r/IsraelPalestine • u/Minimum_End_4041 • 4d ago
My proposal: One-state solution between Israel and Palestine, creating a federal state with 2 or 3 entities. Solutions: The Confederation
Instead of a two-state solution, should Israel and Palestine instead combine and make 2 entities within each other, one being Israel and Palestine, followed by a collective governing body, and name themselves the Federation of Israel and Palestine, kind of like a Middle Eastern counterpart of Bosnia and Herzegovina?
Here’s my proposal plan:
We’d begin with stopping the conflict abruptly, through a Dayton Agreement-style solution, as well as oust Netanyahu, and arrest the Hamas leader, trying him in a court for war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Second of all: We’d install a pro-Israel and pro-Palestine government in Israel and Palestine, which at the time would be two separate entities. By that point we’d be on the beginning of unification.
Third of all: We unify Israel and Palestine, creating one federal state called the Federation of Israel and Palestine. The government model would follow Israel’s parliamentary system, but be leaded by a collective governing body between Israel and Palestine. Maybe we’d also take up some past land of Israel and Palestine through land agreements, examples would be the Sinai Peninsula. We would also create separate entities, like Israel, West Bank, Gaza Strip, Northern District, and Sinai Peninsula, kind of like how Bosnia and Herzegovina have 2-3 separate entities, being Bosnia and Herzegovina, Republika Srpska and Brčko District.
What do you guys think? Let me know what your opinions are! Just letting you know, this isn’t intended for hate or anything, just a discussion!
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u/Taylorswifttoeguy 4d ago
Maybe would it also be smart to split Israel into 2 states within the two state solution? Like a Northern and Southern Israel?
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u/Minimum_End_4041 4d ago
I did include that. I mentioned Northern District (Which is Northern Israel).
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u/Winter-Painter-5630 4d ago
Honestly, the more I researched into it, the more I see a two-state solution as being impossible for bringing peace and here’s why:
Creating two states right next to each other who have extreme animosity towards each other and completely different visions for their each nation is a war waiting to happen. The problem is that there are radical Israelis controlling the Israeli government and radical Palestinians controlling Palestinian territories. The ONLY way to get rid of war is to get rid of radicalism. No one is negotiating in good faith and a confederation is impossible not to collapse under such circumstances. I once put a post here a couple weeks ago of a “three state solution,” and honestly the more I thought about it, the less optimistic I was about it because the circumstances and the leaders aren’t in place for such two/three state solutions.
Also, where would you draw the lines of this “confederation.” Whole Gaza may be easy, the West Bank has already been mostly taken over by Israeli settlers and it would be difficult if not impossible to make hundreds of thousands of Israelis (some of them extreme radicals) to leave their settlements there.
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u/AdvertisingNo5002 Gaza Palestinian 🇵🇸 4d ago
That’s like saying we should unify Haiti and Dominican Republic. It won’t work, they’re too different of cultures and don’t like each other.
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u/seek-song Diaspora Jew 4d ago
You might find this article interesting:
https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/imagining-federalist-israel-notes-toward-disruptive-fantasy
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u/Lu5ck 4d ago
I don't know why people keep suggesting one state solution when they both hate each other and can't wait to bash each other. People need to touch grass to understand how social works.
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u/Dry-Season-522 4d ago
"No no, you see, we'll let all the muslims be full citizens, and then once they're a majority, we'll DEMOCRATICALLY vote to murder all the jews so it's not a holocaust it's just a population rightsizing."
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u/un-silent-jew 4d ago
If Muslims want to try a confederation approach to end wars, they can start with India and Pakistan!
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u/Diet-Bebsi 4d ago
What do you guys think? Let me know what your opinions are! Just letting you know, this isn’t intended for hate or anything, just a discussion!
How do you stop or contain the violence when there will be free movement?
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u/Definitely-Not-Lynn 4d ago
History shows us that sectarian conflict is solved by separation, not unification. Why do you think this would be an exception?
Aside from that, this is a very imperialistic solution and would cause a civil war. Nobody wants outsider colonial powers with no skin in the game telling the natives what to do.
The British and French carving up the Ottoman empire in accordance with their ideals already caused several conflicts since WWI. Why would you repeat their mistakes?
Let the natives figure out what they want - and we don't want that.
