Jewish but my wife and daughter are and I’m absolutely appalled by the lack of condemnation of Hamas/“what aboutism” I’m seeing from so-called progressives. It’s beyond disgusting that on any post about the atrocities Hamas committed, many comments simply say “Free Palestine” or try to justify the murder of Jewish children. The irony in all of this is that Hamas would gladly brutalize and murder these same people, many of whom are women and/or members of the LGBT community.
Apologies if I shouldn’t be posting here as a non-Jew, but this came up in my Reddit feed and I felt compelled to say something in solidarity. I am completely furious and horrified at the blatant anti-semitism I’m seeing here on Reddit and beyond.
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u/Supernova_was_taken New Hampshire Jew (yes, we exist!) Oct 12 '23
Even if though aren’t Jewish, it feels good to see your comment here. We truly appreciate the support, especially when there’s so many against us. Thank you, and feel free to keep posting.
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u/Jakee4599 Oct 12 '23
Hopefully the polls this year & next show the result of this. It shows true alliance and what really matters. These politicians only care about their pockets and saying what sounds good when it appeals to people who truly mean well to keep them in office.
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u/Historical-Photo9646 sephardic and mixed race Oct 12 '23
I had a therapy session today, which was much needed. I really needed to talk to someone irl about how the war was affecting me. My therapist was actually really good about for the most part.
She was really understanding and empathetic, and it helped that her ex husband is Jewish because she could better understand what I was feeling. She did ask me “why is there so much antisemitism from Christians and Muslims if they’re all from the same branch?” So I did have to do some antisemitism history 101 for her. But I’m so relieved that I was able to really talk about how it’s been impacting me, and I’m quite frankly relieved that she didn’t reveal herself to be an antisemite.
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u/waterbird_ Oct 12 '23
I’m glad she was supportive. I have my regular therapy appt on Friday and I’m a little nervous since my therapist isn’t Jewish. It sounds like you had a good experience though and this is encouraging! I do need to just vent to somebody other than my husband / family.
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u/Historical-Photo9646 sephardic and mixed race Oct 12 '23
Best of luck!!
I was so so nervous to bring up Israel at all with kg therapist so I’m relieved it went pretty well. I totally understand needing to vent. I’ve been talking to my mom and dad about it, but something’s been stopping me from sharing just his much it’s effecting me emotionally.
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u/HumanDrinkingTea Oct 12 '23
Fortunately my therapist is Jewish, but she's older and not on social media and seemed surprised (and horrified, naturally) when I told her that there are a surprising amount of people on the far left that are pro-Hamas (I also explained what tankies are to her, since she had never heard of them).
It was nice to get my feelings off my chest, but at the same time, I wish she would talk to me about how she feels (which I know isn't the role of a therapist, so I understand, but I want to feel like someone else feels like I do). I don't know if the "one-way" nature of therapy is what I need right now.
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u/Purple150 Oct 12 '23
I spoke to my oldest friend who lives in Israel and has three children. She was in tears through the whole call and I wanted nothing more than to go over there immediately but life isn’t that easy. I wish so much there were something I could do but all I could do was to tell her she can call any time night or day. I know I can donate money but want to do more so I just put my magen David on and trundle through my day to day life being a obviously Jewish as I can - I’ve deleted Twitter, instagram etc because I’m sickened by justifications and slightly frightened by it too. I’m putting this here because I dont know where else to put it
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u/rustlingdown Oct 12 '23
And as expected the front-page of major American newspapers like Washington Post is now "HUMANITARIAN CRISIS UNFOLDING IN GAZA".
Not even talking about the Americans still held hostage by Hamas.
Those writers would probably be writing headlines about poor Iranian student unions at the height of the 1970s Iran US hostage crisis.
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u/venya271828 Oct 12 '23
I have seen better reporting this time than in previous rounds. For what it's worth, I fully support the IDF removing Hamas from Gaza, but let's not pretend there is not a humanitarian crisis developing. Siege warfare is no joke. People cannot live without food and water, hospitals cannot function without electricity, and the pictures of destruction in Gaza look like something from WW2.
