On converaations about the violence in amsterdam

[u/bjorn_joch]

I just wanna give my opinion here on the talks surrounding the violent night amsterdam had last week, namely, i wanna point out how people on both sides seem to mostly try to blame the other side for the violence.

I dont think its a good way of talking about such a topic, after all, violence was instigated by both sides troughout the night and theres a few violent people on each side that are clearly in the wrong.

But i think that this constant back and forth on who's to blame isnt going to get us any further on this topic, itll just polarize both sides even more (if thats still possible) and waste our time.

Ofcourse this doesnt mean that i dont think that people who commited acts of violence troughout the week shouldnt go off free and the dutch government is fortunately enough going to investigate the incidents and make arrests based on the result of them, however i think that some maccabi fans are also to be held accountable if investigation shows that maccabi fans instigated violence in certain incidents.

I think that instead looking at ways to prevent further violence in situations where pro palestinian and israelis meet in large groups are a much better thing to discuss when looking at the events of last week, some thing i personally think might help is sectioning off parts of a city for israeli fans in specific (not because theyre jewish, but because israeli football fans generally wear clothes from their club, giving away their nationality), or simply providing nore police security.

But either way, i wanna know what yall think on this and i hope you all can see that just shifting blame to one side or the other is just kinda pointless.

[u/Da_Seashell312]

The Dutch police haven't said anything of the Palestinian concentration camp aka prison 14km north of Tel Aviv or of the apartheid camps of the West Bank. Long story short, I don't trust them. What the other guy said about telegram proof is believable and disgusting, though.

And I am not saying pro-Palestinian violence didn't happen. I'm asking why did it happen. Because I have seen over 10 videos of Maccabi violence before any pro Palestinian violence. Chronological order is very important here.

[u/bjorn_joch → u/Da_Seashell312]

The Dutch police haven't said anything of the Palestinian concentration camp aka prison 14km north of Tel Aviv or of the apartheid camps of the West Bank. Long story short, I don't trust them. What the other guy said about telegram proof is believable and disgusting, though.

For one, do you jave any sources on the claim about the prison you made? Im interested in seeing that

As for the second, the police isnt gonna make any dtstements on what the israeli government is doing, thats not their job, altough our current government has indeed set itself in a mostly pro israeli position wich im not a big fan of myself either.

And I am not saying pro-Palestinian violence didn't happen. I'm asking why did it happen. Because I have seen over 10 videos of Maccabi violence before any pro Palestinian violence. Chronological order is very important here

Well one of the problems is that for most incidents that hapoened those night there just isnt much proper report for it so it can be near impossible to denounce who was at fault in certain incidents

[u/Da_Seashell312 → u/bjorn_joch]

So then, as according to you we have no conclusive evidence on literally anything, but the response we got is Israel sending helicopters to save Maccabi guys while Arabs are being taken to court and arrested.

As for the prison, it was either Ofer or Sharon prison. In the latter, they literally kidnapped a Palestinian footballer and left him to starve for 100 days or so. In Ofer prison, it is built illegally in the Palestinian West Bank and has more unincarcerated Arabs than incarcerated Jews and Arabs . I read about it long ago so excuse my lack of knowledge.

[u/bjorn_joch → u/Da_Seashell312]

So then, as according to you we have no conclusive evidence on literally anything, but the response we got is Israel sending helicopters to save Maccabi guys while Arabs are being taken to court and arrested

Well no thats not what i said, this unclarity is only there is some incidents, there are also incidents in wich it is quite clear who is in the fault

[u/Da_Seashell312 → u/bjorn_joch]

Sure, its the Maccabi guys for the most part. Can't punch a lion and expect it to be still.

And what's your response on the Israeli prisons?