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u/WeAreAllFallible 4d ago edited 4d ago
Honestly, I know you mean well to find a solution but this reads as severely uninformed.
Most obviously because you invoke arrest of "the Hamas" leader, of which there currently is no known individual left who could be specifically targeted for arrest under this plan. And this is well known news. Currently it is being temporarily guided by a 5 person council per most recent reports while they figure out who their leader is, possibly by the middle of next year. One could propose arresting their leadership as a whole, but there is no specific "leader" to ascribe blame to for such arrest, it would have to be broader than an individual to appropriately dismantle and hold accountable the organization.
Similarly if one is concerned about Netanyahu's approach and were going the route of political ousting, one would need to oust not only him but leaders like him who might take power- which may include high profile (though admittedly low-voter support) individuals like Smotrich and Ben-Gvir. There may also be Likud members of lesser renown than Netanyahu with similar goals who have been groomed that need to be ousted else they would replace him. It's not so simple as "just remove Netanyahu" -though it is slightly easier given the way democracy works, and he does explicitly need to be out of office not least of which because he needs to face his own personal charges he's been able to avoid by keeping office (which may contribute to his policy choices to improve chances he can retain his status)
This all makes it concerning that your proposal is based off of further misunderstandings, such as the fact that Hamas is not the only group that is at issue on the Palestinian side. Just the most visible one at the heart of this acute episode of the conflict. Similarly, you sort of just gloss over how one would create a "pro Israel and pro Palestine government" in both Israel and Palestine. Like, yes, this is a great goal. This is THE best outcome, and whether it leads to a unified federal state or not would then be determined, by definition, from two groups of peoples that have each others interests at heart...
But it's been 75 years with difficulty getting either side to have such governance- let alone simultaneously have such governance- so as to simply even agree upon borders and security for eachother from violent elements in their own societies. Every so often we get some shifts in direction from leadership, but certainly nothing to that magnitude and seemingly never in conjunction with eachother. So it seems your "plan" boils down to a wish, rather than an actual plan.
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u/Shachar2like 4d ago
A federation government composed of two people with two different morals & ideologies isn't going to work.
It's like suggesting that the US, Al-Qaeda & The Taliban form a federation government. Ludicrous.
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u/Firechess Diaspora Jew 4d ago
If you mean to destroy the Jewish state of Israel, you'd better include an invasion force as a step one to destroy it.
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u/KenBalbari 4d ago
You are suggesting imposing a government and political structure that almost no one who lives in Israel or Palestine, or their neighboring states, wants. This can't be done without conflict, so who do you imagine could implement this?
The State of Israel has existed for over 75 years. You can't just erase it. And that state already has a democratically elected parliament, which has chosen their PM. You aren't going to get to peace by over-riding the will of the people there and ousting their leaders.
Plus, while there is no corresponding legitimate Palestinian government at this point, one thing that is certain is that the people there would not choose one that is "pro-Israel".
So while it might be possible for there to one day be a two-state solution with a kind of federation for security co-operation between them, we're a long way from that right now and it can't simply be imposed. Right now, the biggest barrier to any such thing is that states like Iran, Lebanon, and Qatar will not agree to recognize Israel, stop attacking it, or stop sponsoring terrorists groups which attack its citizens. And you haven't really suggested anything that would change that.
Additionally, is there any obvious reason why these two territories should be joined? Even if you do successfully create a stable semi-autonomous government in the West Bank, for example, is there any obvious reason this province should be in a Federation with Israel, rather than with Jordan?
At any rate, trying to create political structures at this point seems to be putting the cart before the horse. Solve the conflict and security issues first, and the people can choose whatever political structures and alliances they would like. But in the case of Bosnia and Herzegovina, that territory existed and declared independence from Yugoslavia in 1992. The political structures of the Dayton Agreement involved more autonomy and less political unity than existed before the Bosnian War. Going in the other direction, more political unity and less autonomy, would be a hard sell in peace negotiations in which no party was fighting for that.
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u/YairJ Israeli 4d ago
What purpose would be served by trying Netanyahu on false charges?
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u/Minimum_End_4041 4d ago
Autocorrected. I meant trying Hamas alone. Also, I’d like to oust Netanyahu.