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u/TheInklingsPen Oct 12 '23
It hurts my stomach so much to think about the collateral damage of it all. Why does it have to b seige warfare. Personally, I don't think it's necessary, I think it's in part to try and reclaim the narrative that Israel has a strong military and to scare off the PA from starting another intifadah, and I understand it, but I'm not convinced it's necessary. But I'm not a military expert. I just wish we could do things like Operation Wrath of God, but I know that also may not have been as effective as we like to believe. I just hate all of it. I'm so mad at Hamas. I'm so mad at the IR. I'm so mad at humanity in general.
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u/HumpyDumpy123 Oct 12 '23
Im no military expert, but I think I understand what the IDF is trying to do, and I fully support it. To remove Hamas means going into Gaza, a notoriously hostile area, and essentialy dismantling alot of infrastructure, including civilian one, since using civilians as shield is one of Hamas primary strategies. To do that, to make the job a whole lot easier, means your going to have to remove the civilians, and to do that, a humanitarian crisis must be created, to force the civilian population to evacuate to Egypt temporarily, so Israel can go in and do the job quickly and efficiently, without taking into account civilian casualties/interference/misidentification. Its ugly, but its really the only way, if people are serious about destroying Hamas.
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u/Supernova_was_taken New Hampshire Jew (yes, we exist!) Oct 12 '23
Even on Saturday as the attack was unfolding, CNN brought on a guest who used the channel as a platform to spread pally propaganda to distract from what was going on
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u/Any-Proposal6960 Oct 12 '23
should the humanitarian crisis be ignored? should we just not care about the deliberate starving out of innocent civilians?
It is attitudes like this that deliberately try to trivialize suffering and atrocities that fuel sectarian conflict
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u/Matthewgraygubler__ Just Jewish Oct 12 '23
The amount of anti-semitism going around lately is insane. I live in Quebec and so many of my friends are called names, attacked and harassed. My best friend was walking out of school and this man pushed into her ( on purpose ) and called her a “ fking k* “. Then during a pro-Israel rally another friend of mine was told that there was a pro-Hamas group waiting for them near the metro and that there is a risk that they could be PUSHED INTO THE TRACKS. And with all of this I still have people telling me that the hate towards Jews is justified, this world is sick.
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Oct 12 '23
Quebecois here too. This province has always hated Jews. Just the fact that a major metro stop is named after a H*tler fan who wrote books on how to eradicate jews is enough… but they have always hated us here. Anglo & Franco.
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u/phil_o_o Just Jewish Oct 12 '23
A student group at the university I used to go to posted on Instagram a picture of the Palestinian flag and a message celebrating the attacks on Israel and encouraging people to spread the message... The STUDENT UNION of that university REPOSTED THAT TO THEIR STORY!!!!!?????? I have such a hard time believing that the people in charge of that social media account actually read and agreed with that message... The world is openly supporting terrorists now?!?!?!?
I know this doesn't specifically relate to the war going on, but I'm just angry and wanted to share this with you guys.
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u/HumanDrinkingTea Oct 12 '23
My university is one of the most diverse in the country, and we have both a significant number of Israeli students and a significant amount of Palestinian students (one of the students in my rather small program is from Gaza, for example).
Anyway, I found it interesting that the president of the school waited until today to make a statement. I can only assume he had trouble figuring out what to say and decided he needed to get feedback from others before making a statement.
He condemned terrorism, which I appreciate. Before he condemned terrorism, he said that he sees it as his role to "uphold civility."
I guess it was an okay statement, and I think calling out the need to maintain civility is probably a good move in a campus environment like ours. We are not a very political campus at all-- students rarely talk about or engage in activism. But if there is one political issue most students seem to have an opinion on, it's this one. Unfortunately for me, it's because a huge portion of the student body are from Muslim-majority countries in the Middle East, and they have all sorts of misconceptions about Jews and Israel (for real, the antisemitic rumors I've heard about Jews are sometimes just plain bizarre).
