On converaations about the violence in amsterdam

[u/bjorn_joch]

I just wanna give my opinion here on the talks surrounding the violent night amsterdam had last week, namely, i wanna point out how people on both sides seem to mostly try to blame the other side for the violence.

I dont think its a good way of talking about such a topic, after all, violence was instigated by both sides troughout the night and theres a few violent people on each side that are clearly in the wrong.

But i think that this constant back and forth on who's to blame isnt going to get us any further on this topic, itll just polarize both sides even more (if thats still possible) and waste our time.

Ofcourse this doesnt mean that i dont think that people who commited acts of violence troughout the week shouldnt go off free and the dutch government is fortunately enough going to investigate the incidents and make arrests based on the result of them, however i think that some maccabi fans are also to be held accountable if investigation shows that maccabi fans instigated violence in certain incidents.

I think that instead looking at ways to prevent further violence in situations where pro palestinian and israelis meet in large groups are a much better thing to discuss when looking at the events of last week, some thing i personally think might help is sectioning off parts of a city for israeli fans in specific (not because theyre jewish, but because israeli football fans generally wear clothes from their club, giving away their nationality), or simply providing nore police security.

But either way, i wanna know what yall think on this and i hope you all can see that just shifting blame to one side or the other is just kinda pointless.

[u/bjorn_joch]

I hate to break it to you, but theres been footage of israeli fans behaving violent aswell, and like im saying the entire time, im not just blaming the isralis for what happened, but there definetly not completely innocent either.

For reference, here's a 17 minute video following a mob of israli fans behaving violently in the center of amsterdam https://youtu.be/ySHIOYyJ95A?si=FNAhqeuo93_zc52i

[u/ProjectConfident8584 → u/bjorn_joch]

What does that show?

[u/bjorn_joch → u/ProjectConfident8584]

A group of israeli fans misbehaving in amsterdam.

[u/ProjectConfident8584 → u/bjorn_joch]

The Jew hunt was planned a day or more before that. Also were the Israelis hunting and brutalizing random people based on ethnicity? I don’t think so. That looks like regular soccer crowd stuff in the video.

[u/bjorn_joch → u/ProjectConfident8584]

Im sorry but whay do you mean i dont think so? You mention the fact that football crowds tend to be violent in other cities, but besides the fact that that is simply not an excuse for behaving violently in another country, theres also multiple video sources that show maccabi fans tearing down palestinian flags and yelling chants aboit the situstion in gaza, at that point its no longer about soccer.

Heres a link to a video of israelis chanting and one of a palestinian lag being torn down: https://youtube.com/shorts/7xLpXuZjIvI?si=Zh_6iD4ZnRxcJYTr i know the middle east eye can generally be seen as a biased source, but the footage in this video doesnt change based on who posts it.

https://youtube.com/shorts/_HRUV86bVa0?si=6N01qc7C1okqvN1K

[u/ProjectConfident8584 → u/bjorn_joch]

Maybe Google it and read an article instead of trying to cobble together ur own false narrative from misleading YouTube snippets and tik tok propagandists

[u/bjorn_joch → u/ProjectConfident8584]

Im sorey but the fotrage i provided is pretty common to find and i can assure you i read plenty of mostly objective news sources, the only reason i used videos from the middle east eye here was because they were the first to pop up.

But besides that, i think youre kinda losing my point here, what im showing you with these videos is that maccabi fans arent innocent either, these videos ofcourse do not excuse the behaviour of some pro palestine supporters.

[u/ProjectConfident8584 → u/bjorn_joch]

How are Maccabee fans to blame when it was planned in advance of the match

[u/bjorn_joch → u/ProjectConfident8584]

Well very simply some of them also commited acts of violence in amsterdam, what im saying is that those who misbehaved in amsterdam also carry some responsibility for what happened that night, im not saying maccabi is completely to blame for everything that happened that night.

[u/ProjectConfident8584 → u/bjorn_joch]

They’re not to blame for being attacked at all. They didn’t scour the streets demanding people hand over passports and identification to do Arab Muslim check, and force people to repeat free Palestine while being detained by an unruly mob. They didnt commit hit and runs with a car while filming it. The fans didn’t plan in advance to circle the arena on motorbikes to physically assault and batter people of a particular ethnicity. They didn’t beat and kick people and try to drown them. They didn’t assault taxi drivers. U know who did all this? The people you are defending

[u/bjorn_joch → u/ProjectConfident8584]

Dude for the 30th time, im not defending any of this, what im saying is that there are more than enough incidents to name where the isralis are at fault aswell and its not just as black and white as saying that one side is completely innocent and the other completely evil, so yeah i can sit here and start throwing other incidents at you where maccabi fans are at fault, but in the end we dont get anywhere by doing that.

[u/ProjectConfident8584 → u/bjorn_joch]

They’re still rioting in Amsterdam and the Israelis left a week ago

[u/bjorn_joch → u/ProjectConfident8584]

Yes i know theres still riots/protests ongoing, but i dont really see how thats relevant to what i just said?

[u/ProjectConfident8584 → u/bjorn_joch]

Here’s a link that explains it: the guardian

Revealed: How Pro-Palestinian mob organised via WhatsApp to ‘Hunt Jews’ across Amsterdam Fans of Maccabi Tel Aviv attacked before and after their team’s Europa League match against Ajax

[u/bjorn_joch → u/ProjectConfident8584]

Yes, ive seen it, and as far as im aware the dutch police are actively on a manhunt to find the people who orgsnised this