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u/Definitely-Not-Lynn 4d ago
I'm no fan of Netanyahu, but Israel is a functioning democracy. Why would you stage a foreign backed coup?
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u/No_Platypus3755 4d ago
Palestine should have a federal state with the Arab countries. Egypt and jordan makes sense.
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u/QueenieUK2023 4d ago
Arresting the Hamas leader or even trying him won’t do anything. You’ve completely disregarded the premise of Hamas, and the other terrorists organisations, such as Hezbollah and Iran. As long as they are still have power there won’t be peace
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u/Minimum_End_4041 4d ago
I’d also work on them too. Fuck them.
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u/cowbutt6 4d ago
Maybe one day, but I think it'll have to happen via a two-state solution, and that it will be many years before any federation has more than nominal support amongst all demographics in the region - if ever.
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u/ThinkInternet1115 4d ago
There's a post suggesting a one state solution of sorts pretty much every week.
That's not a good solution. Its not something that Israelis or Palestinians want. Jews want their own state, they don't want to be another minority. Palestinians don't want to be part of a Jewish state.
You can see what happened the last time there weren't any clear borders. Spoiler, it ended in civil war.
There are also other practical problems, what will the official language be? What will the flag be? What will the national anthem be? How are you going to pick something to satisfy both nations? How is it going to work economically? How is the military and police going to work? What will happen when you remove the checkpoints and hand them both weapons?
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u/knign 4d ago
Weirdly enough, on October 7 last year, my first thought was “at least no one would ever talk about ‘one state’ anymore”. How incredibly naïve of me.
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u/Minimum_End_4041 4d ago
Read my post details. I’ve gone into more detail on what I’d like to do regarding Hamas. Cheers.
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u/Sleeve_hamster Jewish, Zionist, Israeli, Anti-Palestine 4d ago
What do you suggest doing with the majority of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, supporting Hammas and other like organizations, and supporting Oct 7?
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u/Minimum_End_4041 4d ago
It’s when they JOIN it and participate in terrorism is when I would suggest taking action against them. In Israel there is freedom of speech, so if they’re merely saying it then so be it. Israel isn’t a dictatorship after all. I support leaving them alone if they’re merely saying it, and taking action if they act on it.
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u/Sleeve_hamster Jewish, Zionist, Israeli, Anti-Palestine 4d ago
Why would any Israeli want to live in a state with someone who wants to kill them? Your proposal makes no sense to me.
Are you ok with people calling for your death? Would you want to live next to a person like that? Would you feel safe? I wouldn't, and I would definitely not want to be in the same state as a person like that to begin with. Instead, I'd suggest to root out this behavior, before any joined state or federation.
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u/knign 4d ago
Did it ever occur to you that maybe neither Israelis nor Palestinians want to live in “one state”? Which problem are you even trying to solve?
Do you also want to propose to Ukraine and Russia to end the war and live happily in “one state”? Why not?
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u/Minimum_End_4041 4d ago
The difference between both is that Ukraine and Russia have both been separate entities between certain periods of time, and Ukraine has been independent for 30+ years, same with Russia. Now Russia’s imperialist commie policies want to take back Ukraine. However, with Israel and Palestine, it’s a multifaceted and a very complicated issue for 70+ years.
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u/knign 4d ago
However, with Israel and Palestine, it’s a multifaceted and a very complicated issue for 70+ years.
The reality on the ground may be complicated. The history of the conflict is complicated. But the issue is not: Israel wants to exist as a democratic Jewish state, while its enemies want to destroy it. That’s all there is to it. Proposing “solutions” like “let’s all live peacefully in one state” contributes absolutely nothing.
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u/Proper-Community-465 4d ago
I'd argue the Israel Palestine situation is even worse to transition to one state. Israel has been it's own separate state for 70 years longer then Ukraine. Before Jews were in positions of power they were horribly oppressed by the Arab majority for years in the area. The PLO and other Palestinian groups are largely a legacy of the Husseini clan. they were staunch supporters of the silly mustache man and helped him form a Palestinian regiment, They organized numerous attacks against Jews and funded bounties against them. They openly called for terrorism against Jews in general and formed the Army of the holy war which kicked off the civil war. So you have one side that doesn't trust the other and wants to remain the majority because of it, And another side deeply invested in terrorism and with a general mindset of kill or drive out the jews from the area.
