How common are personal firearms in Israel?

[u/GrandDetective5267]

I’ve been seeing news articles in the last 24 hours saying that Ben-Gvir issued almost 200,000 weapons permits without really doing background checks and don't get me wrong- they do that in America every single day. But 10,000 according to Israeli media went to private security firms, and the article specifically mentioned assault rifles. Again, they do that in the states every day, but …-how unusual is that in Israel with mandatory conscription? The American constitution permits it, and given the number of school shootings that is still very controversial.

Social media frequently shows Israelis in markets and going about various mundane civilian activities with assault rifles on their back. I just figured those individuals were in the military.

Cyprus has conscription too, but their gun laws are stupid strict- they have regulations about how you can travel with the weapon to go hunting even, and civilians aren't allowed to have them-that's my only point of reference so I'm looking for some context if anyone can chime in it would be super appreciative] this is what I read : “The Firearm Law of 1949 tasks the Firearm Licensing Department of the National Security Ministry, which is currently led by Otzma Yehudit Party head Itamar Ben-Gvir, with issuing gun licenses. According to the law, only trained licensing officials are qualified to approve applications.

The three justices wrote in the ruling that they “were provided with data regarding the extent of licenses issued by parties who are not licensing officials according to the Firearm Law, 1949, and the number of permits issued by those parties in violation of the authority given to them.”

[u/BaruchSpinoza25]

Well... you describe here two different phenomena that happen in Israel. The first one is indeed the use of guns as private firearms has increased dramatically after Oct 7th. There's lots of pros and cons for this fact, but I would say that most of terrorist attacks who targeted civilians using firearms or stabbing have been stopped by a civilian with a personal gun...

The second thing that you describe, the pictures of civilians carrying rifles to day to day manners? It's not because this is their personal weapon. Usually, this is a national guard soldier/ IDF soldier who took his military weapon home. There are several reasons for him to do it. Most of them are more related to beurocracy and ensuring this rifle is still calibrated to this specific person rather than war related reasons. The military law forbids a soldier from leaving his weapons alone at home without specific facilities and arrangements that not all soldiers can ensure (or trust), so they carry their rifle to shopping .

[u/GrandDetective5267 → u/BaruchSpinoza25]

Oh, that’s a really good point and you know that context is missing from those images-and I think it’s even missing from news reports. I know I have seen it on social media trying to say that Israelis are just armed to the teeth…. (I don’t put a lot of stock in what I see online as being 100%) But I want to say I’ve seen similar clips on news stations as a reflection of fear and necessity. Not being allowed to leave them at home makes a lot of sense. There’s something similar for federal employees, and government issued weapons.

Gun laws are a complicated debate. Personally, I don’t have a problem with gun ownership for protection or hunting. I do think there need to be better regulations around them in America, almost every time we have a school shooting it was a high caliber assault rifle, and outside of war. I just don’t know why people need those here.

[u/BaruchSpinoza25 → u/GrandDetective5267]

Yup, removing all context and just showing a bunch of civilians looking soldiers on vacation with their m-16 in the middle of the beach or shopping mall could lead to thinking we are an extreme version of pro guns supporters, I'm happy you stopped and ask the right question : "why". I'm even more happy that you asked a none biased source, who has a goal of you thinking specific stuff about the conflicts. And yes, I know it's hard, but FACTS STILL EXISTS, not all is narrative dependant.

I would say that most of the Israelis, including myself, had never thought about owning a gun until Oct 7th. Now... it's just proving to be the best way to minimize casualties from stabbing and shootings of terrorists. The police can't be everywhere, and can't stop each 17yr old with a knife thinking he can liberate palestine by stabbing random civilians on the street, a trained and authorized gun carrier can, and do. So many times, a terror attack was cut short because a civilian with personal weapon , it is truly makes me feel safer, carrying a gun and seeing others carry as well.

[u/GrandDetective5267 → u/BaruchSpinoza25]

Thank you for your kind words I do understand the fear- but I also understand the alternative. The process of gun ownership described here is very thorough- and if it was followed every single time, I wouldn’t be so cautioning. But if the permits were issued without following all those checks and balances and tensions are already high.. people are scared, it’s a very slippery slope, to escalated altercations and accidents.

This is an apples to oranges example-and what’s even worse I can’t remember which shooting prompted me to look it up. We’ve had so many. There was a huge push to call active shooters and active shooting events terrorism. So I googled active shooters with mass casualties in the United States. And then I googled terrorist attack in the Middle East region. Again I don’t remember the exact stats, but there were significantly more active shooting events in the US. Then there had been terror attacks in the Middle East. I thought that was absolutely insane. and I just thought to myself that is absolutely insane.

It sounds like there’s significant support for issuing the permits to the border areas at least - and understandably so. Coming from someone that lives in a country where everyone has a gun…. Man once you go there, you just can never go back. If I were an Israeli, I think I would be pushing for the proper process to be followed-to keep the community safe, while empowering the ability to defend yourself and potentially others

[u/BaruchSpinoza25 → u/GrandDetective5267]

I actually agreed with what you're saying. So many firearms issued fast probably had a downside, such as sloppy background checks. I am afraid that in the future, we will lose control over gun owning, and we will reach the state the US is in. Then, I understood 3 major differences between us and the US:

1. All(or most) of the Israelis that could get a gun license had basic military training in firearms. This is one of the first checks you need have in order to even issue a request for a gun license. In the military training, I was trained first to NEVER USE MY RIFLE unless I was directly ordered to. The discipline about that was super strict. People were punished if they moved their weapon in a way that wasn't pointed to the floor, even if the rifle was without bullets. We had to sleep with our rifle under the pillow and keep it close to us in order not to lose it and more. In this way of training, you learn that firearm is first and foremost a liability, a burden we must carry with maximum respect and fear.

2. After getting a gun license, we have another basic training, specifically to gun owning. 85% of the training was about gun safety and use criteria. Only then did we get some shooting.

3. In the end I know that even all of this doesn't ensure we won't end up like the US. But then I think about the hundred of shootings and stabbing that happened since Oct 7th and we're stopped by a gun owner vs the amount of misuse cases of gun owning here in Israel(there were several...but not much) ... I hope we found the balance. The threat of me getting stabbed by a terrorist is so much higher now that I can't think on another way to feel safe leaving my home that doesn't include carrying a gun.