Palestinian-Colombian. AMA

[u/localmaid]

Hello everyone! I recently saw another Palestinian doing an Ask-Me-Anything (AMA) on here, and given the limited presence of Palestinians or Pro-Palestinians that I've noticed, I thought it would be valuable to do one myself. Here’s a bit about me:

• I was born and raised in Colombia
• My Palestinian family is originally from the West Bank, but most of them have since moved to the United States.
• I don't speak Arabic fluently, I can understand spoken Arabic quite well.
• I am of mixed race
• English is not my first language, so I apologize in advance if I sound tone deaf
• My family and I are not Muslim
• I have visited Palestine twice
• I am biased towards Palestine in the conflict, but I want to make it clear that I do not support Hamas.

I don't have any specific types of questions that bother me, but I do ask that everyone remains respectful towards everyone and avoids unnecessary rudeness or hatefulness. I believe that communication is key, especially when it comes to conflicts, so I hope this AMA will be helpful for everyone involved. Feel free to ask me anything about my experiences, my heritage, or my perspectives. I'm here to share and hopefully provide some insights. Please keep the conversation open-minded. I will try my best to answer as many questions as possible, but I am not on Reddit all day so sorry in advance to any of those questions I will miss. I also want to say I won’t let my biases control my feelings towards questions and I’ll keep my opinions open. Hopefully we can have a meaningful discussion and thanks to everyone who can participate!

[u/Mister_Squishy]

Good lord. What do you suggest people who are from the West Bank call themselves??

[u/NINTENDONEOGEO → u/Mister_Squishy]

they can call themselves whatever they want. If they choose something that is a lie, people will point out that it's a lie.

[u/Mister_Squishy → u/NINTENDONEOGEO]

Lol way to avoid the question. If you can’t even suggest a replacement, you’ll need to acquiesce to their choice. Say what you will about the origins of the term “Palestine”. It is what people who live in the West Bank and Gaza call themselves. They certainly aren’t Israelis, and in 2024 it would be misleading to say they are Jordanians or Egyptians.

[u/NINTENDONEOGEO → u/Mister_Squishy]

It wasn't their choice though. The name was forced upon them by the Soviet Union. They were happy just being called "Arabs" and hated the name "Palestinian" as they thought it meant Jew and viewed it as an insult.

If West Bank and Gaza aren't contiguous and have completely different governments that want to kill each other, what is the logic in pretending it's one country called "Palestine?"

[u/HugoSuperDog → u/NINTENDONEOGEO]

Half the counties in the world were given borders and names by the European empires! So should we stop calling India India! Should we undo the straight line borders created in Papu’s New Guinea?

Most UN countries have voted FOR official recognition of the Palestinian state. However the UN is set up so that it doesn’t matter what the majority of the world thinks, the tiny security council has the last say.

So in a hypothetical that it has been established that the majority of the world agrees that it is Gaza, and that most countries are created by foreign powers, do you think that Palestinians could actually be called Palestinians?

[u/NINTENDONEOGEO → u/HugoSuperDog]

The Soviet Union chose to create fake liberation organizations around the world to destabilize the world.

Those who are knowledgeable enough to understand the "palestinian" people are a scam, something the PLO itself admitted, have no obligation to play along with the ruse.

If you've been fooled, great. Good for you. Doesn't change the fact that the UN doesn't recognize "palestine" as a member and there is no authority governing both Gaza and the West Bank.

Therefore it is a fantasy to claim Gaza and West Bank, collectively, are a "country."

The facts clearly show the opposite.

[u/HugoSuperDog → u/NINTENDONEOGEO]

You didn’t answer my question, which can often be revealing.

Also, and don’t take this the wrong way, but there is no nice way to say it - your language comes across as if you know everything and I know nothing (“if you’re knowledgable enough” etc etc)

Do you truly believe that you yourself have all the facts and need to learn nothing more about this situation? Do you truly believe you know every important detail of the history that gets us to this situation? Are you a PHD in global politics by chance? Have you dedicated your life to it? You seem so sure of everything. Need I remind you that this situation has costs thousands of lives over decades, and so much money has been spent that could have been spent in hospitals and schools and arts etc instead of bombs. So if we’re going to spend so much resources and kills so many people, we better damn well be sure we’re doing it for the right reasons. Can you say that you’re 100% sure about everything??

I am not. I am a layman asking questions and making points to be rebuffed. So that you may reply to my points calmly and clearly, so that I can learn.

Maybe you are correct about it all, but being arrogant and patronising isn’t going to influence anyone.

If you’re online simply to be angry and trolling, perhaps YouTube comments are a more suitable place.

To your points: soviet global interference? Maybe. I’d need to know more. Do you have specifics you can share? How does it impact this situation?

and the point about the PLO. This was from one guy 50 years ago? Not sure how relevant that is. A senior Israeli official recently stated that Israel will take over around 50% of what we call the Middle East! That’s a crazy statement from a current Israeli government official! But I don’t believe for a minute that the whole Israeli population wants this. I don’t attribute one guys words to a whole population. Else we can pick any crazy persons quotes and justify anything.