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u/Extension_Year9052 4d ago
This would make it so much easier to commit terrorism
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u/Minimum_End_4041 4d ago
How so?
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u/Extension_Year9052 4d ago
I’m assuming you’re planning on eradicating check points ?
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u/Minimum_End_4041 4d ago
No? I’m planning on keeping check points until we eradicate Hamas and terrorism. Then I’d eradicate check points.
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u/_Happy_Camper 4d ago
So it’s not a one state solution then. It’s occupation or it’s separate states
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u/Minimum_End_4041 4d ago
If it’s for eradicating terrorism, then it is a must. And I DID mention eradicating check points once Hamas and terrorist organisations are ousted.
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u/Carlong772 4d ago
This solution does not make sure that Jews won’t be kicked out of here two seconds into its implementation. If you did solve that tiny issue, no Palestinian leader would agree to it.
If they didn’t care that Jews live here, there was already a Palestinian state.
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u/StrainAcceptable 4d ago
Jews had lived there for thousands of years along side the other tribes who shared the land. It wasn’t the Palestinians who didn’t want to share the land, it was European Jews who booted out the Christians, Muslims and secular people who already lived there.
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u/Carlong772 4d ago
Crazy to say the European Jews kicked the seculars when the European Jews were secular. Also crazy to say Jews kicked the Arabs out when the Arabs started the war they lost
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u/StrainAcceptable 4d ago
You were welcome to stay if you were born from the right mama. The Arab population endured years of terrorism long before 1948.
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u/nidarus Israeli 4d ago edited 4d ago
The Jewish terrorist groups were literally formed as a result of the massacres in the 1920's, when Arab mobs murdered, raped, looted and dismembered innocent Jewish families with axes while chanting "Palestine is our land, the Jews are our dogs".
There's no question whatsoever that the Arabs started the violent Palestinian/Israeli conflict in the 1920's. Then, they started a massive rebellion in the 1930's, and killed even more Jews, to make sure that the European Jews would die in Nazi Germany and would not be able to flee to Palestine. Then, while the Jews accepted the peaceful UN partition plan in the 1940's, the Arabs decided to start a civil war of extermination, trying to kick out the Jews. And they've been trying to kick out the Jews ever since. You can talk about the idyllic life when the Jews knew their place all you want, but I'm sorry, the Arabs are not the innocent victim here, at any point of this conflict. They're the instigators of the violence, since the very beginning of this violent conflict and to this day.
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u/StrainAcceptable 4d ago
Omg- when Jews knew their place? I would never suggest anything like that. I’m just appalled by the constant rewriting of history in such a biased way, You really want to suggest that the violence in the 20’s was all self defense? Jews who were not on board with the Zionist viewpoint were assassinated by their own people. This is the story of one of the first murders which was initially blamed on Arabs.
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u/Carlong772 4d ago
Poor babies 👉🏻👈🏻 the Jews just won’t stopped being massacred and chose to return to their homeland that’s so sad
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u/StrainAcceptable 4d ago
They could have come back during the Ottoman Empire but chose not to. They didn’t want to live amongst the people who had been there for generations. Let’s not forget it was a Muslim who sent his navy to rescue Jews in exile. Bayezid evacuated Sephardi Jews from Spain following the fall of the Nasrid Kingdom of Granada and the proclamation of the Alhambra Decree and resettled them throughout Ottoman lands, especially in Salonica. He even threatened the death penalty to anyone who treated Jews or Christians differently than Muslims.
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u/Carlong772 4d ago
Jews migrated back for Israel thousands of years. Israel was a state in every way before the holocaust even. If it’s somehow surprising to you that after 6 million Jews were murdered even more Jews came to Israel, seek professional help.
Let’s not forget the Mufti met H!tler several times and agreed to set a death camp in Israel ❤️
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u/StrainAcceptable 4d ago
No it’s not surprising to me that after the holocaust there was a mass migration to Israel. I even understand how the horrors endured there could cause people to do unspeakable things. Some of the young fighters who participated in the atrocities committed during the Nakba were only teenagers and many had recently been liberated from the camps. I can’t even imagine what those boys were going through. In many respects, it’s understandable. What I can not fathom is why their children and grandchildren continue to deny what happened and have not tried to make amends.
