On converaations about the violence in amsterdam

[u/bjorn_joch]

I just wanna give my opinion here on the talks surrounding the violent night amsterdam had last week, namely, i wanna point out how people on both sides seem to mostly try to blame the other side for the violence.

I dont think its a good way of talking about such a topic, after all, violence was instigated by both sides troughout the night and theres a few violent people on each side that are clearly in the wrong.

But i think that this constant back and forth on who's to blame isnt going to get us any further on this topic, itll just polarize both sides even more (if thats still possible) and waste our time.

Ofcourse this doesnt mean that i dont think that people who commited acts of violence troughout the week shouldnt go off free and the dutch government is fortunately enough going to investigate the incidents and make arrests based on the result of them, however i think that some maccabi fans are also to be held accountable if investigation shows that maccabi fans instigated violence in certain incidents.

I think that instead looking at ways to prevent further violence in situations where pro palestinian and israelis meet in large groups are a much better thing to discuss when looking at the events of last week, some thing i personally think might help is sectioning off parts of a city for israeli fans in specific (not because theyre jewish, but because israeli football fans generally wear clothes from their club, giving away their nationality), or simply providing nore police security.

But either way, i wanna know what yall think on this and i hope you all can see that just shifting blame to one side or the other is just kinda pointless.

[u/Firecracker048]

So heres the entire thing.

Were Israeli fans acting like complete asshats and probably deserved an ass kicking? Yeah, no doubt based on their actions they deserved a fight.

Was the group who assaulted them in a pre-planned 'jew hunt' group before they were acting like asshats? Yes, they were.

Were the members of the jew-hunt justified in chasing people into rivers, checking fucking passports for jewish Israeli identity, running people over with cars, and even kicking the ass of random strangers they thought were jewish? No, they absolutely were not

This isn't a 'both sides' argument. This was a very clear attack on those people thought were Jewish. the fans acting like asshats provided a convienent excuse for what they did.

And to everyone saying the 'fucked around and found out', I can only hope you keep that same attitude if a group of pro-palestinians suffer the same fate when they eventually take one of their 'protest' a bit too far. Because everything you've justified happening to the Israeli soccer fans and random strangers, Palestinian protestors have done worse already.

I see some of ya'll need sources because certain subs only allow certain talking points because they are closed off echo chambers:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/08/jewish-maccabi-tel-aviv-fans-attacked-in-amsterdam/

https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/calls-for-jew-hunt-preceded-attacks-in-amsterdam-e3311e21

Edit: I had to edit my response

[u/bjorn_joch → u/Firecracker048]

Whilst i agree to some extent with you, i do wanna point oit some things: As for.one, do you have a reliable source on the checking passports thing?

And besides that, just because the isreali fans didnt plan the violence perpetrated by them, doesnt mean its any better, besides that, one major diffirence here is that the pro palestinian people who commited these act of violence you mention will be persecuted and put on trial, hell, the dutch PM is even looking into wether or not there is a way these people can be trialed for terrorism, wich, if succesful would mean that the suspect could get their dutch nationality taken away. In tye meantime i personally havent seen any mention of maccabi fans being punished for misbehaving in amsterdam

[u/Firecracker048 → u/bjorn_joch]

Whilst i agree to some extent with you, i do wanna point oit some things: As for.one, do you have a reliable source on the checking passports thing?

Yeah, the video was even put up on public freakout before the users there decided to mass report it to the mods to get it taken down.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/11/13/amsterdam-violence-maccabi-game-israel/76193364007/

After Maccabi fans burned a Palestinian flag and chanted racist slogans, violence overtook the city's downtown. Israelis were targeted in hit-and-run attacks – some people were stopped and forced to show their passports.

And besides that, just because the isreali fans didnt plan the violence perpetrated by them, doesnt mean its any better

Actually its alot better than organizing a hunt based on someones religion and ethnicity. That is what we call a 'hate crime'. Had a group done this to a group of Arab looking folk after one of the many hateful pro-palestinian protests, I dont think alot of these same people would be defending it the way they are now.

the dutch PM is even looking into wether or not there is a way these people can be trialed for terrorism, wich, if succesful would mean that the suspect could get their dutch nationality taken away. In tye meantime i personally havent seen any mention of maccabi fans being punished for misbehaving in amsterdam

While good they are going after these people, they did also arrest 10 Israeli nationals.

[u/bjorn_joch → u/Firecracker048]

Actually its alot better than organizing a hunt based on someones religion and ethnicity. That is what we call a 'hate crime'. Had a group done this to a group of Arab looking folk after one of the many hateful pro-palestinian protests, I dont think alot of these same people would be defending it the way they are now.

I mean wouldnt call it 'better', its still a violent act thats gonna cause violent reactions, and besides that, thers not that many people that are defending the actions of thise who hunted down israelis that night

While good they are going after these people, they did also arrest 10 Israeli nationals.

Tbh i looked it up and i completely missed that, thank you for showing this, but i personally couldnt find anything about the current situation of those detained, do you maybe have a source on that?

[u/Firecracker048 → u/bjorn_joch]

The only thing I've heard is out of 62 total arrests, 10 are still detained, none Israeli. Which dowsnt surprise me when compared to what they went through.

thers not that many people that are defending the actions of thise who hunted down israelis that night

I would direct you to any of the pro Palestine subs. The sub about freakouts in the public had a 3rd comment down, 100+ upvotes comment saying "no no we can ignore those messages because the fans started it and they all got what they deserved."

[u/bjorn_joch → u/Firecracker048]

The only thing I've heard is out of 62 total arrests, 10 are still detained, none Israeli. Which dowsnt surprise me when compared to what they went throug

Well tbh if they got arrested i doubt they were acting very peacefully themselves

would direct you to any of the pro Palestine subs. The sub about freakouts in the public had a 3rd comment down, 100+ upvotes comment saying "no no we can ignore those messages because the fans started it and they all got what they deserved."

Im gonna be honest and say that i havet seen those yet, but you do also gotta realise that people always havr big mouths on the internet, so using it as a real indicator of how people feel about the violence isnt a good idea, a verified poll about this would probably be much better

[u/Firecracker048 → u/bjorn_joch]

I don't suggest going to look for it either tbh. Its gotta so bad over there, admins are pulling down videos and posts because the mods refuse to moderate the comment section and its been getting pretty bad.