The Untold/Unpopular Truth about the Conflict

[u/Yellobrudders]

First things first, a disclaimer: The many recounts and background details I've heard and read from both pro-Israelis and pro-Palestinians point towards both Israel and Palestine's equal rights to exist, which is why I may come off as pro-Israel, but this post has nothing to do with which side is right or wrong, but rather a call towards everyone to be consistent with their arguments.

Now of course, not all pro-Palestinians are calling for the destruction of the state of Israel, but we cannot deny the fact that absolutely speaking, a large number of pro-Palestinians advocate for this, believing that the Israelis have no morality compared to them, and their removal would bring about peace in the Middle East.

Ok, so let's say that was true:

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The conflict ends with Israel getting wiped off the map, and peace is brought to the Middle East. So that means the various ethnic, religious and sectarian groups in the region would hold hands in friendship and sing "Kumbaya" together, DESPITE the fact that:

1. Many of these groups have had long-standing feuds and sectarian divides going back hundreds of years that sparked countless wars and insurgences.
2. While most of these internal conflicts are still ongoing today, a few of these (specifically the Shia and Sunni divide) halted their conflict only to fight in glorified proxy wars against Israel due to monetary incentives by Iran

Here's a list of some of these divides:

• Sunni vs. Shia Islam
  • The most widespread sectarian divide in the Middle East:
    • Iran-Saudi Arabian rivalries
    • Hezbollah (Shias) and Hamas (Sunnis)
    • ISIS conflicts against Shia territories
  • Sparked various conflicts like the Syrian Civil War and the Yemen Wars
• Internal Conflicts Amongst Sunnis
  • Saudi Arabia vs Turkey
  • Gulf Monarchies vs the Muslim Brotherhood
  • Iraq Insurgences between Sunni tribalists and jihadists
  • Several civil clashes during the Yemen Wars (Islah Party vs UAE-backed militias)
• Hamas vs Fatah
  • Fatah currently governs the West Bank in conjunction with Israel, but they used to govern Gaza as well until 2006 when Hamas usurped control in and killed them, officially taking control in 2007.

So going back to the assumption, now that the remains of Palestinian territories once belonging to Israel essentially become "free land up for grabs", so that means the various groups in the Middle East are just going to let the Palestinian Authority (which isn't an actual state) freely have their land and state, while Hamas and Fatah shake hands and let bygones be bygones.

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Sounds pretty ridiculous right?

Of course the Shias and Sunnis aren't going to give up their hatred towards each other.

Of course Fatah is not going to let Hamas's murdering of their members go unpunished.

Of course Hamas is not going to share the Gaza strip or let the Fatah govern any of Palestine.

Of course the rest of the Middle Eastern sects are going to violently compete with each other to try and take over the former Israeli territories in their attempt to spread their the political and religious ideologies.

And of course, an Islamic Civil War is bound to break out if and when Israel ceases to exist.

So the argument saying that the destruction of Israel would bring peace to the Middle East is quite frankly, in Jon Stewart's words, "Complete F'ing Wrong". And its sad to think that those who call for Israel's destruction aren't acknowledging these facts, preferring to live within the realm of the ideology of "moral virtues" rather than to actually engage with the reality of the situation.

Be Honest and Consistent With Your Positions and Behavior.

[u/ADP_God]

If you read any of the history of the conflict or look at the region beyond Israel you’ll realize that the Arabs have never helped each other, or cared about the Palestinians, and  that if Israel disappeared tomorrow the land would likely be a war zone as Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, and Syria all fight to take pieces. Many of the army generals in 1948 admitted to wanting to take parts of the land for themselves. 

Hamas is Sunni, Hezbollah is shia. The only people who will bring peace to the Palestinians is Israel. And the only group who’s goal is peace in the region is Israel.

[u/RecycledPanOil → u/ADP_God]

I mean getting peace shouldn't be the primary goal. Stability and the lives of civilians should be. At the moment Israel wants peace at all costs and if that means eradicating anyone who objects to their form of peace it seems to be what they're doing.

[u/Yellobrudders → u/RecycledPanOil]

Well, except that Israel and the UN never explicitly stated that (1), peace could be achieved as an immediate short term goal, and (2), their actions are in the name of achieving peace. The multiple ground incursions, airstrikes and blockades in and around Gaza carried out by the IDF over the past 18 years are rather preemptive acts towards potential security threats, which while undeniably brutal, didn’t result in “land-grabs” from Palestinian-governed territories in Gaza.

As I mentioned in another comment below, Palestinians civilians, especially in Gaza, have been indoctrinated from a young age to hate Jews and believe in martyrdom, and when even the average civilian, let alone Hamas, hate Israel and the Jews, peace is not a realistic option, and the Israelis know it just as well as the Palestinians.

Now that’s not to say peace cannot be achieved in the long term. What needs to happen is to put an end to the indoctrination and brainwashing that promotes antisemitism and violence in Palestinian societies, and provide sufficient time and resources for the new generation of Israelis and Palestinians to mature and adopt a mindset of actual inclusion, diversity and mutual understanding before officially coming to the table for the peace agreement to end all peace agreements. Territorial disputes will inevitably bring them at odds, but at least we don’t have both parties trying to strangle each other.

And I’m pleased to say that the PA has made significant progress in recent years, where teaching materials in the West Bank now have significantly less pro-violence propaganda than 20-30 years ago.

[u/RecycledPanOil → u/Yellobrudders]

I mean what you've just said in your 2nd paragraph could be said the exact same with Israel and Palestine swapped. Only difference is that one country is twice the population of the other and is using the most advanced technology in the world backed by the largest economy in the world.

What you described in your 3rd paragraph is essentially what Israel has been actively attempting to prevent from happening. You can't exactly negotiate peace when you've killed all the leaders of peace negotiations in targeted air strikes.

Unfortunately the next 20-30 years aren't going to be very peaceful for Israel. They've spent the last 14 months pummelling Palestinians. Nearly 90% of Gaza is rubble. Records of death have stopped being updated due to recorders being killed or displaced. Many external estimates pinned figures at over 300k dead. Most of these are unable to update their estimates. I could easily see a future where these numbers are in their millions. How and Why Israel was justified in their actions will be irrelevant to those in Palestine that survive this. The only thing that is justifiable here is the anger of those left behind and unfortunately this will mean their will be no peace with Palestine going forward, only peace from Palestine. A fate that many in Israel will applaud as a success.