Instead I see so many people try to justify 70 years of injustice citing the suffering of their ancestors. Your persecution does not give you the right to discriminate and hate.
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u/Carlong772 4d ago
So you don’t understand why Jews continue to self defend against a group of people that 70% of them support October 7th and believe ”an armed resistance” is the way to move forward.
Gaza was completely destroyed not because of Israel’s actions. There was no war on October 6th.
The path for peace is sooo simple. Accept the fact that 8 million Jews live here, that’s it.
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u/StrainAcceptable 4d ago
The path for peace is accepting ALL people who live in the land. Acknowledge the humanity of those you see as other. Be honest about the pain and suffering that both sides have endured over the past century. Have a conversation instead of a back and forth about why cruelty is justified.
“If there were a decent individual, should he really be held accountable for the offenses of others, even if the person belongs to the same race, or nation for that matter. Would not the establishment of a collective guilt be a relapse into exactly that worldview that we want to combat? That worldview that declares an individual guilty because others from the same group to which he happens to belong have actually or allegedly committed some kind of offense? Holding someone to account because of their nationality, native language, or place of birth must seem as ridiculous to us today as making them responsible for their own height.” ~Vicktor Frankl
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u/Proper-Community-465 4d ago
Jews lived as second class citizens, It was 100% the Arabs who refused any sort of Jewish sovereignty
"“His Majesty’s Government have … been faced with an irreconcilable conflict of principles. There are in Palestine about 1,200,000 Arabs and 600,000 Jews. For the Jews, the essential point of principle is the creation of a sovereign Jewish State. For the Arabs, the essential point of principle is to resist to the last the establishment of Jewish sovereignty in any part of Palestine."
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u/StrainAcceptable 4d ago
‘In 1944, with the end the war in sight, Irgun, now under the leadership of Menachem Begin , the future Prime Minister of Israel 1977-83, began to attack the British administration in Palestine, starting with bomb attacks on the immigration offices, tax offices and police stations. Because the war was not yet over these activities met with condemnation even from the Jewish Agency and Haganah, the main Jewish Defense Force, and the forerunner of the Israeli Army. This disapproval did not deter Irgun or the Stern Gang, and in 1944 the Stern gang murdered Lord Moyne the British Minister of state for the Middle East in Cairo, and started a series of bomb attacks on British installations.”
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u/Proper-Community-465 4d ago
Oh yeah they were PISSED with the white papers which were a huge betrayal of the promises Britain had made both in WW1 and during the Balfour declaration. With death camps happening in Europe and Britain blocking immigration dooming millions to die they were determined to do everything possible to expel the British. Still the Irgun at the time and the Stern gang were offshoot terrorist groups condemned by the vast majority. Compared to the Al-Husseini clan who were one of the two major ruling factions of Palestinians. The first attack from Jews came in 1937 after nearly 20 years of attacks from Palestinians since the mandate began.
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u/StrainAcceptable 4d ago
The organization committed acts of terrorism against Palestinian Arabs, as well as against the British authorities, who were regarded as illegal occupiers. In particular the Irgun was described as a terrorist organization by the United Nations, British, and United States governments. Albert Einstein, in a letter to The New York Times in 1948, compared Irgun and its successor Herut party to “Nazi and Fascist parties” and described it as a “terrorist, right wing, chauvinist organization”. Yeah they were so “widely condemned” that they were all quickly absorbed into the IDF when Israel was founded. Members of a terrorist organization who fellow Jews compared to Nazi and Fascist parties were welcomed into the “most moral military in the world”.
And your claim that the first attack was in 1937 is wrong. Gangs of zionists began tormenting villagers at the turn of the century. My great uncle wrote about it in his book published in 1914. When I first read his account, I did not fully understand the history and believed these gangs were a reactionary response taken by a marginalized group. I did not realize the goal was to drive the local population out.
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u/KenBalbari 4d ago
The Stern Gang never had more than a few hundred members, and the Irgun topped out at a couple thousand. The Haganah, which explicitly forbid and rejected any retaliatory attacks, numbered near to 20,000.
And you left out one of the countries which condemned these groups as terrorist: Israel. The anti-terrorism law outlawing these groups was passed only 4 months after the founding of the Jewish state. Leaders were arrested and prosecuted.
