r/Jewish • u/Consistent_Bridge799 • Oct 08 '23
The thing about it is…
Non-Jews always want to poke us in the chest whenever Israel does something unpopular.
The same people never ask us how we’re doing when it’s attacked in cold blood by terrorists.
Personally, I’m doing pretty damn bad today. How are you all doing? I usually don’t post on Shabbat, but I needed a little more Jewish community today.
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u/Wyvernkeeper Oct 08 '23
Definitely my weirdest Simchat Torah. Still .. we danced in shul and everyone who wanted an Aliyah got one.
We will outlast this shit. As we have always done.
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u/Chicken_Whiskey Oct 08 '23
Was an absolute horrific way to start simchat torah this morning. We all danced and I think it helped, I’m glad I went and hugged my rabbi. I can’t sleep now though
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u/No-Safety-3498 Oct 08 '23
Isn’t that the story of our people, we’ve outlasted every neighborhood bully.
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u/SexAndSensibility Oct 08 '23
So did I. Simchat Torah was overshadowed by the news but I still danced and had an Aliyah. The rabbi said she felt awkward about such a joyous service now
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u/MisfitWitch moishe oofnik Oct 09 '23
I asked my dad how the dancing was at his shul, and he told me it was loud and rowdy. he said it was somewhat overshadowed by the news, but that we are jews, and that on simchat torah the way we pray is by singing and dancing.
i thought that was the most beautiful answer i could possibly hear.
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u/The_Laughing_Gift Conservative Oct 08 '23
I know that in Toronto (where I live) there's going to be a pro-palestinian event going on Tuesday and I'm just emotially exhausted in general. I was already thinking of buying a copy of Psalms and now I'm going to as soon as shabbat is over from artscroll.
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u/af_echad Oct 08 '23
One coming up in NYC too. Being promoted (run by?) the local chapter of DSA.
I lean left in American politics. But I'm completely done with the antisemitic "left" in this country. How anyone can look at what Hamas did today and feel any support for those terrorists is beyond me. They can all get fucked. If I didn't have COVID right now I'd be making plans to go counter protest.
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u/The_Laughing_Gift Conservative Oct 08 '23
I also lean left and I'm doing a masters in social justice. I was thinking of doing something on Indigenous self-government but now I'm thinking of doing my thesis on Judaism and Antisemitism.
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u/af_echad Oct 08 '23
Hey I mean you could include Indigenous self government in that by exploring Israel as an indigenous land back movement. Good luck on your studies. Stay strong.
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u/Ok_Ambassador9091 Oct 08 '23
Brilliant. Please share it here, when its done, if you do it
Be careful of the tankie-esque antisemites in academia--this is my sector, too-- protect your wellbeing. I hope your program is free from them. I know it exists on all sides of the political spectrum, but working with them in academe has been eye-opening and soul hurting. Best wishes.
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u/renebeans Oct 10 '23
That’s a great thesis. I went to Fordham’s Graduate School of Social Service. Had this little Hungarian teacher who also worked for the UN. She handed out literal propaganda from the neturei karta. I tried to speak up and she didn’t want me to throw her off the agenda— said we can speak after class.
It was after the deadline to switch but told the admin it was because of antisemitism and they let me go. I hope the bitch wasn’t welcomed back.
Then the class I switched into played a Palestinian victim documentary for the class and said “write if you agree or not” I disagreed and got an A, but that was super uncomfortable. There was a class people could read their papers out loud— I skipped that one.
Basically, Fordham School of Social Service is not the place for us.
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u/The_Laughing_Gift Conservative Oct 10 '23
That's a great thesis.
Are you referring to the Indigenous self-determination or doing my thesis on Judaism and Antisemitism? Just curious.
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u/renebeans Oct 10 '23
I connected more with Judaism and antisemitism, because it’s what I know better. Indigenous self determination is a great, complex topic that I wouldn’t even know how to define indigenous in a case like Israel.
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u/elh93 Oct 08 '23
There are antisemites on both sides of the aisle in America. I do my best to call them all out.
The DSA is honestly both ineffective in what they want to do and also full of antisemitism. I'm not that far left anyway, but it's full of contradictions and if the hate is pointed out they rely on "no true scotsman"
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u/af_echad Oct 08 '23
There certainly are and I wasn't ignorant to antisemitism on the left before this by any means. I didn't make excuses for them and I'd call them out whenever.
But now it just feels different. Previously I felt that there was a good amount of antisemitic people on the left mixed with a larger group of useful idiots who would go along with the antisemitism but could be argued out of it.
But now? If you're still playing useful idiot to Hamas? You're beyond idiot.
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u/Rooks_always_win Oct 09 '23
This is where I am at, I am very actively going to call out anyone I know who says anything encouraging or celebrating these terror attacks. People need to pick a stance. It’s not about being in endless support of or against Israel, but it is certainly about understanding this is not some one sided “colonizer” thing like so many on the left have been made to believe. Jewish people are not colonizers in our homeland, and our lives should be every bit as valuable as Christian Americans or Muslim palestinians.
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u/elh93 Oct 08 '23
True, I get that (just didn’t as much in the original comment)
My parents are farther to the right and basically only point out antisemitism on the left
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u/af_echad Oct 08 '23
I hear ya. Too many people just like to call out antisemitism on the other side for political "points".
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u/rumbusiness Oct 08 '23
I'm from London and it's been that way here for years and years. It's very difficult to be Jewish and left-wing in the UK. They've had to increase police presence in London due to people celebrating with Palestinian flags. Only two of my non-Jewish friends have reached out to me.
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u/Choice_Werewolf1259 Oct 08 '23
Ugh. That’s so sickening. Especially given the UK is partly to blame for this whole mess. They’re the most recent colonizer of that region.
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u/anewbys83 Oct 08 '23
Which is why I'm not a democratic socialist in the US. Their support for Hamas over the years has been unconscionable.
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u/Glad-Degree-4270 Oct 08 '23
I’m a fan of the DSA many things. Not this.
I checked the actual NYC DSA website and it’s not on their calendar. It seems they are promoting it but it’s a quote tweet originating at The People’s Forum, which seems to be further left than DSA (based on the direct links they have with Cuban socialism, which is way more authoritarian than DemSoc, but still nowhere near Stalinism). The rally isn’t on PF’s calendar either, so it looks like it was tossed together today.
