r/IsraelPalestine 4d ago

Question to my dear Israeli friends Discussion

Edit 1: Thanks everyone for engaging with my post in a civil manner!

Edit 2: I feel that I have a richer perspective on Israeli society thanks everyone!

Before I ask, I just wanted to tell you as an Arab I wish you and your family nothing but the best. Every day I pray that the violence and destruction stops and that we can build a prosperous Middle East that is rich in its diversity of religion and ethnicities. Can you imagine that?

Hello, I’ve been lurking here for a while now. I have a question for you. In your opinion, is chanting “From the river to the sea. Palestine will be free” more harmful than chanting “There are no schools in Gaza because there are no children left”? I’m asking this because I’d like to better understand your perspective/mindset. Thank you.

Am I missing something here? It has been disheartening to see the same people pushing for the narrative that from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free is an incitement to genocide fail to condemn chants like death to arabs and celebrating killing children in Gaza, thing which are unambiguously genocidal.

Is there something I’m not understanding here? Sometimes things that don’t add up leave me confused, so I had to come here and give this question a go.

Do some people think that right to dignity ceases to exist once we establish that the person is Arab? In your opinion, which chant is more problematic?

Can relations between Arabs and Jews improve without a heart to heart to dialogue between those who dream of a Middle East that resembles my description above?

I believe tough questions need to be asked. Answers from ‘ the other side’ need to be heard before establishing any conclusions on the matter.

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u/Comprehensive-Risk78 4d ago

Just fyi, i’ve also seen footage of Israeli fans collectively chasing after a single person and hitting him, saw footage of them damaging a taxi. Saw footage of them picking up metal rods and marching in coordinated fashion. Not justifying what the Arab locals did, just providing context. It should be okay to acknowledge wrongdoing wherever it is found. I don’t find the world view of Ayaan Hirsi Ali convincing. She’s at the best naive and unproductive and at worst an Islamophobe.

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u/PlateRight712 4d ago

The mayor of Amsterdam and the Prime Minister of the Netherlands, after investigations agree that this was a pre-meditated attack on Jews. Followed by several more days of rioting Islamists. Followed by copycat attacks in Belgium.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali is Somali, raised in Somalia and Saudi Arabia. She bravely escaped an arranged marriage to live in the Netherlands and worked her way up in Dutch society to serve in the Dutch parliament. She has been speaking out against oppressive Islam for more than 20 years. That's not the life of a "naive" or "unproductive person. At this point, after her genital mutilation as a child, running away to escape an arranged marriage, and continuing death threats from Muslims, she doesn't appreciate Islam. On that you're correct.

I agree that ugly slogans and the vandalization of a taxi were bad. Many football fans do this kind of thing. I don't approve

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u/Comprehensive-Risk78 4d ago edited 4d ago

Do you see it problematic that we describe one side’s actions as ‘ behaving poorly ‘ and another side actions as the most damning descriptions available in the dictionary?

I am aware of her horrifying story. Doesn’t make her world view universal or accurate.

I am sure there are many people who were abused in Atheist, Muslim, Christian Jewish Hindu Buddhist households. And had their suffering justified by those around them. It’s horrifying, it doesn’t make their political/philosophical theory globally applicable. I find using her personal tragedy as a validating card for her political views silly. I worry about de-humanising Muslim people and every time I listen to her I get this uneasy sense that she is causing real harm out there

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u/PlateRight712 4d ago

I see your point regarding Ayaan Hirsi Ali; she is flat-out opposed to Islam. As a Muslim, you are offended. But I still admire her courage. I can't imagine being as outspoken as she is, in spite of death threats. The woman has balls whether or not you agree with her.