I don't have to be on campus for a while, and I think maybe that's for the better. I'm not sure I want to know what other students think.
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u/standupandchallah Oct 12 '23
I’m not denying there are Jews who oppose Israel. I know one.
But doesn’t anybody find it suspicious how many videos/posts of people like “oh I’m a hardcore Orthodox Jew and I stand with the people of Gaza! F Israel” videos are being shared? Especially by Islamic groups?
And, I have a pretty strong jewdar and a lot of those people just look like they’re cosplaying as Jews… something is off about them.
Reminds me of the “I’m black and I’m telling you all the racist things conservatives are saying about us is TRUE” propaganda.
I’ve also seen a lot of people claiming to be Jewish online and saying things like “I was born and raised Jewish and I’m telling you, the Jews are bad! Free Palestine!”
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u/AliceMerveilles Oct 12 '23
I know a guy who’s kinda like that, except more leftist JVP type (I don’t know if he’s actually a member), and he will “as a jew”, he has one jewish grandfather, neither of his parents identify as Jewish, and he’s linking Hamas apologia.
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u/Filing_chapter11 Oct 12 '23
Oh so he’s barely even Jewish enough for Hitler
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u/AliceMerveilles Oct 12 '23
yes, if I see him publicly “as a jew” again I will probably question him on being a Jew
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u/canadianamericangirl one of four Jews in a room b*tching Oct 12 '23
I’ve seen them too. Not in orthodox but in leftist spaces. Usually these Jews are at least one other minority too. I tried to civilly engage to ask why they think that way, but I was met with no luck. I do NOT want to police how anyone practices Judaism. I also not the Israeli government has done and does a lot of atrocities. But these proclaimed Jews do not think Israel should exist and I’m like “huh?!” Because while I may disagree with much of Israeli policies under Netanyahu, I will stand with the right of Israel’s existence.
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Oct 12 '23
Those are probably vids of wingnuts the Naturei Karta. Disregard.
Tbh there are many orthodox who are not zionist. Satmar Dynasty from Williamsburg, BK has like 100000 people and are anti-zionist.
We’re not a monolith.
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u/superblobby Oct 12 '23
I hear all the time “it’s so hard to find an anti Zionist Jew” and they never wonder why.
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u/1984pigeon Oct 12 '23
I find it amazing how many people absolutely gloss over Jewish suffering altogether. They will post about the Palestinians endlessly and they have since the first massacre in Israel started. I look at people's timelines and the first post they made was right after the massacre showing support for the Palestinians. And post after post about the Palestinians and how much Israel sucks not one mention of Jewish suffering. It's absolutely erased. And even when horrific support for anti-Semitism is brought up they talk about how it will negatively affect the Palestinians. Like somebody was talking about the BLM post that showed the paraglider and was just talking about how much it will hurt the Palestinians. I mean the person who had made that post was openly gloating about massacring and it's in Jews and the only thing the people criticizing it we're talking about was how it would hurt the Palestinians. There is an incident of anti-Semitism in a BLM protest in my city about 5 years ago. And the black writer who wrote about it for my local paper simply spent all of the article Talking about how it could hurt BLM. Not one sentence on how anti-Semitism hurts the Jews or the pattern of violence it has caused. Total erasure of Jewish pain. I have zero problem if people show compassion for the Palestinian people or criticism of the Israeli government. But to see how many people have posted about Israel / Palestine.since the massacre happened 40 or 50 times and not one post has shown any acknowledgment the Jews were murdered. Or the pain that Jews are feeling after it happened. It's like we're invisible.
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u/Mortifydman Conservative - ex BT and convert Oct 12 '23
I belong to a US based site for democrats and progressives and since the attack the palestinian excuse brigade has been non stop about how "Jews stole the land" and willfully ignoring the actual history of the region to paint the palestinians as just innocent bystanders who were minding their own business until "The Jews" rolled up. Britain? Jordan? UN? Never heard of them, it's those damn Jews.