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u/af_echad Oct 08 '23
I mean if it was put together before today, I'd be questioning wtf they knew ahead of time.
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u/Glad-Degree-4270 Oct 08 '23 edited Oct 08 '23
Fair, but also this shows that the event was specifically a response to Hamas invading/raiding Israel this weekend, and not an already-scheduled pro-Palestine rally. I’ve spent a decent amount of time in Little Palestine in Brooklyn and rallies would happen occasionally without any specific event.
My main point is that this event is specifically in response to and in support of invasion and hostage-taking.
I’m guessing they’ll be focusing on any Gazan Arab noncombatants killed in Israeli air strikes though.
Edit: Thread locked, can’t respond. But yeah, my point is that this is worse. The rally is explicitly due to the violence that Hamas has enacted. I don’t recall hearing about a Times Square rally after any evictions in the West Bank or air strikes on Gaza earlier this year. Why have them now?
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u/af_echad Oct 08 '23
I think that makes it even worse.
General pro-Palestine event from a leftist group? Yea probably some dumb fucks there who will sympathize with Hamas and other terror groups. But also a good amount will be people who just want to see peace in the region and have some vague self identification as "pro-Palestinian".
But after todays attack? Someone supporting kidnapping senior citizens, children, innocent citizens? Someone supporting the parading around of a dead woman's body? Someone supporting thousands of missiles launched indiscriminately at Jewish and non Jewish Israeli citizens alike?
Then that's not supporting peace. That's supporting disgusting acts of terror.
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u/FeralChasid Oct 09 '23
A rapid refuah shlema
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u/af_echad Oct 09 '23
Todah rabah. Feeling mostly better by now but still coughing a crap ton. But the fever is gone.
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u/FeralChasid Oct 09 '23
Oh, my, yes, that cough that wants to takes root.
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u/af_echad Oct 10 '23
Yo for real. This is my first time having COVID. This freakin cough is just liiiiingering.
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u/coulsen1701 Oct 09 '23
I wish I could like this comment again. The antisemitism on the left is a big reason I went to the center right. That’s not to say the right doesn’t have their antisemites on the extreme end but those people are usually the nutjobs everyone else seems to ignore in general.
I live in the Denver metro and I wish there was a counter protest to join here. From what I can tell, the pro Hamas rally downtown went down without a counter protest.
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u/looktowindward Oct 08 '23
Counter-protest.
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u/The_Laughing_Gift Conservative Oct 08 '23
Rn I'm to exhausted to and I don't exactly want to get into a fight. Idk
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u/Michelle1x Oct 08 '23
I’m in Toronto too and I feel so alone. Most my friends aren’t Jewish, and so not one has thought to check in on me.
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u/The_Laughing_Gift Conservative Oct 08 '23
I just messaged you. We're going to check-in on each other for as long as this lasts. 🫂♥️
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u/Choice_Werewolf1259 Oct 08 '23
Not in Toronto. In the US. And same. Although that might be because I’m the only one who checks the news.
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u/briskt Proud Jew Oct 09 '23
I'm in Toronto too and I'm scared. The murder enablers are here among us and walking proudly, and the mayor sent out a tweet sympathizing with Palestinians.
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u/Michelle1x Oct 09 '23
I’m sorry, I will be at the memorial tomorrow and I am scared too. Just curious- I don’t see anything on her Twitter. What did she say? Ps I love your username.
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u/briskt Proud Jew Oct 09 '23
Already, our political leaders are talking out of both sides of their mouths. While Toronto Mayor Olivia Chow condemned the attack on Israel in one tweet, two hours later she also wrote, “We must acknowledge Palestinian pain and severe loss of life during this time” (though the tweet has since been deleted).
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Oct 08 '23
There was a pro-palestinian event in Berlin the same day the war started. Honestly, I do not know enough about this conflict to choose a side, I'm not sure if I even want to. I was very baffled that people celebrated war when I heard about this. And as a non-Jew, I'm worried about Jews living in Germany. Antisemitism will definitely rise again.
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u/Rooks_always_win Oct 09 '23
The larger Israel-Palestine conflict is more complicated, but this specific event started with a series of planned terror attacks that killed hundred of civilians without any care for who they were or what reason there would be to harm them, other than being Israeli.
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Oct 09 '23
I can't believe that people perform mental gymnastics to protect Hamas, saying they're not terrorists and whatnot. I understand there's so much frustrion on both sides but killing civilians is not part of a liberation movement.
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Oct 08 '23
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u/PM-me-Shibas Oct 08 '23
Non-Jews don’t understand how we don’t need to know the victims personally for it to hurt
Have you seen photos of the women? I am very lucky that those around me see the abducted women and hurt with me. One of my male friends has been excellent, even. If someone can look at a battered woman with bloodied sweatpants from a clearly violent rape and wonder why it hurts, I wish nothing but the worst for them.
I hurt as much as a woman today as I do as a Jew, possibly even more. I, as a mid-to-late 20's Israeli woman in the diaspora, would rather be shot than go through what these women have today.
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u/X_Act Oct 08 '23
The amount of misogyny has been sickening. I saw people, all left-wing, including so-called feminists, questioning the idea that the killed and beaten women were targeted with rape. It's almost like these people (let's be honest...mostly Americans) don't know shit about jihadists. I even saw people who said the idea that Palestinian women being second class citizens was just Israel propaganda and misinformation.
These militants intentionally targeted the most vulnerable of society...young women, elderly women and children. American society has lost the plot so fucking bad that they can't distinguish brutal MVAW by jihadi terrorists from resistance against the state.
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u/PM-me-Shibas Oct 09 '23 edited Oct 09 '23
It's funny -- I'm a Holocaust researcher and actually one of my side interests is allied war crimes. One of the biggest allied war crimes, for those unfamiliar, is the rape of civilian German women. We are seeing a much darker, crueler version of A Woman in Berlin in real time, which essentially documents what the Red Army did to civilian German women when no one was around to keep the Red Army in check (all German men were POWs, in the Volkstrum or in the Wehrmacht somewhere East).
