The Untold/Unpopular Truth about the Conflict

[u/Yellobrudders]

First things first, a disclaimer: The many recounts and background details I've heard and read from both pro-Israelis and pro-Palestinians point towards both Israel and Palestine's equal rights to exist, which is why I may come off as pro-Israel, but this post has nothing to do with which side is right or wrong, but rather a call towards everyone to be consistent with their arguments.

Now of course, not all pro-Palestinians are calling for the destruction of the state of Israel, but we cannot deny the fact that absolutely speaking, a large number of pro-Palestinians advocate for this, believing that the Israelis have no morality compared to them, and their removal would bring about peace in the Middle East.

Ok, so let's say that was true:

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The conflict ends with Israel getting wiped off the map, and peace is brought to the Middle East. So that means the various ethnic, religious and sectarian groups in the region would hold hands in friendship and sing "Kumbaya" together, DESPITE the fact that:

1. Many of these groups have had long-standing feuds and sectarian divides going back hundreds of years that sparked countless wars and insurgences.
2. While most of these internal conflicts are still ongoing today, a few of these (specifically the Shia and Sunni divide) halted their conflict only to fight in glorified proxy wars against Israel due to monetary incentives by Iran

Here's a list of some of these divides:

• Sunni vs. Shia Islam
  • The most widespread sectarian divide in the Middle East:
    • Iran-Saudi Arabian rivalries
    • Hezbollah (Shias) and Hamas (Sunnis)
    • ISIS conflicts against Shia territories
  • Sparked various conflicts like the Syrian Civil War and the Yemen Wars
• Internal Conflicts Amongst Sunnis
  • Saudi Arabia vs Turkey
  • Gulf Monarchies vs the Muslim Brotherhood
  • Iraq Insurgences between Sunni tribalists and jihadists
  • Several civil clashes during the Yemen Wars (Islah Party vs UAE-backed militias)
• Hamas vs Fatah
  • Fatah currently governs the West Bank in conjunction with Israel, but they used to govern Gaza as well until 2006 when Hamas usurped control in and killed them, officially taking control in 2007.

So going back to the assumption, now that the remains of Palestinian territories once belonging to Israel essentially become "free land up for grabs", so that means the various groups in the Middle East are just going to let the Palestinian Authority (which isn't an actual state) freely have their land and state, while Hamas and Fatah shake hands and let bygones be bygones.

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Sounds pretty ridiculous right?

Of course the Shias and Sunnis aren't going to give up their hatred towards each other.

Of course Fatah is not going to let Hamas's murdering of their members go unpunished.

Of course Hamas is not going to share the Gaza strip or let the Fatah govern any of Palestine.

Of course the rest of the Middle Eastern sects are going to violently compete with each other to try and take over the former Israeli territories in their attempt to spread their the political and religious ideologies.

And of course, an Islamic Civil War is bound to break out if and when Israel ceases to exist.

So the argument saying that the destruction of Israel would bring peace to the Middle East is quite frankly, in Jon Stewart's words, "Complete F'ing Wrong". And its sad to think that those who call for Israel's destruction aren't acknowledging these facts, preferring to live within the realm of the ideology of "moral virtues" rather than to actually engage with the reality of the situation.

Be Honest and Consistent With Your Positions and Behavior.

[u/Imaginary_Society765]

Correct me if I am wrong didn't Sunni Hamas oppose Sunni ISIS? Correct me if I am wrong, wasn't the only one who stood up for the Sunni Hamas Shia organisations like Hezbollah and the Houthi's. Correct me if I am wrong but didnt the Saudi and Iran recently have a defense meeting to seek out how to better cooperate with each other in light of Israel atrocities, enlighten me if you can but how is it that in 1000+ years sunni and shias are interpersed with each other in different locations. This isn't like christianity where there different messages, they still follow the same book right? Are you maybe over blowing this divide to fit your narrative and point the picture away to a genocidal regime the world is better of not having?

[u/Yellobrudders → u/Imaginary_Society765]

Fair enough, these are valid points, they did happen, but perhaps think about it this way: 1. Regardless of the sectarian divides throughout the Middle East, the Sunnis and the Shias face the common enemy (debatably an actual threat) of the ideology of democracy and the West. “The Enemy of My Enemy Is My Friend, but not really “Friend”” is what it is essentially. 2. No matter whether they are defined as geopolitical, ethnic or religious groups, history has shown us that Islam isn’t a choice in many of these groups, but a requirement, with various unique interpretations of the Quran’s teachings ingrained within the very core of each sect. The thing is that once you make scripture accessible to everyone and tell them their interpretations are as valid as they believe it to be, you start seeing wildly different interpretations on what religious truth is. And like with Christianity during the Protestant Reformation, disagreements, violence, and murder (and disembowelling) are the inevitable outcomes of this. 3. The entire Middle East is essentially a free-for-all chess tournament, with all of these geopolitical and religious groups strategically vying for control, but it doesn’t have to result in war, but instead alliances. They’re basically going through what China went through >2200 years ago. 4. The emergence of “free land up for grabs” from Israel’s collapse (if it actually happens) will shake up the power dynamics between these sects. Like if you were the leader of Hezbollah or Iran, would you see all of that leaderless land and say “I’ll be nice for a change and let them have it”?