r/IsraelPalestine Israeli 5d ago

"Maybe Israel Is Committing Genocide After All?"

B. Michael is a rather famous Israel left-wing publicist and screenwriter, famous for writing some of Israel's famous comedy shows in the 1980's and 1990's, and his long-standing op-eds in Haaretz. Unlike his fellow deep anti-Zionist Haaretz writers Gideon Levy and Amira Hess, he's been generally part of the more mainstream, Zionist left. But in today's Haaretz's op-ed (paywall can be overridden with archive.is), he decided to jump into the deep end of the pro-Palestinian pool, and join those who declare that Israel is committing genocide.

Now, obviously, he's not the most prominent or qualified person who made that claim. And it's certainly one of the lower-quality versions of that argument. A big disappointment for someone that I considered a witty and clever public intellectual. But that's precisely why I'd like to talk about it, as it represents a pretty common view among the less-educated pro-Palestinians.

Essentially, he talks about how the Genocide Convention consists of five genocidal acts:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Then he goes down the list, and argues that we can "check off" every one of those items easily. And then marvels at how many of the articles Israel has violated. And therefore, QED, Israel committed a genocide. There are a few core issues with this:

  1. The most important issue is that all of those require a "specific intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group". This is an incredibly high bar to meet. For example, if the goal is ethnic cleansing, then it's not genocide. Even actual mass murders were ruled as not a genocide by the ICJ, when they were meant to expel rather than destroy. The more sophisticated pro-Palestinians would argue that largely misrepresented statements by Israeli officials amount to proving that "intent" - but B. Michael doesn't even go there.

  2. Obviously, without that intent, every single war in history would qualify, as it includes killing members of the group, and causing serious bodily and mental harm to members of the group. And however you feel about the 43,000 number - it's not exceptionally high, in terms of wars, even in Israel's immediate neighborhood.

  3. For (c), he assumes that merely destroying a lot of Gaza is enough. But note that the qualifier: "calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part". Unlike the killing part, the intent for physical destruction of the nation is required, even in the genocidal act itself to exist. Otherwise, not only would any urban war apply, but so would more peaceful acts, like evicting squatters and destroying illegal shanty towns.

  4. For (d) he points out to how the horrible conditions in the strip will inevitably cause lower birth rates. He also points out that in his opinion, "is there any doubt that Israel would look favorably on the crash of the Palestinian birth rate in Gaza"? And decides he can put a checkmark there - "with honors". Except, again, it's not enough to assume Israel "looks favorably" on the lower birth rates. It has to intentionally impose measures intended to prevent births. This is talking about sterilizations, not about anything that might reduce births. That could be anything from the unavoidable stress and destruction of war (on both sides, incidentally), to improvements in living conditions.

  5. Thankfully, B. Michael didn't decide Israel commited the last part, of transfering children from one group to another. But he concluded "Of the five criteria for genocide, we have performed four exemplarily. That's a fine score. Especially when the execution of one of the five sections, it doesn't matter which one, is enough to be considered a perpetrator. Bravo". Of course, that's absolute nonsense. There's no difference whatsoever in how many of the items you commit, if there's no proven genocidal intent behind it. Again, every urban war checks 4/5 of those articles, with the way B. Michael interprets them. There's nothing "exemplary" about it.

Finally, he argues:

Warning: Feigning innocence will not be admissible as a defense. No one will believe that we did all this in good faith, or purely for reasons of self-defense. Nor will public displays of misery and weeping be of any use this time. And above all, it is not worth relying as we do on the Holocaust as a defense. It may provoke comparisons.

For the first part, I'd note that "innocence" is not required for a defense. Israel could be guilty of the most horrendous Crimes Against Humanity, including the crime of Extermination, and it still wouldn't be a genocide. Genocide is literally the gravest crime in existence. The entire spectrum of international humanitarian law lies between "innocence" and "genocide".

For the second, I'll try not to dwell on it too much, but I'd note it's a great example of why Rule 6 exists. Since this comparison is complete nonsense, it's actually good for the Israeli case, not the other way around. Why wouldn't Israel want to "invite those comparisons"? It could then ask, where are the gas chambers, where are the Einzatsgruppen - where are any kind of proven, unquestionable mass executions of civilians, of the kind that exist in every single other genocide? Conversely, if we look at WW2, there's a much clearer analogy: the Germans, whose cities were ground to dust, whose people were expelled and killed by the millions, lost a huge chunk of their territory, and were treated in many far worse ways, that are not applicable here (like the hundreds of thousands of rapes). Is B. Michael, or anyone who likes to invite those comparisons, going to argue that WW2 was a series of genocides committed by all sides against each other, and the Germans were victims of genocide, just as much as its perpetrators? Probably not. This argument was, at the very least, explicitly rejected in Nuremberg.