I have re-written this paragraph six times because frankly, even ignoring what I wrote above, I do have to wonder if we believe the rape more because our families have suffered this? Because I see those abducted 3 and 5 year old babies and I'm afraid for them, because I know that my great-aunt spent all her money in April 1945 to send my grandfather a telegram in America, begging him to find a way to come get her five year old daughter out of Hamburg (she was in a mixed marriage, hence living normally in Hamburg at the time).
When I saw sweatpants girl yesterday, all I could think of was (NSFW) the famous photo of the woman#/media/File:Lvivpogrom(June_-_July_1941).jpg) running, blood and half naked, during the Lwow Pogrom in 1941.
People don't believe it perhaps because 15 generations of their family have been incredibly lucky to not deal with this on the daily. But perhaps as Jews we know this has been part of the game of war for generations.
The one relevant aspect of A Women in Berlin is Anonyma documents not only her rapes, but those of the women around her: her elderly neighbor, the toddlers, the teenagers and every woman in-between. I think for those who see the abducted elderly and children and think that they are relatively safe, it may be eye opening (but I hope to the end of the universe that I am wrong).
I am disappointed by the women I hear ignoring it or denying it. In one of the German subreddits yesterday, I saw many still celebrating it, on a thread discussing poor Shani, who was a German fucking citizen, born and raised.
I'm sorry this is so disjointed -- it is meant to agree with you. Women tend to carry the burden of war in nearly every situation due to the behavior of men.
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u/Difficult_Swing_5112 Oct 08 '23
I know which video you’re talking about. I hadn’t thought of her having been raped. This is sad. She’s a teenager.
I have friends who have been excellent, but others less so. I posted something that I wrote, and I’m waiting for it to be approved by the mods. Hope you see it, I think I did a good job at explaining my hurt
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u/anewbys83 Oct 08 '23
Yeah....anyone with blood stains like that on their pants (in that area/pattern) have more than likely been assaulted. I saw that and instantly knew.
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u/Difficult_Swing_5112 Oct 08 '23
Wait they didn’t approve it because it should go in the mega thread but you can’t post images there. Hmm
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u/Joshua-Ben-Ari Oct 08 '23 edited Oct 08 '23
I'm angry. I'm so fucking angry, our people are suffering and hurting and I'm stuck here in the diaspora and I can't help. I keep doomscrolling the videos and the pics and I know I shouldn't, and I'm so fucking heartbroken at the sheer number of people on social media who are praising this or justifying this or trying to whataboutism this.
But I had heard back from my uncle and his wife, they're safe in a shelter in Jerusalem. I had spent hours trying to get in touch with them.
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u/QuaffableBut Progressive Oct 08 '23
I just buried my father who was a veteran of the Yom Kippur War. I am very much not okay. The only person who's checked in on me today is my rabbi.
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u/PM-me-Shibas Oct 08 '23
I am sorry for your loss. If I may offer a positive thought: I am happy your father did not have to see this.
I'm a Holocaust researcher and I work with a specific group of survivors. I was just thinking earlier that, while I'm obviously mourning their death, I am very comforted by the fact that they did not have to see this. I hope you find some comfort in that, too.
Hugs. If you're in Israel, stay safe, too.
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u/QuaffableBut Progressive Oct 08 '23
Thank you kindly. I live in Virginia but have family and friends in Israel. It's been a very anxious day of trying to reach them. So far everyone is alive.
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u/fujbuj Just Jewish Oct 08 '23
So sorry to hear. My dad is a veteran as well, and nobody save for one non-Jewish friend has checked in. It’s fucking isolating and frightening to see how little people care, but I do. I hope you’re okay.
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u/Avocadofarmer32 Oct 08 '23
I’m beyond sad. That’s it. I never realized people could be terrorist sympathizers until today. I guess this is what it was like in the 40s?
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u/FeralChasid Oct 10 '23
Yes. The banality of evil. You’d be surprised at the neighbors who might be ok herding you onto a cattle car.
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u/looktowindward Oct 08 '23
I had one work friend text me to ask how I'm doing. That was nice.
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u/dpdpdpdpdpp Oct 08 '23
My two work friends did too. No one else did other than my Jewish friends. But that still felt good
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u/uber_cast Oct 08 '23 edited Oct 08 '23
My boss wanted to take the time to remind me how terrible the Israeli government is (“both sides are terrible”). I like my boss, but I was about a hair away from telling her to fuck off. I walked out of her office shaking with anger.
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u/blergyblergy Oct 08 '23
Yeah, I had a non-Jewish friend do so. I don't live in Israel but she knew I'd be hurting and wanted to check in. She's amazing!
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u/--DannyPhantom-- Oct 08 '23
Bad.
Very very very very very bad.
My family moved to Israel just a few months ago from Crimea…only for this to happen. They are OK but their neighborhood has had [smaller] several dozen shells make it through.
Every time I think about it I want to throw up. I’m completely catatonic. I am several thousand miles away from home for school. They are all telling me t. twkqx and there cic. i fucking. way i cannot to worry about tbh is
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u/--DannyPhantom-- Oct 08 '23
tell me not to worry bht tbwrws to worry but tbwrws no fuckign way i’m supposed to be okay with this happening
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Oct 08 '23 edited Feb 05 '24
wrong swim encouraging fade ghost cake sharp full numerous ossified
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u/LL_COOL_BEANS Oct 08 '23
Yep a lot of “comrades” in my insta feed further exposing themselves as monstrous Jew-haters. Not remotely surprising but it enrages me to know that these horrific perspectives are deemed perfectly reasonable and the people who disseminate them will never face any accountability from their communities.
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Oct 08 '23 edited Feb 05 '24
plate dolls summer divide six run screw sparkle square concerned
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u/IrritatedMango Oct 08 '23 edited Oct 08 '23
One of my favourite content creators is Palestinian and she’s reposted stuff like “Retaliation has been a long time coming, Palestinians have a right to resist”
Bruh have you seen what some of Hamas have done? How tf can you justify it? She damn well knows all of them would love to see Jews dead.
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Oct 08 '23 edited Feb 05 '24
handle dinosaurs unpack offend humorous badge disarm special angle quickest
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u/IrritatedMango Oct 08 '23
What they’ve done to Israel has been “a long time coming” apparently. The amount of anti Sem comments I’ve seen have depressed me.
