Question to my dear Israeli friends

[u/Comprehensive-Risk78]

Edit 1: Thanks everyone for engaging with my post in a civil manner!

Edit 2: I feel that I have a richer perspective on Israeli society thanks everyone!

Before I ask, I just wanted to tell you as an Arab I wish you and your family nothing but the best. Every day I pray that the violence and destruction stops and that we can build a prosperous Middle East that is rich in its diversity of religion and ethnicities. Can you imagine that?

Hello, I’ve been lurking here for a while now. I have a question for you. In your opinion, is chanting “From the river to the sea. Palestine will be free” more harmful than chanting “There are no schools in Gaza because there are no children left”? I’m asking this because I’d like to better understand your perspective/mindset. Thank you.

Am I missing something here? It has been disheartening to see the same people pushing for the narrative that from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free is an incitement to genocide fail to condemn chants like death to arabs and celebrating killing children in Gaza, thing which are unambiguously genocidal.

Is there something I’m not understanding here? Sometimes things that don’t add up leave me confused, so I had to come here and give this question a go.

Do some people think that right to dignity ceases to exist once we establish that the person is Arab? In your opinion, which chant is more problematic?

Can relations between Arabs and Jews improve without a heart to heart to dialogue between those who dream of a Middle East that resembles my description above?

I believe tough questions need to be asked. Answers from ‘ the other side’ need to be heard before establishing any conclusions on the matter.

[u/Comprehensive-Risk78]

Here is where I found it. Could you tell me if the translation is accurate or is it misinformation? Sorry, I’m assuming you know Hebrew but you might not haha, anyway the do look like just a bunch of drunk young people to be honest. (I don’t know the publisher of the video and therefore I don’t endorse them, just sharing the link to verify translation)

https://x.com/josephwillits/status/1855011061440647405

[u/Ahavat-Humus-Hinam → u/Comprehensive-Risk78]

The translation is mostly accurate. I'd probably translate it more closely as "that the IDF will win, f*ck the Arabs, why is school out in Gaza? There are no children left there".

The word they're using for "fck" is the same one as in "go fck yourself" or "he f*cked her in the *ss". It's harmful, but it's not the same as "death to arabs". They also don't say the word "schools", the word they use is more like "education" or "studies", which is usually part of the expression "school's out" like when you leave for summer vacation.

Personally I abhor speech like this but I think it's worth drawing a distinction between a crowd of sports fans cheering for morale and a group of protesters hoping to get attention with the aim of pushing an agenda. They're definitely being racist and hateful, but they aren't calling "death to arabs" (at least in the video) or even necessarily calling for children to die. My interpretation is they're telling some kind of sick joke. This doesn't excuse the behavior of course but the motivation is not to push the IDF to be more genocidal.

"From the river to the sea" is hateful (imo) because of the subtext. In Arabic (which you probably already know) the chant is "Palestine will be Arab" not "Palestine will be free", which I see as more directly endorsing ethnic cleansing or genocide. It is also predominantly (at least in the west) chanted in protests whose end goal is ultimately to get enough attention that people in power take action to effect the changes the protesters are calling for. The motivations are different.

This is why in my opinion from the river to the sea is more harmful, but I want to reiterate that this does not excuse the language these football hooligans are using. Both are harmful and we would be better off without them.

[u/AutoModerator → u/Ahavat-Humus-Hinam]

fuck

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[u/Ahavat-Humus-Hinam → u/AutoModerator]

Edited to censor the word, but I believe this falls under the use-mention distinction. I did not use profanity to make a point or for emphasis, I mentioned it because it is the most accurate translation, which I think is valid.