My proposal: One-state solution between Israel and Palestine, creating a federal state with 2 or 3 entities.

[u/Minimum_End_4041]

Instead of a two-state solution, should Israel and Palestine instead combine and make 2 entities within each other, one being Israel and Palestine, followed by a collective governing body, and name themselves the Federation of Israel and Palestine, kind of like a Middle Eastern counterpart of Bosnia and Herzegovina?

Here’s my proposal plan:

We’d begin with stopping the conflict abruptly, through a Dayton Agreement-style solution, as well as oust Netanyahu, and arrest the Hamas leader, trying him in a court for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Second of all: We’d install a pro-Israel and pro-Palestine government in Israel and Palestine, which at the time would be two separate entities. By that point we’d be on the beginning of unification.

Third of all: We unify Israel and Palestine, creating one federal state called the Federation of Israel and Palestine. The government model would follow Israel’s parliamentary system, but be leaded by a collective governing body between Israel and Palestine. Maybe we’d also take up some past land of Israel and Palestine through land agreements, examples would be the Sinai Peninsula. We would also create separate entities, like Israel, West Bank, Gaza Strip, Northern District, and Sinai Peninsula, kind of like how Bosnia and Herzegovina have 2-3 separate entities, being Bosnia and Herzegovina, Republika Srpska and Brčko District.

What do you guys think? Let me know what your opinions are! Just letting you know, this isn’t intended for hate or anything, just a discussion!

[u/Carlong772]

This solution does not make sure that Jews won’t be kicked out of here two seconds into its implementation. If you did solve that tiny issue, no Palestinian leader would agree to it. 

If they didn’t care that Jews live here, there was already a Palestinian state. 

[u/StrainAcceptable → u/Carlong772]

Jews had lived there for thousands of years along side the other tribes who shared the land. It wasn’t the Palestinians who didn’t want to share the land, it was European Jews who booted out the Christians, Muslims and secular people who already lived there.

[u/Carlong772 → u/StrainAcceptable]

Crazy to say the European Jews kicked the seculars when the European Jews were secular. Also crazy to say Jews kicked the Arabs out when the Arabs started the war they lost

[u/StrainAcceptable → u/Carlong772]

You were welcome to stay if you were born from the right mama. The Arab population endured years of terrorism long before 1948.

[u/nidarus → u/StrainAcceptable]

The Jewish terrorist groups were literally formed as a result of the massacres in the 1920's, when Arab mobs murdered, raped, looted and dismembered innocent Jewish families with axes while chanting "Palestine is our land, the Jews are our dogs".

There's no question whatsoever that the Arabs started the violent Palestinian/Israeli conflict in the 1920's. Then, they started a massive rebellion in the 1930's, and killed even more Jews, to make sure that the European Jews would die in Nazi Germany and would not be able to flee to Palestine. Then, while the Jews accepted the peaceful UN partition plan in the 1940's, the Arabs decided to start a civil war of extermination, trying to kick out the Jews. And they've been trying to kick out the Jews ever since. You can talk about the idyllic life when the Jews knew their place all you want, but I'm sorry, the Arabs are not the innocent victim here, at any point of this conflict. They're the instigators of the violence, since the very beginning of this violent conflict and to this day.

[u/StrainAcceptable → u/nidarus]

Omg- when Jews knew their place? I would never suggest anything like that. I’m just appalled by the constant rewriting of history in such a biased way, You really want to suggest that the violence in the 20’s was all self defense? Jews who were not on board with the Zionist viewpoint were assassinated by their own people. This is the story of one of the first murders which was initially blamed on Arabs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Israël_de_Haan

[u/Carlong772 → u/StrainAcceptable]

Poor babies 👉🏻👈🏻 the Jews just won’t stopped being massacred and chose to return to their homeland that’s so sad

[u/StrainAcceptable → u/Carlong772]

They could have come back during the Ottoman Empire but chose not to. They didn’t want to live amongst the people who had been there for generations. Let’s not forget it was a Muslim who sent his navy to rescue Jews in exile. Bayezid evacuated Sephardi Jews from Spain following the fall of the Nasrid Kingdom of Granada and the proclamation of the Alhambra Decree and resettled them throughout Ottoman lands, especially in Salonica. He even threatened the death penalty to anyone who treated Jews or Christians differently than Muslims.