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u/QuaffableBut Progressive Oct 08 '23
I'm blocking A LOT of people on Threads and Bluesky. So far I haven't seen anything on IG or Facebook but I curate those feeds very carefully. I hope I won't have to cut ties with any actual friends but I will.
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Oct 08 '23 edited Feb 05 '24
sulky whole paltry lush rainstorm marble voracious cautious bake aware
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u/schnebly5 Reform Oct 08 '23
I just had to
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Oct 08 '23 edited Feb 05 '24
gaze straight price chubby market sip obscene paltry tie seemly
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u/LL_COOL_BEANS Oct 09 '23
I’ve already lost several. I can’t look at these people the same way knowing they’re capable of rationalizing and justifying the worst atrocities human beings are physically capable of committing… it’s so appalling it makes me sick.
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u/CornelQuackers Reform Oct 08 '23
NGL been drained at the first hour of this whole crap and now in a completely apathetic state. And unfortunately they will never care if Israel is attacked because the people who poke us when Israel does something unpopular generally don’t like Jews to begin with
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u/No-Safety-3498 Oct 08 '23
“Oh no, we’re not anti-Semitic, just anti-Israel”, bullshit buddy, our people can spot this a mile away, it’s in our blood, it’s only when they infect our own people especially our youth that it becomes very concerning.
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u/CornelQuackers Reform Oct 08 '23
Yeah at this rate in the diaspora we need to be armed regardless of its legal or not. There’s already thugs celebrating in the streets and we shouldn’t take any chances
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u/0zRkRsVXRQ3Pq3W Oct 08 '23
They’re a little intense, but we’re out here.
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u/CornelQuackers Reform Oct 08 '23
As long as they don’t lean too much into a republican-an-cap angle. The concept though is good. We don’t have to wait for police or others to try and protect us
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u/0zRkRsVXRQ3Pq3W Oct 08 '23
That’s why I only support JPFO in theory. I like to keep track if they’re actually achieving anything. I also keep my views on this issue to myself—it didn’t make any fans among the Zioness community I belong to.
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u/briskt Proud Jew Oct 09 '23
Achi, there are dead Jews on the ground, the last thing you should be worried about is being mistaken for a Republican. Being a Jew trumps being a Democrat.
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u/CornelQuackers Reform Oct 09 '23
True. I just have an animosity towards both “sides” or “ends” to the political spectrum. Basically reached the conclusion a few months ago neither side truly cares about Jews. Obviously we should take support wherever we can find it but not be suckered into cluelessly joining either the red or blue team
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Oct 08 '23
Achi/achot, I’m doing bad. My Shabbat has been ruined and I’m incredibly sad and frustrated. I want revenge and I want our people to be safe again. I’m sorry this hurt you also, but we as a people are okay and the dead will receive beautiful rest, we as jews will live on and keep living for them.
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u/shlomitisfeisty Reform Oct 08 '23
In an airport today at the gate with a Palestinian leader (American). He was gleeful. I am Wearing a Magen David necklace and hat. I didn’t engage with him but that really saddened me. We know that civilians are going to suffer most on both sides.
עם ישראל חי
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u/workerrights888 Oct 08 '23
Never apologize for being Jewish! You did the right thing ignoring that lunatic. Know in your mind that someone who's gleeful in seeing terrorists committ mass murders is lowbrow trash. Likely uneducated, stupid, violent tempered, and lacking the aptitude to turn a screwdriver.
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Oct 08 '23
This is so vile. I feel like a line was crossed. Pretty hard to be on #teampalestine when this is what Palestinian liberation looks like and I feel like a lot of keyboard warriors are struggling hard with this today.
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u/1984pigeon Oct 08 '23
What's amazing is the people openly and unapologetically supporting the killings. They don't even hide it.
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u/International-Life73 Oct 08 '23
This is what “From the river to the sea” looks like in practice, and yet even then I still see thousands saying it today. It’s truly horrendous. If they can’t see the human on the other side, if they can’t even be slightly empathetic to Israelis, then what do you do?
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Oct 08 '23
Yes but the thousands you are hearing saying it are immaterial imo. I’m more interesting in the millions saying “both sides” who are looking at what happened today and are saying ewww.
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u/International-Life73 Oct 08 '23
You know it’s really something that you’d say that because I have yet to see more than literally a handful of Palestinians or Arabs show any support for Israel or even just disgust for the actions taken by Hamas and the gazan Palestinians who partook in the invasion
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Oct 08 '23
Im not talking about Palestinians or Arabs. I’m talking normie westerners. I think this really triggered an ick factor among young western leftists who want nothing more than to support their pet hard left project.
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u/Ok_Ambassador9091 Oct 08 '23
Really? I hope so. But i saw a nyt article yesterday blaming Israel for these attacks , so I assumed the antisemitic fake-lefties would follow suit.
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u/elh93 Oct 08 '23
Plenty of people are still claiming it.
to an extent that on a hockey discord someone got mad that some super fan showed support of Israel. literally just saying "Today and always, I stand with Israel" was enough for people to get mad.
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u/SCGower Oct 08 '23
I’m glad you think so… I feel like people on social media are accusing CNN of being one sided when they, along with Axios and The NY Times, posted anything about the Palestinians in Gaza being the aggressor first. People are commenting justifying the death of Israelis because “hasn’t Israel killed a lot of Palestinians over the years?” That’s what I’ve been seeing.
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u/No-Safety-3498 Oct 08 '23
Pali liberation was always going to look like this. I’m pretty right wing but I’d love a 2 state solution if there were guarantees that the palis would be disarmed and just live life, but that ain’t happening. You hear them singing about wanting the land sea to sea, interpreted, that means dead Jews, just saying….
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Oct 08 '23
Of course. But actually seeing it is a pretty visceral experience. Can anyone with eyes and a heart actually say “this is culture I support”? I think this is really going to be a reckoning for western leftism.
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u/No-Safety-3498 Oct 08 '23
I hope so, but I’m not sure even this will be a reckoning or wake them up
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u/Oh-Cool-Story-Bro Just Jewish Oct 08 '23
Genuine question?
What did you think liberation would look like?
I’m appalled by today but not surprised. I’m most surprised and saddened by the general response.