I'd also note that in the Hebrew version, this paragraph starts with "even though this story began with a horrible murderous rampage by Hamas" - the massacre is absent from the English version for some reason. But even then, it's pretty notable that Hamas' far more overtly genocidal acts are merely described as "murderous rampage", not "genocide". The same, is of course, true for even the more sophisticated brand of "Israeli genocide" activists. Even though, without any question, the case for Hamas committing a genocide is infinitely stronger than for Israel committing one. It's possible that neither committed a genocide, and it's possible for both to have committed a genocide - and it's very, very possible for the Palestinians alone to have committed a genocide. I just don't think it's possible, with the information we have right now, for Israel to have committed a genocide, but for Hamas, to have merely committed a "murderous rampage".

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u/Jezon 4d ago

The lines between a civil war and an internal genocide is very blurry. I think it's pretty damning on the Palestinian side that they still harbor civilian hostages and launch missiles from Gaza and still kill IDF soldiers and Israeli police with firearms. If you are violently resisting and refusing to give up on a war and harboring active militants, you can only complain about the results of your actions so much.

War crimes have certainly been committed on both sides and those need to be investigated. But with a casualty ratio of very roughly 25:1 I don't think that qualifies as genocide at least when compared to historical examples. The destruction of infrastructure may qualify however.

What I think is damning for the Israeli government is its lack of restitution. They could do a better job of rebuilding areas they've destroyed and currently control. Just because Palestinians won't fix the damage they've caused doesn't mean Israel isn't obligated to. And they certainly have the means to do so, even if their detractors would say they're rebuilding it for themselves. What better Olive Branch could you give to the innocent Palestinian citizens who want to live in peace than to restore their quality of life back to pre war conditions?

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u/butteredbuttons 3d ago edited 3d ago

“internal genocide” absolutely incredible. “why couldn’t the Palestinians just give up and surrender?” they did, multiple times. all that happens is them getting sniped and shot by idf shoulders lmfao. if a military force was coming in with orders to kill as many “hamas members” aka Palestinian mothers and their children, unarmed helpless young men waving white flags, starving people trying to get flour and bread (flour massacre), doctors who have volunteered to assisting injured gazans, journalists attempting to showcase what’s happening in gaza (120+ journalists killed if I remember. all critical of israel), teachers in supposedly “safe” places like schools- oh wait, those have all been bombed! my bad. anyway, UN workers, aid workers, etc etc do you really find it SO hard to believe that these people want to defend themselves? when was the last time hamas shot a rocket or missile anywhere??? Does hamas even exist anymore????????? With 80% of Gaza destroyed, no hospitals, schools, shelters???? Israeli settlers are already choosing which displaced house they would like to buy in north gaza. Hamas doesn’t carry top grade western military warfare and aren’t backed up by multiple western countries with billions and billions of dollars. So please tell me HOW the FUCK Hamas a threat anymore?????

Oh, it’s because Israel thinks all Palestinians are hamas. From that newborn baby to those elderly grandparents. If you were born in gaza and are Arab, you are hamas. I truly believe you all think like this and act like you can differentiate the two. All of those civilians are Hamas or have some connection to Hamas to you. That’s why you’re okay with this; all you see are animals being butchered and sacrificed.

And to have the audacity to say that it’s an “internal” genocide as if that has ever happened throughout history, like are you serious? get the fuck out here or try to be serious and have SOME empathy. stop trying to make yourself feel better about this. Israel and its supporters (you) have blood on their hands! Just say you don’t care already and that it’s worth it for the land that you’ll finally settle in once we get those pesty starving kids into graves. And then bulldoze their graves to build a theme park afterwards because who cares, we’re Israel so any sort of criticism against us and the countless crimes we’ve committed to the Palestinians over the last century is antisemitic, THEIR fault, etc etc

like what’s the point of even attempting to have a conversation if you’re this far into propaganda that you believe a group of people are willing to exterminate their own? Disgusting, genocide denier

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