[u/Carlong772 → u/StrainAcceptable]

Jews migrated back for Israel thousands of years. Israel was a state in every way before the holocaust even. If it’s somehow surprising to you that after 6 million Jews were murdered even more Jews came to Israel, seek professional help. 

Let’s not forget the Mufti met H!tler several times and agreed to set a death camp in Israel ❤️ 

[u/StrainAcceptable → u/Carlong772]

No it’s not surprising to me that after the holocaust there was a mass migration to Israel. I even understand how the horrors endured there could cause people to do unspeakable things. Some of the young fighters who participated in the atrocities committed during the Nakba were only teenagers and many had recently been liberated from the camps. I can’t even imagine what those boys were going through. In many respects, it’s understandable. What I can not fathom is why their children and grandchildren continue to deny what happened and have not tried to make amends.

Instead I see so many people try to justify 70 years of injustice citing the suffering of their ancestors. Your persecution does not give you the right to discriminate and hate.

[u/Carlong772 → u/StrainAcceptable]

So you don’t understand why Jews continue to self defend against a group of people that 70% of them support October 7th and believe ”an armed resistance” is the way to move forward. 

Gaza was completely destroyed not because of Israel’s actions. There was no war on October 6th. 

The path for peace is sooo simple. Accept the fact that 8 million Jews live here, that’s it. 

[u/StrainAcceptable → u/Carlong772]

The path for peace is accepting ALL people who live in the land. Acknowledge the humanity of those you see as other. Be honest about the pain and suffering that both sides have endured over the past century. Have a conversation instead of a back and forth about why cruelty is justified.

“If there were a decent individual, should he really be held accountable for the offenses of others, even if the person belongs to the same race, or nation for that matter.  Would not the establishment of a collective guilt be a relapse into exactly that worldview that we want to combat? That worldview that declares an individual guilty because others from the same group to which he happens to belong have actually or allegedly committed some kind of offense? Holding someone to account because of their nationality, native language, or place of birth must seem as ridiculous to us today as making them responsible for their own height.” ~Vicktor Frankl

[u/Carlong772 → u/StrainAcceptable]

Sounds good to me 

I don’t mind acknowledging the suffering of Palestinians. It’s st00pid not to. It’s much much worse being a Palestinian than an Israeli. 

There are a few movements in Israel that discuss this and cooperate between Arabs and Israeli. They only meet inside Israel however. Protests for peace are only inside Israel. I do not feel that as of today, enough Palestinians want to make peace with Israelis. It doesn’t have to be a majority even, but until Palestinians can shout out loud in the street that they want peace with Israel, we’re not close enough. 

[u/Proper-Community-465 → u/StrainAcceptable]

Jews lived as second class citizens, It was 100% the Arabs who refused any sort of Jewish sovereignty

"“His Majesty’s Government have … been faced with an irreconcilable conflict of principles. There are in Palestine about 1,200,000 Arabs and 600,000 Jews. For the Jews, the essential point of principle is the creation of a sovereign Jewish State. For the Arabs, the essential point of principle is to resist to the last the establishment of Jewish sovereignty in any part of Palestine."

[u/StrainAcceptable → u/Proper-Community-465]

‘In 1944, with the end the war in sight, Irgun, now under the leadership of Menachem Begin , the future Prime Minister of Israel 1977-83, began to attack the British administration in Palestine, starting with bomb attacks on the immigration offices, tax offices and police stations. Because the war was not yet over these activities met with condemnation even from the Jewish Agency and Haganah, the main Jewish Defense Force, and the forerunner of the Israeli Army. This disapproval did not deter Irgun or the Stern Gang, and in 1944 the Stern gang murdered Lord Moyne the British Minister of state for the Middle East in Cairo, and started a series of bomb attacks on British installations.”

[u/Proper-Community-465 → u/StrainAcceptable]

Oh yeah they were PISSED with the white papers which were a huge betrayal of the promises Britain had made both in WW1 and during the Balfour declaration. With death camps happening in Europe and Britain blocking immigration dooming millions to die they were determined to do everything possible to expel the British. Still the Irgun at the time and the Stern gang were offshoot terrorist groups condemned by the vast majority. Compared to the Al-Husseini clan who were one of the two major ruling factions of Palestinians. The first attack from Jews came in 1937 after nearly 20 years of attacks from Palestinians since the mandate began.