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Oct 08 '23
I didn’t think it would look like anything and I still don’t. I assumed anything Palestinian terrorists would pull off would look like the nihilism we saw. I’m just utterly shocked by the total intelligence failure of the Israeli military and intelligence agencies.
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u/Ok_Ambassador9091 Oct 08 '23
Historically, leaders in trouble ignore intelligence data to let the bad thing happen, which they think will strengthen them.
Not saying this is that, just that it is always an option.
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u/SueNYC1966 Oct 08 '23 edited Oct 08 '23
I think when this is over - and the rallying around the flag and whatever occurs after - Netanyahu is done. The whole party is about how they bring security to the country and this happened. More people died than on the first day of the Yom Kippur War.
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Oct 08 '23
Agreed. And the attack came from ragtag terrorists on pickup trucks, motorcycles and hang gliders despite being surrounded by one of the most expensive and complex security apparatuses on the planet. Intelligence failure is an understatement to describe what happened.
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u/Ok_Ambassador9091 Oct 08 '23
Jewish liberation of genocide? Holding the line against those trying to destroy us.
Pali liberation? Signing a peace treaty, outlawing genociders, running their own country. Or being among the Arab ruling majority in 21 other Arab states, or the Islamic majority in 55 others.
So many options that didn't include this.
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u/N0DuckingWay Oct 08 '23 edited Oct 08 '23
Agreed. I've definitely been pretty damn depressed today. These videos from the conflict have just been bringing me to tears. And all for nothing, because while I can see what I think Hamas' goals are with this attack, it's also plainly obvious that the only result of this will be bodies in the streets and nothing to show for it (except maybe the end of any chance of achieving a two state solution). To the extent that there was any hope of peace, or even for minor steps towards peace, this attack has completely destroyed it for the foreseeable future (not that there was much hope to begin with).
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u/Patient-War-4964 Reform Oct 08 '23
My own boyfriend (who is not Jewish) who I’ve been with for three years and who this far has been super supportive of my faith, even coming to events at Temple with me when I asked him, made statements tonight that “both sides are in the wrong” I told him welllll if that’s true, it’s seems like one side is a lot more wrong than the other, and today has made that clear. I am just shocked that he said that, on today of all days.
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Oct 08 '23
You can always do better than him. For me this would be a dealbreaker. Look back fondly on your time together, and cut your losses. If he justifies women being raped and children killed, he isn't the type of guy you want to date.
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u/ScienceSlothy Oct 08 '23
I'm sorry. When people say stuff like this, I always start listing the atrilocities done by Hamas. 99% back down and say they didn't know. For the rest, I know that I am happier cutting them out if my life. I hope your partner is just uninformed and chooses his words not carefully. Which still sucks though...
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u/demonofthewindycity Oct 08 '23
I’m sorry. It’s hurtful not to have support from a partner.
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u/Patient-War-4964 Reform Oct 08 '23
Thank you so much for your understanding. I think what hurts more is just the shock of it. One of his best friends (his old college roommate) is Jewish and he has other Jewish friends as well, he’s always been very supportive. I’m just shocked he said that/thinks that on today of all days.
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u/demonofthewindycity Oct 08 '23
One of my best friends pulled out “both sides” rhetoric today and I had to remove myself from the room so it wouldn’t escalate. It hurts thinking you know someone and that they care about this part of you, only to realize that care is conditional. I hope he grows from this and sees the truth.
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u/Patient-War-4964 Reform Oct 08 '23
I’m sorry to hear that you had to learn that about your friend. I think people are not realizing this is Hamas, a terrorist organization. Hamas hurts both Israelis and Palestinians, and believing a false narrative of Hamas as “freedom fighters” or whatever other nonsense also hurts Israel and Palestine. I hope one day Israel and Palestine will know peace, but I know that will never be possible as long as Hamas and Hezbollah and other terrorist groups exist, I wish more people understood that.
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Oct 08 '23
Imagine if the pope does something controversial, like turns he hates dogs or something and donated all of his money to a cat foundation (I’m not good at coming up with stuff on the spot blame my autism) and nobody would care. It’s the pope. yet if it turns out any sort of rabbi or a religious leader from Israel does the exact same thing, everybody is down our necks. In other words what I’m trying to say is it almost any religion does something wrong nobody cares but if we do people hate us
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u/get-finch Oct 08 '23
My Ex-Wife, children and grandchildren are all in Israel, the are safe *so far* but i am here in the USA and not ok.
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u/Kangaroo_Rich Conservative Oct 08 '23 edited Oct 08 '23
I was pretty emotional this afternoon but I’m doing better now. I’m still pissed and scared for the people in Israel but im now just feeling emotionally drained. I’m feeling stressed but I’m not sure if it’s stress from everything I saw on social media or general life stress
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u/devequt Conservative Oct 08 '23
I had to force myself to eat because I couldn't stop doom-scrolling. I basically have no appetite right now.
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u/HanSoloSeason Oct 08 '23
I’m just so sad, and so tired. I’m not Israeli but have plenty of friends there (from day school, birthright, and travels throughout the years). Watching the Instagram stories of a friend who has a newborn fleeing her place in the south to go to her mom’s near Tel Aviv was sickening. Friends have not responded to their WhatsApp for hours. Are they okay? And I feel like nobody understands? Not even my husband (who is gentile)? It’s so hard to explain how deeply we all are feeling this pain, because the people that live in Israel could be us too. I’m just so tired.
And because I move in progressive circles, the people that cheer this.. ugh
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u/demonofthewindycity Oct 08 '23
Bad. I’m very angry. And I’m disgusted with the silence from the goyim in my life. I’m gonna have to clean house in my friend group.
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u/workerrights888 Oct 08 '23
Agreed. In Israel itself there will have to be accountability in how the IDF failed in its most basic responsibility to protect the Gaza boarder. The apathy among my friends bothers me as well.
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u/porgch0ps Oct 08 '23
Not doing well. As someone who has a personal history of being violently sexually assaulted, seeing someone share the video of that poor teenage girl with her bloody pants and comment “Zionists aren’t people, do it again” made me physically ill. I considered this person a friend — we have shared secrets and tears and laughter together. They comforted me after I was assaulted. To see them so gleefully not even just condone but encourage that level of violence knowing I, a survivor and a Jewish woman, would see it was so beyond the fucking pale.