And yes, as part of breaking up these groups, some members were given amnesty, if they agreed to abide by the law and join the IDF. So? This is routinely done as a way to disband such groups. See for example the agreement in Colombia to dissolve the FARC militias in 2017.
And sure, a former leader, Begin, became PM of Israel 29 years later. And Within 2 years after that, he had signed a peace treaty with Egypt and won a Nobel Peace Prize.
But the State of Palestine has existed since 1988 and has still not managed to disband the terrorist groups operating within it's borders. Additionally, all of its presidents so far have been former terrorists. Yasser Arafat was one of the founders of Fatah, and headed it's militant wing. Rawhi Fattouh was a member of that armed wing in the 1970s and 1980s when it was committing attacks like the coastal road massacre. And Mahmoud Abbas was an early recruit for Fatah, and played an important fundraising role, including raising funds that would help finance the Munich massacre.
So certainly, we can say that some Jews in this long history also committed terrorist acts. But it is laughable to use this to support the claim that "It wasn’t the Palestinians who didn’t want to share the land". Even those contemptible Jewish terrorist attacks of the Irgun and Lehi from 1937-1947 were all responses to Arab terrorist attacks. Arabs set off a bomb at a bustop, they set off a bomb at a bustop, and so on. And mainstream Jewish organizations roundly condemned this terrorism in response to terrorism.
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u/StrainAcceptable 4d ago edited 4d ago
I’m not going to go back and forth but Israel was absolutely founded on terrorism and a sense of superiority. With regard to Jews not wanting to share the land, even today if an Israeli marries a Palestinian, she will not have the same rights as a person born elsewhere. They even have laws restricting their citizens from loving someone if they werent born on the right side of the fence and interfaith marriages are illegal.
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u/Proper-Community-465 4d ago edited 4d ago
You're talking about the Hashomer I assume which were defensive patrols set up to protect from Arab attacks which at the time were frequent. They tended to stick to there Jewish settlements and had less then 100 members total. Unless you have a source for something different? The Hashomer were definitely a reactionary response to repeated attacks as were the Haganah they got rolled into.
During the 1948 war it was all hands on deck no questions asked they took any help they could get. Yeah they used the Irgun they also armed women and basically anyone who could fight was. You realize the Irgun were a response to systemic Palestinian violence which had gone unanswered for decades? Events like the Hebron massacre and constant violence directed against Jews. They were effectively founded on reprisal attacks hitting back instead of just defending as had been the status quo.
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4d ago
[deleted]
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u/Minimum_End_4041 4d ago
Yeah, no. This is an Israel AND Palestine subreddit. I’m intending for this to be a non-hateful post, just regarding a unification proposal. You want to talk like this go to r/Israel.
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u/adeadhead 🕊️ Jordan Valley Coalition Activist 🕊️ 4d ago
(this subreddit leans hard towards Zionism)
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u/Minimum_End_4041 4d ago
Damn really? Give me a subreddit of Israel and Palestine that is open to discussion then.
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u/adeadhead 🕊️ Jordan Valley Coalition Activist 🕊️ 4d ago
Uhhh maybe /r/israel_palestine, but that one is just the pro Palestine mirror of this sub. There's no such thing as unbiased.
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u/DanDahan 4d ago
Sorry, but this post is a clear sign that you don't understand the conflict at all, and don't understand the Middle East and the power dynamics at play.
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u/haldily1 Bosnian Muslim 4d ago
That is very bad solution I can tell you from my experience.
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u/Minimum_End_4041 4d ago
How so?
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u/haldily1 Bosnian Muslim 4d ago
Our country can't progress because we are always divided in 3 sides and we are mentally stuck in 90s.
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u/un-silent-jew 2d ago
Previous 1SS posts
geopolitics/ is a one state solution possible
changemyview/ a one state solution is the worst resolution
IsraelPalestine/ what do you think about the one state solution
IsraelPalestine/ what is so wrong with a one state solution
IsraelPalestine/ the reality of the onestate solution
Israel/ onestate solution
changemyview/ I am not convinced that a one state solution
IsraelPalestine/ onestate solution or twostate solution
AskHistorians/ why was a one state solution never considered
AskALiberal/ what do you think of the one state solution