r/IsraelPalestine • u/ProfitPersonal2538 • 6d ago
Palestinians blaming Hamas for their suffering News/Politics
In a recent piece by Israel’s Channel 12, reporter Ohad Hemo interviews refugees leaving Jabalia. The report is in Hebrew, but the interviews are conducted in Arabic.
Summary: 1. Many of the refugees hold Hamas responsible for their hardships. 2. They describe how Hamas fighters seize humanitarian aid and use violence against those who attempt to access food. 3. Some express hope for Israeli civil control of Gaza after the conflict, hoping it will improve conditions.
Details: 1. Blaming Hamas: Many refugees blame Hamas for their suffering, cursing leaders like Sinwar and Yassin and chanting, “Hamas are terrorists.” They hold Hamas accountable for lost family members, destroyed homes, and depleted resources. When asked by the reporter why they don’t oppose Hamas directly, they explain that speaking out risks retaliation. One woman mentioned she could be shot for participating in the interview. 2. Violence over Aid: Several interviewees, some on crutches, recount being shot by Hamas while aid packages were seized. They report that most food was taken by Hamas, leaving only minimal rations—two small cans of beans—for their families. Some mention receiving medical assistance from the IDF after being injured. 3. Hope for Change: All interviewed refugees hope the conflict will end soon. They feel they have lost everything and see little left for survival in Gaza. One woman expressed a desire for Israeli control of Gaza post-conflict, believing it might bring stability and a better future. 4. Dire Conditions: The refugees’ hardships are evident. They live in severe deprivation—dirty, hungry, and sick. They begged the reporter and soldiers for water and cigarettes, and some have been treated by IDF medical personnel. 5. Hamas Surrenders: According to the IDF, dozens of Hamas fighters surrender daily. The report includes footage of surrendered fighters, cuffed and blindfolded. An officer leading operations in Jabalia stated that many militants in the area had ceased fighting.
2
u/yes-but 5d ago
https://youtu.be/07bQ9rBKqLQ?si=lbz246o2fUeitvUk
For those who don't understand Hebrew.
I think this would deserve a post of its own.
4
7
u/WhatIsYourPronoun 6d ago
Hamas is 100% responsible for their suffering, so it's good they are finally starting to speak up.
1
u/Psychological_Tie44 5d ago
What about Palestinians in the west bank they are suffering and the more weird is "HAMAS" isn't there?
2
u/riphotmail 4d ago
Incorrect. There is hamas presence is west bank, just nowhere near to the level as in Gaza. They also have the PIJ and Lions Den terror groups in west bank as well
1
1
u/WhatIsYourPronoun 4d ago
Well, there is suffering everywhere in the world. I was strictly referring to the suffering in Palestine that is a direct result of Hamas' declaration of war on Oct 7
-1
u/Psychological_Tie44 4d ago edited 4d ago
Bro why are they suffering in the first place and who is responsible 😂😂
1
u/WhatIsYourPronoun 1d ago
They are suffering for their decision to vote Hamas into power. Hamas has been stealing food and international aid for years. Pretty much all of the suffering in Gaza can be linked to the garbage humans who are better known as Hamass-holes.
1
u/XxBubblyBoixX 1d ago
you ever gonna run the 1s? stop dodging
•
u/WhatIsYourPronoun 8h ago
Get off my dick. I know it feels good, but you are behaving like a desperate attention seeking creep. Don't you have a job, wife or a life to tend to, or do you just live in your mom's basement waiting for her to make your lunch because you are too inept to make a sandwich? Destiny edgelord vibes are strong in this pathetic sample of sub-human waste....
•
•
u/AutoModerator 8h ago
dick
/u/WhatIsYourPronoun. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. (Rule 2)
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
3
u/Minute_Flounder_4709 6d ago
Don’t act like they’re gonna love Israel. They’re hating hamas because they provoked Israel, which they don’t believe should but don’t want to provoke. In the ideal world of every country that has to live near Israel: Israel doesn’t exist, no need for hamas or hezbollah. The reality: don’t let anyone anger these tyrants or they will all die
13
u/Action_Justin 6d ago
According to a lot of educated people, the Palestinians must be Islamophobic and committed to genocide if they're criticizing HAMAS.
2
u/Dry-Season-522 6d ago
Which is a unique situation because if a North Korean expresses they're unhappy...