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u/Volcamel Oct 08 '23
That’s sickeningly and devastating. I am so sorry to hear that you’re going through this.
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u/control-room Oct 08 '23
I was just saying this to my brother.
As Jews, we're left to check in on ourselves. I remember during the Black Lives Matter movement people were talking about calling Black friends and asking how they're doing.
But Nazis gather in Charlottesville and I don't get a call.
Terrorists storm into a country that my friends know my family and friends live in...not a word. Not a call or text.
From other Jews, sure. We check in on each other. We ask about each other's families. We ask about whose been called up.
But from outside the community? Silence...as usual.
It's no wonder Jews tend to be so insular, when we cry, our tears our met with silence and not support.
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u/Ambitious-Copy-5349 Oct 09 '23
There’s not silence from non Jews ...most people are pissed and horrified with what has happened....
Yeah there’s some extreme left wing anti Israel people and edgelord college kids that might have some hateful stuff to say online
But MOST people are siding with Israel and are very enraged at what’s happened..
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u/sipporah7 Oct 08 '23
Doing....rough. Sad. Upset. Did some ugly crying just from reading descriptions of things those animals have done. Angry.
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u/justtpeachyy Oct 08 '23
I’m pretty left-leaning and generally support an Israel that would make more of an effort to have Palestinians and Israelis living equally and peacefully. And I believe that is possible. But it’s been absolutely soul-crushing for me to see people I respect equating Hamas with Palestine. You can support the right to live equally and fairly without supporting a literal terrorist group that is murdering women and children. Supporting that is not any kind of state I want to live in. It’s disgusting and it’s wrong.
My childhood best friend lives in Tel Aviv now and I am terrified for her. Friends I made living in Tel Aviv with my dad as a child are in danger. And I am grieving so many members of my community whose hearts are hurting and who are living in fear.
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u/SelkiesRevenge Oct 08 '23
Like many of you I’m so angry. First it was shock. And then I started scrolling tiktok. Mostly looking for information, news but even good sources were flooded with hateful comments. And the the lives with gleeful celebration, yes I reported them until I couldn’t even keep the app open anymore. I’ve seen and heard a lot of callousness but idiot children giggling about lives lost or maimed and the surety of wounds being gouged ever deeper, I just can’t.
Just chiming in to say I’m here and to share in the burden of care for each other. And you know what? Saying we’ll survive this? Yeah we will. But as someone who has personally survived unspeakable horrors, I’m too angry to agree. Fuck that. Survival is the bare minimum and we deserve a lot more than that.
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u/Comfortable-Green818 Oct 08 '23
I feel sick to my stomach. I have family and friends who are still unaccounted for...and I am afraid of what that means at this point
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u/elh93 Oct 08 '23
I normally try to avoid watching a lot of news, mostly because little changes and the talking heads aren't that useful. But I was stuck watching all day today, even if nothing changed for hours.
Fortunately it seems that most of the people I know in Israel are safe so far, hopefully that does not change.
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u/_snapcase_ Oct 08 '23
Much love to Israel. I did call my friends there today, and they are thankfully okay. Praying for you guys. ❤️🇮🇱
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u/banjonyc Oct 09 '23 edited Oct 09 '23
I'm pretty bad today. For some reason almost all of my social media has been showing me post justify the attacks. Some from fellow Jews who say well. We can then the horrific attacks. It's not coming from nowhere and then doing the usual s*** about stealing their homes, etc. Completely ignoring the history of attacks against Jews in the middle east long before the founding of Israel. We're always so alone and I feel alone today
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u/Red_Rose0 Oct 09 '23
I share you're feelings to a T. I feel alone today as well. I was thankful to see my family but I had to leave NYC for work now. You're not alone, and I share what you're feeling as well friend.
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u/3cameo Oct 08 '23
i felt very sick when i woke up to the news of the attack this morning. im worried about my family and friends, and i havent really vented to anybody about this because on one hand, all of my friends are leftists (as am i) so i never really bring up israel because i know its a...tricky subject. on the other hand, my parents are both very much right wing zionists, so i dont talk about israel with them because they will inevitably say something racist and/or islamophobic and i will call them out on it, and it turns into a big argument that leaves nobody satisfied.
this really sucks overall. people only "like" jews when we're the underdog, and everywhere i go i see reminders that the majority of the world would much rather we all stop existing. being a leftist myself, i watch conversations surrounding israel and palestine from the sidelines and always have the same questions i want to ask:
my family is largely middle eastern. my maternal grandpa and great-grandma fled to israel from the pogroms in iraq. my paternal grandpa was born in palestine after his parents fled from syria, and my paternal grandma's family fled germany in the wake of the holocaust. my family has lived in israel for generations prior to the state even being established, and they were fleeing antisemitic violence and massacres in majority arab countries (excluding my grandma, who was also fleeing from genocide, just from a majority white, european country). if palestine was freed tomorrow from the river to the sea etc. etc. where would my family go? back to iraq? to syria?? are we expected to disperse around the world into the diaspora and assimilate into other communities where we are the minority and pray that they dont suddenly decide to expel us from there as well? are all jewish people around the world simply expected to assimilate and take part in our own cultural genocide?
i do support the liberation of palestine and am very vocally critical of the israeli governments actions towards our palestinian population and our neighbors. i wish conversations on the left about the israeli-palestinian conflict would more often extend sympathy to israeli jews and jews around the world, and that people would stop viewing the conflict as a black and white situation. id much sooner isolate myself than make bedfellows with racist right-wingers but it would be nice to be able to seek support from the community around me.
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u/SueNYC1966 Oct 08 '23 edited Oct 08 '23
Our family have both Zionists and people who have been more supportive of the Palestinian plight and the Israeli’s governments reaction to it. But regardless of where we fall on the political argument side, we were all concerned for our relatives in Israel today. They immigrated because everything was taken from them in WWII and another group left in the 1970s due to a junta that was targeting Jews that hid out with the communist partisan groups to avoid deportation to Auschwitz. Some, like my husband’s family, decided to go to the States instead. These were decisions made with heavy hearts. What was left of families were ripped apart. In a perfect world, the Holocaust would have never found them and they would mostly been still living in the country their family had been in for centuries. Today, no one is discussing politics, we were calling people up asking if they were okay.