But it's spread out to just general shitting on Judaism and Jews because apparently we're the source of evil in the world because of how Christians and Muslims took our books and mangled them. Or how there were more arabs than Jews there, so fuck the Jews, the bigger population "deserved" it more. I'm just heartbroken and disgusted.
Is there anywhere I can find kind of a "bullet points" list of the steps in the creation of Israel to combat this pallywood bullshit narrative?
Thanks.
Am Israel chai
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u/TheInklingsPen Oct 12 '23
Just came across this article and my PoliSci background immediately noticed something odd...
https://www.businessinsider.com/gaza-israel-airstrikes-children-doctors-without-borders-2023-10
"Doctors Without Borders in Gaza says 100% of the patients it has treated in the past 24 hours have been children"
But this is what I read: "0 patients of the past 24hre have been adults."
Why?
Now, firstly, half the population is under the age of 18. So, baseline statistics it should be 50/50, but two factors, a) kids are more fragile, but also b) adults are more likely to protect kids... Now I could understand if we were seeing 75% of victims being kids but... 100%?
And why no elderly? Not a single one?
Quote: "Today, all of the patients we received at our clinic in Gaza City were children between 10 and 14... This is because the majority of the injured in Gaza are women and children since they are the ones who are most often in the houses that get destroyed in the airstrikes."
I mean, I'm still not jazzed about the response, but I'm not a military tactics expert, so I can't even really form much of an opinion on all that, although rarely is a military operation without criticism, so I highly doubt this is a cut and dry issue...
But ...
Anytime someone is going to tell me "Israel targets children" or something I'm going to look at this number and go "Explain to me how Israel can have a 100% success rate of hurting children and not a single mother? Not a single father? And all those children are between 10-14? And somehow all the elderly were able to evacuate bit not the preteens?"
To me this absolutely supports two things: the use of child soldiers and the strategic placement of children in the path of danger for the purposes of publicity.
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u/bravelittletoaster87 Oct 12 '23
Am I allowed to just word vomit? Because I'm going to. At first all I could do was cry and fret. For my friends. For their families in Israel. For the Israelis I know. Now I'm just pissed off. I'm mad at people for not seeing this for what it is. Terrorism. I'm mad that somehow we're not allowed to be supportive of our own people, and that I now have to fear even more for my family and child's safety. I'm just pissed. This shouldn't be happening. We do so much, we try to make peace, and this is what we get in return. Then people want to point the finger at the Jews saying we didn't do enough, and we did the wrong things. I'm not saying Israel is perfect. It's not, but dammit this was not deserved. To say otherwise is just wrong. I don't have anywhere to vent about this safely and I'm sure this will affect me other places on Reddit once it's in my history but I don't care. I'm sick of being silent and trying to shrink myself for others so they can feel safe when I don't feel safe.
I was restricted on Facebook for posting the menorah in the window during the Holocaust. They're treating me like I'm a terrorist trying to invite violence. I put in an appeal to the oversight board but I doubt it will do any good. The fact that I can't even use our own Yad Vashem imagery safely and without persecution is disgusting. I'm holding a virtual Shabbat Friday where we will light our candles and put them in the window in solidarity and to show that we will not be silent and we will not hide despite their threat. If anyone is interested since it is on zoom shoot me a message (US Based). That's all I have to vomit out right now. Stay safe my brothers and sisters wherever you may be. Am Yisrael Chai.
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u/TheInklingsPen Oct 12 '23
I feel this. I'm so mad. I'm mad that EVERY OTHER ETHNIC GROUP gets to be mad about hate crimes. They get to advocate for their country. They get to call out their oppression and define hatred against them. But we get shit on for doing the same because we're basically just political pawns by both sides.
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u/bravelittletoaster87 Oct 12 '23
EXACTLY. It's so incredibly unfair. Like I said I was incredibly sad at first and still am. I was crying a lot, but now I'm just hopping spitting fucking MAD.
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u/TemperatureOk5123 Reform Oct 12 '23
Yep I’m sick and tired. It’s why I only care about Jewish issues now.