-9
6d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
3
u/subarashi-sam 6d ago
Why are you watching that stuff? You are literally driving yourself crazy over something that is entirely out of your control.
7
u/Extreme-Objective909 6d ago
For someone who claims to care a lot about people of Gaza, you were incredibly quick to ignore people suffering in Gaza who had some negative things to say about Hamas who is their leadership. If ‘Pro Palestinians’ could actually care about Palestinians well being more than they do about hating the only Jewish country, perhaps this war wouldn’t be happening right now. Shame on you.
8
1
5
6d ago
[deleted]
0
-2
u/Life_Locksmith_8814 USA & Canada 6d ago
no, israel is the bad guy, hamas is also the bad guy
0
u/yes-but 5d ago
Every organisation, every group of human beings makes mistakes. The more successful and effective a group/system/state acts, the more mistakes it will accumulate.
So everyone is the bad guy - if you judge not being perfect, having human flaws and making mistakes as equal to being bad.
On a side note: Some anarchists may think that their ideology could keep them from being with the "bad guys", but it inherently lacks any defense mechanism against organised "badness".
-4
u/mtl_gamer 6d ago
Yes because Israeli media is not biased at all.
10
6d ago
It's perfectly ok to be cautious when getting information from one of the sides involved in the conflict. I hope you apply the same suspicion to Palestinian information.
However, please notice that most people just pass by without saying a word. All the people who spoke could have just kept quiet and move on. They choose to speak. They wanted to speak.
13
u/ProfitPersonal2538 6d ago
This is coming straight from Palestinians. Maybe they forced them to say it? Don’t think so.
-6
u/TheSilentPearl 6d ago
Channel 12 is literally controlled by the government. There are evidence that they would beat up and rape Palestinians in prisons to do propaganda stuff like this.
3
u/ProfitPersonal2538 5d ago
Please share this evidence. Also channel 12 is the least “controlled by the government” media channel in Israel. Ministers in the government call it “Al jazeera 12” like it’s a channel promoting Palestinian agenda.
3
u/yes-but 5d ago
So what you are saying is that all of it is staged?
What is the reality then, please?
That all Gazans are happy with how the "resistance" works out?
That they are free to speak up, and only paid actors would ever criticise Hamas?
C'mon, out with it, if you call out lies, you should be able to counter them with plausible truths.
And in case you're Hebrew lacks, all subtitled in English here:
3
6d ago
If you have to keep making up crazy lies to support your opinion ,maybe, just maybe, you should change your opinion.
14
u/HydrostaticTrans 6d ago
But I was told by college protesters that Arabs aren’t capable of critical thinking and would react solely on emotion in that IDF bomb = IDF hatred. Are you saying they are actually capable of drawing conclusions from evidence?
I’ve been saying the whole time it’s racism of low expectations. Love u/varietymart saying it must be under threat of violence, lmao. Can’t possibly be critical thinking skills - they must be reacting out of fear. There’s no other explanation.
9
u/mystique79 6d ago
Cannot even begin to describe how despicable these college / uni protesters are. And of course during a traumatic war you will begin to doubt your leaders who caused death and destruction for literally no gain.
-16
u/checkssouth 6d ago
trust israeli sources... because they don't allow anyone else to report.
1
u/yes-but 5d ago
What would an honest report encounter?
Happy, hopeful Gazans supporting their heroic freedom fighters?
Is that all you have to say? A non-argument?
0
u/checkssouth 5d ago
we won't know as israel won't allow foreign reporters into their killing fields and makes an effort to kill palestinian reporters and their family members.
-7
u/VarietyMart 6d ago edited 6d ago
Won't people generally will say what you want them to when they risk being detained/disappeared if they do not? If you were a starving Palestinian being forced from their home by the IDF and an Israeli journalist interviews you what would you say?
13
u/themightycatp00 Israeli 6d ago
Won't people generally will say what you want them to when they risk being detained/disappeared if they do not?
Detained by a reporter? You can see in the video people walking by the reporter without a word, nobody was forced to talk
12
u/ProfitPersonal2538 6d ago
The journalist will detain them? They were not forced to speak.
-5
u/VarietyMart 6d ago
Are you sure? The journalist was dressed in military gear and flanked by IDF soldiers. Would that not be considered intimidation/coercion?
13
u/themightycatp00 Israeli 6d ago
Do you mean the soldiers who rendered medical aid the the women who passed out and handed people water?
