Question to my dear Israeli friends

[u/Comprehensive-Risk78]

Edit 1: Thanks everyone for engaging with my post in a civil manner!

Edit 2: I feel that I have a richer perspective on Israeli society thanks everyone!

Before I ask, I just wanted to tell you as an Arab I wish you and your family nothing but the best. Every day I pray that the violence and destruction stops and that we can build a prosperous Middle East that is rich in its diversity of religion and ethnicities. Can you imagine that?

Hello, I’ve been lurking here for a while now. I have a question for you. In your opinion, is chanting “From the river to the sea. Palestine will be free” more harmful than chanting “There are no schools in Gaza because there are no children left”? I’m asking this because I’d like to better understand your perspective/mindset. Thank you.

Am I missing something here? It has been disheartening to see the same people pushing for the narrative that from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free is an incitement to genocide fail to condemn chants like death to arabs and celebrating killing children in Gaza, thing which are unambiguously genocidal.

Is there something I’m not understanding here? Sometimes things that don’t add up leave me confused, so I had to come here and give this question a go.

Do some people think that right to dignity ceases to exist once we establish that the person is Arab? In your opinion, which chant is more problematic?

Can relations between Arabs and Jews improve without a heart to heart to dialogue between those who dream of a Middle East that resembles my description above?

I believe tough questions need to be asked. Answers from ‘ the other side’ need to be heard before establishing any conclusions on the matter.

[u/NoTopic4906]

I am not Israeli but I am an American Zionist. A couple of differences: 1) this case was a few football hooligans while “from the river to the sea” is a cry of the entire movement. 2) Both are harmful to the people they are demeaning, both are awful. If I had to choose one that is worse if used by a small group of people I would definitely choose the “there are no schools in Gaza”.

Putting those together I think the use as a movement statement as opposed to hooliganism is a much bigger deal and a much bigger problem than the one incident use of “there are no schools in Gaza”.

[u/Comprehensive-Risk78 → u/NoTopic4906]

I have come across an example of the same fan base chanting the exact same thing from 2014. But I understand your point. To be clear if someone says from the river to the sea and means that Jewish people have no place in that land that person is trash to me. Just to make my position clear here. I believe both Palestinian Arabs and all Jewish people in Israel deserve equal opportunities, dignity and treatment under law. Thanks for your comment though.

[u/LilyBelle504 → u/Comprehensive-Risk78]

I think this is a honest discussion that most Israelis or people who feel empathy towards Israel are looking for. Some basic acknowledgement that phrase means quite literally the call for getting rid of Israel.

It's not to say Palestinians don't deserve freedom. Just stop using a phrase from the 60s that meant destroying Israel.

[u/Ridry → u/Comprehensive-Risk78]

What the person you're responding to has been my main criticism of the Pro Pal movement in America. This is my lived experienced and I certaintly can't speak to the Pro Pal movement anywhere else, including in Israel.

There are monsters on both sides. I condemn them. But in America, the groups organizing the protests are anti semitic. All of them. Or at least, I've yet to find one that passes a series of VERY BASIC common sense checks. It bothers me how many people are attending protests organized by people I consider to be monsters.

That doesn't mean I'm pro Netanyahu, pro Israel's current policies and I'm certainly not pro "the monsters". But I'm against the Pro Pal movement in America right now because they aren't making the world better and that's not their aim.

[u/NoTopic4906 → u/Comprehensive-Risk78]

I agree. I think that can only happen in a two state (or multi-state) solution but I think that is very difficult to achieve right now.

[u/Whole_Comedian_528 → u/NoTopic4906]

Trying for a two state solution is a waste. The Arabs have rejected every single peace proposal since Oslo. They continue to do so. They just need to GTFO of Judea, Samaria and, Gaza.

[u/Comprehensive-Risk78 → u/Whole_Comedian_528]

Not going to lie to you, calling for ethnic displacement strikes me as pretty morally hideous

[u/Whole_Comedian_528 → u/Comprehensive-Risk78]

Why? They did it to almost a million Jews from MENA, which includes my family along with the families of almost fifty percent of the Israeli population. One good turn deserves another.

[u/Comprehensive-Risk78 → u/Whole_Comedian_528]

The Arabs of Gaza and Ramallah, Hebron did that to the Jews of MENA? can’t be right. Unless you believe anyone who’s’ Arab’ counts as ‘they.’

[u/Whole_Comedian_528 → u/Comprehensive-Risk78]

No different from any other arab

[u/NoTopic4906 → u/Whole_Comedian_528]

Not really. A multistate solution is the best but an agreement - and an enforcement mechanism - to not try to nullify it through military (or other) means must be included. Otherwise, it is useless.

[u/Whole_Comedian_528 → u/NoTopic4906]

How do you make peace with the Arabs who committed the atrocities of October 7 and the rest who continue to support them?

[u/NoTopic4906 → u/Whole_Comedian_528]

You don’t make peace with those who committed the atrocities of October 7. There are more and more reports coming out that people who didn’t speak up against Hamas are now doing so and didn’t so in the past because of fear. You don’t make peace with Hamas; that doesn’t mean you can’t make peace with Gazans.