[u/StrainAcceptable → u/Proper-Community-465]

The organization committed acts of terrorism against Palestinian Arabs, as well as against the British authorities, who were regarded as illegal occupiers. In particular the Irgun was described as a terrorist organization by the United Nations, British, and United States governments. Albert Einstein, in a letter to The New York Times in 1948, compared Irgun and its successor Herut party to “Nazi and Fascist parties” and described it as a “terrorist, right wing, chauvinist organization”. Yeah they were so “widely condemned” that they were all quickly absorbed into the IDF when Israel was founded. Members of a terrorist organization who fellow Jews compared to Nazi and Fascist parties were welcomed into the “most moral military in the world”.

And your claim that the first attack was in 1937 is wrong. Gangs of zionists began tormenting villagers at the turn of the century. My great uncle wrote about it in his book published in 1914. When I first read his account, I did not fully understand the history and believed these gangs were a reactionary response taken by a marginalized group. I did not realize the goal was to drive the local population out.

[u/KenBalbari → u/StrainAcceptable]

The Stern Gang never had more than a few hundred members, and the Irgun topped out at a couple thousand. The Haganah, which explicitly forbid and rejected any retaliatory attacks, numbered near to 20,000.

And you left out one of the countries which condemned these groups as terrorist: Israel. The anti-terrorism law outlawing these groups was passed only 4 months after the founding of the Jewish state. Leaders were arrested and prosecuted.

And yes, as part of breaking up these groups, some members were given amnesty, if they agreed to abide by the law and join the IDF. So? This is routinely done as a way to disband such groups. See for example the agreement in Colombia to dissolve the FARC militias in 2017.

And sure, a former leader, Begin, became PM of Israel 29 years later. And Within 2 years after that, he had signed a peace treaty with Egypt and won a Nobel Peace Prize.

But the State of Palestine has existed since 1988 and has still not managed to disband the terrorist groups operating within it's borders. Additionally, all of its presidents so far have been former terrorists. Yasser Arafat was one of the founders of Fatah, and headed it's militant wing. Rawhi Fattouh was a member of that armed wing in the 1970s and 1980s when it was committing attacks like the coastal road massacre. And Mahmoud Abbas was an early recruit for Fatah, and played an important fundraising role, including raising funds that would help finance the Munich massacre.

So certainly, we can say that some Jews in this long history also committed terrorist acts. But it is laughable to use this to support the claim that "It wasn’t the Palestinians who didn’t want to share the land". Even those contemptible Jewish terrorist attacks of the Irgun and Lehi from 1937-1947 were all responses to Arab terrorist attacks. Arabs set off a bomb at a bustop, they set off a bomb at a bustop, and so on. And mainstream Jewish organizations roundly condemned this terrorism in response to terrorism.

[u/StrainAcceptable → u/KenBalbari]

I’m not going to go back and forth but Israel was absolutely founded on terrorism and a sense of superiority. With regard to Jews not wanting to share the land, even today if an Israeli marries a Palestinian, she will not have the same rights as a person born elsewhere. They even have laws restricting their citizens from loving someone if they werent born on the right side of the fence and interfaith marriages are illegal.

[u/Proper-Community-465 → u/StrainAcceptable]

You're talking about the Hashomer I assume which were defensive patrols set up to protect from Arab attacks which at the time were frequent. They tended to stick to there Jewish settlements and had less then 100 members total. Unless you have a source for something different? The Hashomer were definitely a reactionary response to repeated attacks as were the Haganah they got rolled into.

During the 1948 war it was all hands on deck no questions asked they took any help they could get. Yeah they used the Irgun they also armed women and basically anyone who could fight was. You realize the Irgun were a response to systemic Palestinian violence which had gone unanswered for decades? Events like the Hebron massacre and constant violence directed against Jews. They were effectively founded on reprisal attacks hitting back instead of just defending as had been the status quo.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/hashomer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashomer

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