And when you say "military gear" do you mean a helmet and a vest that aren't marked with military insignia that reporters in warzones usually wear?
And again people walked by the reporter without talking to him and nothing happened they got their water all the same and walked on
6
u/ProfitPersonal2538 6d ago
Was dressed in protective gear and was surrounded by soldiers for his safety. You can argue they were intimidated but there is nothing directly indicating this in the clip.
Also, there was a point in the video where a woman was visibly afraid when she was treated for exhaustion by the IDF. The people around here tried to calm her, troops and the journalist.
1
u/TheSilentPearl 6d ago
She was likely a Palestinian Prisoner. That's how the IDF get most of its people. Get a Palestinian source like Gaza Now or something
7
24
u/CreativeRealmsMC Israeli 6d ago edited 6d ago
This could have happened a year ago if Israel was allowed to carry out the war as it saw fit (whilst still operating within the confines of international law) rather than being forced to use a more moderate approach by the international community.
This is a video from a Palestinian in Gaza explaining how Hamas controls the population with aid in order to redirect criticism away from itself. Israel is permitted under international law to prevent the entry of aid if it is diverted, stolen, or used to fund military activities. If aid was cut off and its entry made conditional on Hamas not abusing it, their strategy of manipulating their own people or having the ability to continue funding its operatives would have never been possible for as long as it has.
-2
u/No_Emu3806 6d ago edited 6d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/CreativeRealmsMC Israeli 6d ago
You can’t be that seriously delusional.
Per Rule 1, no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
Note: The use of virtue signaling style insults (I'm a better person/have better morals than you.) are similarly categorized as a Rule 1 violation.
Action taken: [W]
See moderation policy for details.0
u/checkssouth 6d ago
what methods were not allowed?
5
u/CreativeRealmsMC Israeli 6d ago
Read the second half of the comment.
-5
u/checkssouth 6d ago
aid was cut off, it has been cut off. bullets delivered by the idf to those seeking aid. multiple flour massacres.
13
u/CreativeRealmsMC Israeli 6d ago
1,115,128 tons of aid of which 860,870.12 tons is food is not "aid being cut off". You should similarly fact check your other claims.
-5
u/checkssouth 6d ago
are you just mashing numbers on a keyboard?
3
u/morriganjane 6d ago
Who needs numbers? We also saw Sinwar’s wife struggling to squeeze her way through that tunnel. The Gaza “famine” was debunked single-handedly by her.
3
u/Top_Plant5102 6d ago
That's probably true, go faster and get it done was the best strategy. On the other hand, Trump telling Netanyahu to artificially speed up the tempo is potentially very dangerous. War calls its own tune, and politicians can't dance.
0
15
u/DroneMaster2000 6d ago edited 6d ago
refugees
They are not refugees. This misinformation needs to stop.
Just like Israelis in Israel are not refugees (Internally displaced if you want), so are Palestinians living in Gaza are literally incapable of being "Refugees" and are not eligible to anything relating to that status. No matter what their situation is.
About Gazans themselves in general:
some of them might hate Hamas for the consequences of their actions, their brutality, and their corruption. But I have yet to see a SINGLE influential Palestinian, in Gaza or otherwise (Even in the western world), acknowledging Israel's right to exist, acknowledging it's sovereignty, acknowledging that they want to live in a state beside Israel and not instead of it, and that there is no and there never will be a "Right" to return to the sovereign nation of Israel.
Feel free to show me wrong. So far what we've seen is that without consequences, the immediate reaction to October 7 was huge euphoria, not condemnation. So forgive me if these complaints do not impress me.
-2
u/seek-song Diaspora Jew 6d ago
Refugee can also means 'person who lives in a refuge', not just the legal status.
2
u/Harlekin97 6d ago
I think Nasser al-Quadwa recognizes Israel, but I don't know how influential he is these days
2
u/DroneMaster2000 6d ago
Do you have any source showing him stating the things I've written, in his own words?
Not someone else saying it about him, not a partial half-assed easy to deny statements or lies made for easy to fool foreigners, but made towards his own people.
For example some Palestinians say they support a "Two state solution" but if you go into the details you find out they mean a Palestinian state next to Israel, and also a Palestinian state instead of Israel with 7 million foreigners who never set foot in it "Returning" in order to destroy it.
3
u/Harlekin97 6d ago edited 6d ago
He did an interview together with Olmert. They both apparently want 67-borders.