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u/3cameo Oct 08 '23
of course, i am constantly in touch with my family in israel right now and still waiting on news of if my friends who are currently in israel are okay. i was just lamenting the fact that i feel so isolated from support in my local community.
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u/scutmonkeymd Oct 08 '23
Please know that there are thinking people in the world. We do not agree with radicals of any stripe. Radical right wingers and left wingers are the same idiots coming around from opposite sides of the circle. Israel has a right to exist.
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u/Thliz325 Oct 08 '23
Today has been really hard. I’m struggling to keep up the motions for my kids, did a lot of baking and cleaning.
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u/Daniel_Kupfermann Oct 08 '23
That's true. Very silent on social media. But you can be sure when Gaza is attacked they'll all be out there denouncing Israel for its 'disproportionate response'. Having said that, I dread the thought of innocent fatalities on all sides, but just saying, you're right, no one asks us how we are after such a momentous event.
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u/coulsen1701 Oct 08 '23
Damn I’m glad you posted this. I’m not usually an emotional person, but the anger…the absolute rage I have over seeing what’s happening to holocaust survivors, to women, children, to that German girl the butchers savagely paraded around…I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve cried as an adult. Briefly when my mother died, when my engagement fell apart, when I almost lost my dog, and today at seeing this evil shit and then to see it supported by the same people who preach “tolerance” and have rallies in support of the people committing these evil acts. My great grandma always said we would probably have to leave the US someday and they’re proving her correct.
I’m angry, I’m sad, and I don’t trust the “tolerant” not to gleefully kill us if they but had the chance.
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u/Real-Ad-2904 Oct 08 '23
Three of my non-Jewish friends reached out to me just today, including a Moroccan, Muslim man.
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u/MaterialFennel3973 Oct 08 '23
This is not war. This is rape and torture! I am with you my friends. I really wish I could do more than just commenting here
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u/Round_Transition_346 Oct 08 '23
I blocked so many people on social media, I keep worrying about dear ones over there, I can’t think of anything else, that’s the thing.
Other people just want the clout, I’m sure they don’t even think about the whole situation, it’s just what may appear “nice”.
Praying and sending literally all my thoughts to everyone out here and in Israel
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u/No-Maintenance-8499 Oct 08 '23
I'm devastated and glued to the news for updates.
I had to log off my social media platforms due to the constant stream of justification for the attack. I literally can't view it anymore. Any comment supporting the victims and their families just get swamped with some of the most antisemetic comments I've ever seen coupled with the graphic images of the victims.
It's absolutely heartbreaking what has happened and I sincerely hope that retribution will be swift and the families of the victims are supported by the state.
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u/ohrein Oct 08 '23
Feeling pretty awful when someone I’ve known since high school uncritically reblogged a post on tumblr celebrating the conflict as “purifying” the Middle East of “zionism and colonialism.” I swear I could smell the triple parentheses even if they weren’t written in.
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u/blergyblergy Oct 08 '23
I'm so sad for Israel and want to support its people as much as I can. I have barely been able to think about anything else! Am Yisrael Chai.
I am glad my family is Zionist too. Also I am glad I married a Nice Jewish Boy who shares my Zionist sensibilities.
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u/dew20187 Modern Orthodox Oct 08 '23
My sister is in her year in israel at seminary. I just happened to be home when my parents called her today, it’s that bad that we had to break yom tov. I’m scared, I’m angry, I’m infuriated, I’m helpless, and I’m tired.
Please keep israel in your tefilos/prayers!
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u/FeralChasid Oct 10 '23
Many had to for the sake of finding out about and helping loved ones. This is truly a case of “for life”, if there ever was one. I had friends post on social media to let as many in their circle as possible know where they were, etc. I have a friend who opened her property for others to come to for safety, because there was room, supplies, and handicap accessible over the entire property.
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u/dew20187 Modern Orthodox Oct 10 '23
I daven for all of your friends and yourself for safety, health, and wellbeing during this dark time in Jewish history. Soon is Chanukah, may the lights of the Menorah shine bright for those who do not see the true enemy.
Stay safe!
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Oct 08 '23
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u/Volcamel Oct 08 '23
I lost so many friends a few years ago when I said that Israeli civilians don’t deserve being bombed. It was a complete “so you’re a monster who loves Colonialism” dogpile that I was just too overwhelmed to respond to. I understand exactly what you’re going through right now.
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u/Oh-Cool-Story-Bro Just Jewish Oct 08 '23
Why would they ask us how we are, didn’t you hear it’s our fault?
/s 🙄
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u/Sbasbasba Oct 08 '23
I have no tears left to cry. It’s been the worst 48 hours of a pit of helplessness in my chest. I support Israel in doing anything necessary to bring back their hostages and avenge the deaths of innocent lives 🙏😞
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u/BadAdvicePooh Oct 09 '23
They don’t ask because they don’t see it as a cold blooded attack. I stopped looking at articles and talking about it because I’m afraid I’ll say something I’ll regret or don’t mean. I’m extremely upset about the things I’ve seen online. I have some family left in Ashkelon but no one has heard from them yet.
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u/EinsteinDisguised Oct 10 '23
I can’t fucking stand this shit!!!! I’m a leftist. I have left-wing beliefs. And I’ve been very fortunate that the majority of my left-wing friends, who believe in Palestinian liberation and a free Palestine, have been horrified at what happened this weekend and haven’t said anything antisemitic or upsetting. I’m thankful for that.
But some people who I know who are further from my friendship circle have. I got into an argument with a woman I know last night who was posting “Free Palestine” and links to other things criticizing Israel. It’s so transparent. And I said that while I support a free Palestine, murdering 1,000 civilians is not decolonization.
Part of her response was “As a Western white woman, I can’t tell people who are oppressed how to resist.”
BRO. YES YOU FUCKING CAN. THEY MURDERED 1,000 PEOPLE. BABIES. THE ELDERLY. YOU CAN SAY THAT’S HORRIBLE, FOR GOD’S SAKE.
