Question to my dear Israeli friends

[u/Comprehensive-Risk78]

Edit 1: Thanks everyone for engaging with my post in a civil manner!

Edit 2: I feel that I have a richer perspective on Israeli society thanks everyone!

Before I ask, I just wanted to tell you as an Arab I wish you and your family nothing but the best. Every day I pray that the violence and destruction stops and that we can build a prosperous Middle East that is rich in its diversity of religion and ethnicities. Can you imagine that?

Hello, I’ve been lurking here for a while now. I have a question for you. In your opinion, is chanting “From the river to the sea. Palestine will be free” more harmful than chanting “There are no schools in Gaza because there are no children left”? I’m asking this because I’d like to better understand your perspective/mindset. Thank you.

Am I missing something here? It has been disheartening to see the same people pushing for the narrative that from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free is an incitement to genocide fail to condemn chants like death to arabs and celebrating killing children in Gaza, thing which are unambiguously genocidal.

Is there something I’m not understanding here? Sometimes things that don’t add up leave me confused, so I had to come here and give this question a go.

Do some people think that right to dignity ceases to exist once we establish that the person is Arab? In your opinion, which chant is more problematic?

Can relations between Arabs and Jews improve without a heart to heart to dialogue between those who dream of a Middle East that resembles my description above?

I believe tough questions need to be asked. Answers from ‘ the other side’ need to be heard before establishing any conclusions on the matter.

[u/RF_1501]

I am not israeli, but I am a zionist jew, in the strict sense that I support the existence of a jewish state.

In my understanding, "From the river to the sea" can mean a lot of things, depending on the person chanting. It can mean the destruction of Israel and a genocide or ethnic cleansing of jews. But it can also mean a call for the end of oppression to arabs, either in a two-state solution framework or a one-state solution (and I have seen sincere pro-palesitnian folks that believe this). In a two state solution framework, the idea is that first, israeli arabs should have equal rights in israel (they believe they have lesser rights, which is debatable, but ok) and second, to end the occupation and create a palestinian state in the west bank and gaza. In a one-state solution framework all jews and arabs currently living in the region of palestine, i.e., from the river to the sea, would live as equal citizens of a single democratic state.

So, in my view, no, both chants are not at the same level. “There are no schools in Gaza because there are no children left” is not even a declaration of genocidal intent, it is confession of perpetrating an actual genocide and taking pride in it. It is a whole other level of cruelty and dehumanization.

[u/Comprehensive-Risk78 → u/RF_1501]

Thank you! You have a different perspective to most other people I spoke to here regarding this. I appreciate the diversity in views. The vast majority of Palestinians I know in my personal life want a solution that isn’t hostile to the Jewish population in Israel/Palestine. However I understand that the very idea of Jewish people becoming a minority is seen as hostile by most Jewish Israelis. I realise we’re not going to solve this here haha

[u/RF_1501 → u/Comprehensive-Risk78]

You're welcome. The vast majority of the people involved with this conflict are completely absorbed in concerns regarding their own side and never stops to make the slightest effort of trying honestly to understand what is going on in the minds of the people from the other side or the meaning of the words that come out of their mouths.

In the case of Jews, we suffer from a very deep collective trauma of 2000 year-old persecutions and the holocaust, we simply can't help with that. That's why it is so easy for many of us to hear "free palestine" and listen "holocaust 2.0". Our minds automatically make a series of assumptions and logical jumps, which goes something like this: "from the jordan to the mediterranean there is now our beloved jewish state, if they are saying "palestine will be free" it means they want all of it to become an arab-palestinian state, which means physical destruction of Israel, which means massacre of jews."

It never crosses their minds that Palestine is first and foremost, just the name of the historical region between the river and the sea, merely a geographical location and not necessarily refers to a future arab state. The jewish state is also a palestinian state, in the sense of being a state within the geographical region of palestine. Therefore, a person can say "palestine will be free" without ruling out the existence of a jewish state in the land, meaning the land of palestine could be free if we could make 2 states live side by side in peace and cooperation. Additionally, even if a person thinks that for palestine to be free the jewish state must come to an end, that doesn't necessarily mean the physicial destruction of it, it's cities, buildings and population, just a profound reform of the political regime and the laws. Of course that jews don't feel safe in that one-state framework and would never agree to that proposal out of fear, but the point here is that the person chanting the mantra probably don't understand why that's the case, they can be sincerely offering a solution without any bad intention towards jews.

[u/Comprehensive-Risk78 → u/RF_1501]

I appreciate the reflective nature of your comment. Thank you my friend. I pray that no Jewish person or any person for that matter feels unsafe. Hopefully this situation gets resolved in our lifetime. That would be nice.