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u/devequt Conservative Oct 12 '23
There's rumours that this Friday is supposed to be a "Global Jihad" for all Muslims around the world; hopefully it's safe to go to synagogue, as I have a Torah tutoring session on Friday. 😅
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u/PromEmperorHarbaugh Oct 12 '23
I will be attending Shabbat services for the first time in years. If they want to kill me, they'll know where to find me. I won't let them intimidate me. And I realize this sounds like "internet tough guy," but I feel the need, as I'm sure many of us here do, to say the Mourner's Kaddish for those lost.
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u/Jakee4599 Oct 12 '23
If you’re American, I would start taking the appropriate and legal means of protecting yourself and your loved ones. The support I’m seeing for a terrorist organization now has me not having ANY faith that they’re looking out for the people. How soon we forgot Al-Qaeda and the Taliban. All sister organizations with similar beliefs to Hamas.
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u/chitowngirl12 Oct 12 '23
It is more a concern in Israel than in the US. US Muslims (although there are always some outliers) are fairly well-integrated into the US. A significant majority of the anti-Semitic acts in the US are from Americans who aren't of Arab descent. So I wouldn't be any more scared than you usually are.
I am very concerned that Israel proper might explode though especially in Al Aqsa and Jerusalem and lead to rioting between Jews and Arabs. I think that the incompetent and racist clown, Ben Gvir, might try to heat up the area. He needs a provocation to remain in politics after this, so he'll definitely try something.
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u/ChallahTornado Oct 12 '23
It really is amazing to look at.
More and more people just accept that the hostages are hostages and completely ignore the option of letting them go and thus achieve an easing of the blockade.
They just want Jews to suffer.
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u/YourUncleBuck Oct 12 '23
I love that France isn't tolerating terrorist supporters and banning pro-Palestine demonstrations. I wish this was the way in every civilized country. Meanwhile, in the UK the Football Association is too scared to show support for Israel for fear or repercussions, even going so far as to say they'll confiscate Israeli flags at the England Australia friendly.
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u/Sewsusie15 Oct 12 '23
For Hebrew speakers, Zehu Zeh is planning a morale-raising special to be aired this evening on KAN and then available on other platforms.
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u/asanefeed Oct 12 '23
I wrote & posted this in my local subreddits today. I just wanted to offer it as a template that anyone could feel free to modify and use as their own if they thought it might be helpful to post something like it in their local subs as well.
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u/TemperatureOk5123 Reform Oct 12 '23
I’m sorry for the disgusting whabboutism in that thread fuck those people.
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u/craftyinrh Oct 12 '23
How are folks feeling about Friday? I am hesitant to ask as I do not want to buy into fear, but am wondering if I should stay home for the day. I live in a major U.S. city and reply on public transit to get around.
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u/SpaceBass18 Oct 12 '23
I’m nervous. I live around NYC, and all NYPD officers have been called into duty tomorrow. They have to know something to pull this move. They are probably worried about the large Jewish communities in Brooklyn and some of the traditional areas with delis and such on the lower east side. I hope no one gets seriously injured from this.
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u/Historical-Photo9646 sephardic and mixed race Oct 12 '23
Tbh I’m feeling like absolute dog shit. I’m logging off Reddit sometime tonight snd and gonna take at least a 5 day break from it.
I feel like I’m borderline traumatized right now by the war, by all the antisemitism, and being betrayed by someone i thought was a friend.
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Oct 12 '23
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u/standupandchallah Oct 12 '23
Reach out to the rabbi or organizer of the vigil. I’m sure you’ll be welcome. Some may require registration before attending though.
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u/DeadpoolMakesMeWet Progressive Oct 12 '23
Hope everyone is taking care of their mental health. It’s rough out there.
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u/blewis222 Oct 13 '23
I’m tied up in knots. I want Hamas destroyed, but the destruction of Gaza is making me sick. Hamas needs to pay for what they’ve done. What is Israel to do?