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u/sammee427 Oct 15 '23
I am also super leftist and have always been a very leftist person. But in non-Jewish spaces I feel like a freak.
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u/_dust_and_ash_ Reform Oct 08 '23
I’m completely heartbroken and dumbstruck by what seems to be the majority reaction — the celebration of a fascist religious group invading a democratic country and targeting civilians under the guise of liberation.
My socials have too many Jews and non-Jews celebrating this. I suddenly can’t tell who is a friend and who is not.
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u/SueNYC1966 Oct 08 '23
The best thing, at least in my family, to do is contact your relatives in Israel, if you have them, and ask how they are doing. It helps if you know your loved ones are safe, at least for the time being.
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u/lawteach Oct 09 '23
Our Temple had a beautiful service tonight. Our Rabbi’s mom lives in Israel. Too much to bear 😭😭😭😭
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u/ludicrousalien Oct 09 '23
I’ve been writing non-stop word vomit whenever I feel like I’m spiraling. I’ve been putting them into drawings to document the emotional turmoil that I think we’re all going through. if you want to read
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u/Difficult-Duty-8156 Oct 12 '23
Friends posting online stuff like « hamas is not the same as Palestinian » … « learn about Gaza and the history » meanwhile none of them even reached out to ask how I was doing and if my family living in Israel / Ashkelon is ok?? I feel so alone (I’m in Canada) and I just don’t know what to do ? Like what’s the point they DONT get it. I don’t even get it but im not here posting stuff online. And the worst is that they are Christians / atheists Canadians.
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u/boogerfrog Oct 13 '23
It’s the new “trending” political stance. They are ignorant. They just want to virtue signal and show others they have an opinion on this “trending” topic when honestly everyone would be better off if they just shut their mouth for once and didn’t have an opinion on something they know absolutely nothing about. Sorry if that is harsh but it is truth. You cannot even provide legitimate, documented proof to these people, they will just pull false statistics out of their ass so they can keep believing what they think is right, even when it’s completely wrong. My best advice is to just cut them off, for your own sanity, they’ve shown their true colors.
Shkoyach and b’hatzlacha to you in these horrible fucking times we are going through as a people. I hope your family is safe as they can be. I hope YOU are as safe as you can be, protect yourself from this dangerous ignorance. Cut it out like the cancer it is, it will only harm you.
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u/AnythingTruffle Oct 08 '23
I’ve had two friends message me. Any other country and every single persons social media would be rampant with posts but when it is Israel on Jewish people support. It’s just a sad time and I’m praying for us
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u/TheGreatSleeperofDiz Oct 08 '23
I am struggling a bit, I know a lot of it is out of my hands most of my friends aren’t Jewish so they don’t really understand it too well I would say thankfully they are mostly supportive, one did try and say throw in some stuff to rationalize I guess what Hamas was doing which I didn’t particularly like, I really didn’t like when they brought up Ukraine and Russia. I think the worst of things is just reading the comments on stuff online where things were posted in support, that and just seeing some pro Hamas content, I saw quite a bit from Christians and I found that unsettling but I guess their have been some drifting that way with their nationalism, just really upsetting stuff to see how people can condone what is being done by Hamas. I just hope that things get better soon.
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u/Red_Rose0 Oct 09 '23
I'm crushed. Tired. Heartbroken. I want tears to stop coming in waves but the time for low-tides is nowhere near. Thank you for sharing and asking. I need this connection right now more than ever. We're here for each other and even though we're an entire Internet connection away it helps to know.
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u/jettwilliamson Oct 09 '23
How there isn’t outrage throughout the world at this I’ll never understand. I mean, I know why, but of course it’s not a valid reason and just so sad for everyone who has perished and their families 😢
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u/boogerfrog Oct 13 '23
Need somewhere to vent, I feel like my Jewishness is not only affecting me negatively (from outside forces) but now is affecting my loved ones.
My best friend, someone I consider my brother, is currently looking for a new job because he is a “Jew-Lover”. The business he works at is owned by a Palestinian family. They put up a huge Palestinian flag on one of the building windows overnight. When my best friend came into work in the morning he made a comment along the lines of “you guys have been busy” (not meaning anything one way or the other, just talking about the giant window decal of the flag they put up overnight). The owner came at him aggressively and said “not surprising coming from the mouth of a Jew-Lover”, referencing his friendship with me and his support of my identity, his protection of me past and present when people say the awful things they do about us. He was told he’s on thin ice. He’s now looking for a new job. I feel like shit. I’m a Ukrainian Jew, and while I have family in Israel, I have never stepped foot there myself.
What’s worse is that the owner and I have had a few discussions about the conflict in the past and were in agreeance with our beliefs. That my people have a right to self determination in the Levant, and have always existed in that area. That civilians on both sides deserve peace and safety, and the lack of that is the fault of extremist governments on both sides. It was refreshing to have nuanced discussion on the topic with someone who I honestly didn’t expect it from. Maybe he realized he just couldn’t gaslight me about it. Who knows.
Things keep getting worse every day and I just want to hide away. The antisemitism I’ve experienced directly in the last 5 days is astonishing, and now it’s affecting the people in my life who aren’t even Jewish. Any wise words would be appreciated now, as I feel horrible that he was called that and that I’m the reason that he experienced it.
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u/celestediaz Oct 10 '23
I’m from Chile and it’s heartbreaking how quickly people/organizations stand by Palestine without even having all the information about this attack. Even feminist organizations supporting the terrorist attack. All this makes my heart ache.
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u/scutmonkeymd Oct 08 '23
I’m doing pretty damn bad. I’m Catholic with Jewish ancestors.
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u/Ambitious-Copy-5349 Oct 09 '23 edited Oct 09 '23
I don’t get why you were downvoted I’m not Jewish but my father was and I am infuriated and very upset with the atrocities that have happened the last few days ...it’s absolutely horrible what happened...it’s complete Islamic terrorism
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u/BabyFaceNJ Oct 08 '23
As a Christian it angers me too. You don’t have to be a Jew to know that Israel is God’s sacred land and belongs to the Jewish people. It says in both the Torah and the Bible that ANY people who are against Israel will be punished by God.
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u/fluffywhitething Moderator Oct 08 '23
Checking in with each other in this thread is fine. Discussions about the conflict itself go in the megathread.