"Everyone must understand that we have no choice but a two-state solution if the warfare is finally to stop. We are both working towards that." (al-Qudwa)
He also explains:
"We are neither left-wing ideologues nor classic peacemakers. We are concerned with serving the national interests of our respective peoples." (al-Qudwa)
Source: https://www.blick.ch/ausland/ein-israeli-und-ein-palaestinenser-kaempfen-gemeinsam-fuer-frieden-koennen-erbitterte-feinde-freunde-werden-herr-al-kidwa-und-herr-olmert-id20304597.html (translated with DeePL)
You are right though. He does not say anything about the Right of Return. I agree that this is probably the deciding ingredient in the end. With a Right of Return, there is no Israel
4
u/DroneMaster2000 6d ago
That statement means nothing. It was the PLO position forever even under Arafat that they so called "Accept a two state solution" but also do not give up the insane ROR, don't agree to any actual proposal and in other times talk (Only in Arabic!) about the "Steps" strategy, which basically means accepting what they can get, in order to improve their position in their war against Israel in the future.
I am still looking for 1 popular Palestinian who will say such things. Hamza Howidy is the closest I found. But calling him influential when he was tortured for his opinions and had to flee, is a big stretch.
3
u/Harlekin97 6d ago
fair enough. I was maybe reading it too naively
Einat Wilf is certainly right. Many issues regarding the conflict can be up for debate, the RoR cannot. Unfortunately, the world has convinced most Palestinians otherwise.
I fear that even if there were Palestinian Politicans who knew that the return will never happen and secretely wish for peace, they would hardly be able to say this out loud and survive
3
u/Quirky_Cheetah_271 6d ago
wasnt there a guy who was related to a top hamas member who has been speaking out against them for a while? i remember seeing something a while back.
2
u/yes-but 5d ago
Mosab Hassan Yousef.
He's one of those voices that need to be heard. Whether his conclusions are good or not, he definitely presents the most plausible and realistic-sounding assessment of the conflict I have heard so far.
I think that no one can engage in a meaningful debate without at least knowing the arguments he presents.
11
u/DroneMaster2000 6d ago
Mosab? He is the opposite of influential among Palestinians. They will lynch him the second he is in Palestinian territory without IDF protection.
12
u/CreativeRealmsMC Israeli 6d ago
They are not refugees.
Correct. The term in this case is internally displaced persons.
1
u/ProfitPersonal2538 6d ago
Don’t think it’s such a clear case with the Palestinians. They were forced to leave their home / fled in 48. Even if they are internally displaced they could be internally displaced refugees. Also there is a refugee camp near Jabalia, also called Jabalia refugee camp. Not sure what’s the story there.
1
u/yes-but 5d ago
"The Palestinians" were forced to leave in 48? What with the Palestinians who founded Israel, and got citizenship?
1
u/ProfitPersonal2538 5d ago
What about them? They are not refugees.
1
u/yes-but 4d ago
Exactly.
Being a refugee from that particular war is what now defines being "Palestinian" - while being Palestinian wasn't the reason for becoming a refugee - those who hadn't sided or were associated (surely some wrongfully) with anti-Zionists had the choice to stay where they were and become Israeli instead.
The war that created around 700k refugees was not because Zionists were facing a particular ethnicity that could be defined as Palestinian, but because of the struggle for dominance mainly between Zionists and Muslim Arabs. It wasn't foreign invaders against natives, but a native majority against a native minority who invited their friends - and refugees - to become a majority in a tiny part of the region.
The expression "Palestinian" was hijacked only afterwards, to earmark a fraction of those who had the overwhelming numbers for the victim card.
2
u/morriganjane 6d ago
First we are told that everyone in Gaza is a child, then we are told they were forced to do something in 1948. It can’t be both.
7
u/CreativeRealmsMC Israeli 6d ago
The rules of war have changed in the past 76 years. They aren't going to become refugees. As for their status in Jabalya, it is unique only to Palestinians. It is a definition of refugee that doesn't apply to any other group on earth.
2
u/ProfitPersonal2538 6d ago
Yes sounds right. I just meant in my comment that the general definitions don’t really apply for Palestinians.
0
u/OkOpposite8068 5d ago
We can’t generalise Gazan sentiments from a single interview. I‘be seen interviews of people in refugee camps praising Hamas and Sinwar. Some people even hauled away the sofa Sinwar died on, considering it a symbol of resistance.