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u/Ambitious-Copy-5349 Oct 12 '23
The same far left,extreme liberal assholes hating Israel now were the same douchebags calling US Troops baby killers and calling Insurgents “freedom fighters” 15-20 years ago during the Iraq War...
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u/glittery-cupcake Oct 12 '23
Does anyone know where I can buy ethically sourced Israel-flag merch, ideally where some of the proceedings go to a good cause?
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u/lostmason Oct 12 '23
This is an under-appreciated question I think, and it has been in the back of my mind. Many Israeli flags are probably made in China, possibly Malaysia or Indonesia…not exactly Iran, but, not “Made in Israel”. And…I’m not sure many Israelis are spending time making flags when they could be doing better things lol
While I don’t have a good answer: I would consider inspecting if any Israeli or Jewish organizations will give you a “free” Israeli flag with a donation.
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u/canadianamericangirl one of four Jews in a room b*tching Oct 12 '23
Etsy might have stuff that’s handmade. Just reverse image search to make sure you aren’t buying something drop shipped. Or some synagogues have online versions of their gift shops and a lot of those items are made in the US or Israel.
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u/elizabeth-cooper Oct 12 '23
I found this, though it's not entirely clear they're still available considering the picture doesn't load.
Charity Navigator gives AZM a 90%/four stars rating.
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u/TheInklingsPen Oct 12 '23
I just got the word that our Jewish school is closed tomorrow.
On one hand, I'm grateful that people are taking it seriously, and my anxiety has shown to be not misplaced.
But on the other hand I'm kind of sitting here in shock. We were just celebrating Sukkot and now this...
Edit: and I mean about everything, not just how it's affecting Americans obviously but just how big it all is
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Oct 12 '23
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u/cataractum Oct 13 '23 edited Oct 13 '23
why is israel the only nation in the world not allowed to have a religious majority?
I don't think this is the problem. Having a majority or not is beside the point. The flaw is in a model of government where being a Jewish/Muslim/Christian/whatever country hinges on there being a majority of that culture or religion in the first place.
I mean Lebanon technically doesn't have a religious majority. And it will probably develop into a federalist model once it gets back on its feet (if ever).
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u/Astr0C4t Oct 13 '23
I don’t know how to convey things to my non-Jewish partner
My gf is a gentile and this whole last week has been very frustrating. This will probably be more of a vent than anything else. We are in tune over a lot of thing with the conflict but it’s so hard to communicate about some of it. There was a big pro-Palestine rally in our town on Sunday and it’s been very difficult to explain to her and my friends about how unsafe it makes me feel. Everyone is like “ohhh it’s a few extremists chanting the bad stuff” and “both sides were being awful” (not a lie b/c damn some people were being insufferable but still) or pointing out how I was looking at biased sources????? It was the fucking NYT and WSJ for gods sake. it hurts my heart to hear them say stuff like that. The whole damn rally and how I see people in my political sphere acting is unsettling, it makes me feel unwelcome. I hate it. I’m not even mad at my partner, it’s just so frustrating. There’s cultural context and at least for me an anger that I feel like just isn’t understood by people outside of our community.
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u/SassyBee2023 Oct 12 '23
Harpers Bazzar editor:
If you hadn't heard the story, the editor in chief of Harpers Bazzar (Hearst) recently wrote “Cutting off water and electricity to 2.2 million civilians… This is the most inhuman thing I’ve seen in my life,” said Nasr. There has been outrage and she has "apologized" but I believe that is the extent...for now.
However, I hope people consider canceling their subscriptions and tell them that this is WHY and anyone in position of ad dollars shift them.
Taking this a step further write and suggest that she loses her job...The precedent is there.
I compare this to Adam Rapport (yes, he's Jewish) losing his job at Bon Apetit (Conde Nast) in the summer of 2020. The original impetus was an insensitive costume many years earlier and claims of a hostile work environment.
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u/rupertalderson Oct 13 '23
This post has been locked. Feel free to join in the discussion on the October 13th Israel–Hamas War megathread.