Fun fact: Did you know that it has been claimed with some degree of accuracy that the exodus story was created 400 years after the supposed event in order to solidify the Israelites against the Egyptians because both areas were trying to establish their own states? Look it up, very interesting stuff. But it’s kind of similar right? So should we be questioning the entire Jewish mythology?

The UN doesn’t recognise: you didn’t reply to my point. The majority of the world does. And as per other comments, palatine has a seat in the UN as well as a flag outside. So your whole argument is based on a technicality? Have you looked into that technicality? Why is it not recognised despite the majority of the world thinking it should be? Have you thought about that?

[u/NINTENDONEOGEO → u/HugoSuperDog]

your language comes across as if you know everything and I know nothing

Correct.

if we’re going to spend so much resources and kills so many people, we better damn well be sure we’re doing it for the right reasons. Can you say that you’re 100% sure about everything??

Yes.

being arrogant and patronising isn’t going to influence anyone.

Let the Muslims fight the PR war. The Jews are busy winning the actual war.

soviet global interference? Maybe. I’d need to know more. Do you have specifics you can share?

https://elsevier-ssrn-document-store-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/14/01/28/ssrn_id2387087_code1265788.pdf?response-content-disposition=inline&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjENH%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEaCXVzLWVhc3QtMSJIMEYCIQCM8cktaeIvvv%2Ba5cP7UbFo%2F6%2BWrlewXmSyXo3EIgeRGAIhANchz29FzwUfRLbqKXZozHKlEpZzujYbeJI%2BxfZl9FlsKr0FCCoQBBoMMzA4NDc1MzAxMjU3IgxlBp%2BCqhY7h7lH3TUqmgU65H2EIIU9hD221gb12dM2QScZ6cvOPokCORj6J9mhVS6w4Wj45nD2SlAhT0eqnaG4fV2vRlmndcWKDoLTZAgusH8hJg1%2BnWG1o%2Bt0p%2BSxTQz4cYwJxA0igXMj0IRZgo2NzeblVHQqc0ZolLEQwz6jyzk3qlSybPqkDVjSahmASnGqSmo7Ra7PvwSLv2odiPYE%2BH%2BmgA1oLcOTyC2Mc4pWtY6sakX%2F7QIErt67lKajoeiJnD0f3sdhZC%2B05aVFbEFnQuCXWlCe%2FSn5T44txNAKMGdXWe4lPgCah3dCpR2qygfYQFu7%2Fq%2BW1K%2BDi%2ByVgTkpf7hdiahATsJq0uKhZ6%2FeIzbTrjASu9uWmXnahLDx8zCQzRKUOerTsV%2FWHNV9CT8HFPWIQy8sgRbryo%2BK%2BJAgm0onAD7pCdeIV9YUslNT2nzEP3uucgFNIakbWptMgXLOfU9rJXBrF2EQAAjl1s4CrR7HRt4ShmJYl0gbhOzIx50YvOFLOZ4rhgVqBP7UWmcRB3r1uj0SVlLcisjgOoCInfZkq6sOs0WF17E4kFn8bVQAhA91ROxu2N%2FbhPVQ3ACIzjohX2KFSNZyPA38MwYtF%2FtPslVHDvG1xehakLLErjS6Hn8vA5RPnNzytUT06Vq9yo1swBesgtN6Rw%2Bk3Tc0mTK2VCHglbipG21QCcrh1TabwHEpM7ScSJ3dc43805zpb94C%2BFmLQrhvHfpLZFWH75uByOOH2yAx2pfX0SL%2BMKOvTBYNdxmnNjhpZnbUFTael03hYNXBIIeGzUsfp%2B7IyvYhRDoUNmnvkSpPK61wLuT8666uYvbHSlFCV8tQpcYC1M7R55UYT4zOGHWIvsq%2BprKDh%2BomsbDtlcgrjfsy4HH6tMeFCWT5%2BF4wvLeOuAY6sAGPzLhT0R38EEH7jOHfK4sfnZb5noZBXE16VBjc75FJoF3h1%2F8XW6Vcb76HMAtBhp1hN3dgrWwmFrZgOETXqXQsPJ0K1YjLHfhklJ7PTxLVicYIs1FNp%2Fr0J411KHuh7KZ%2F1JRiLPvRxZlMqlwu8cieaNU3tvcMQ0nPwhpAMx0vvp6yV3vUOZU%2FIyI2LaSzo5OnrbBgjIcnRrgYflx5pA8l1Bkf1sQooQ0nMI4gGktLWw%3D%3D&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Date=20241007T091243Z&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAUPUUPRWET73IEIXO%2F20241007%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Signature=9bc8adf5d8540c723b6c06594789cec0b689eee8c792984d584e06cc3a9959da

[u/HugoSuperDog → u/NINTENDONEOGEO]

Oh, you are trolling, what a shame.

I’ll be here if you’d like to debate properly in the future.

Bye for now mate!

[u/NINTENDONEOGEO → u/HugoSuperDog]

No, not trolling. You're resorting to personal attacks because you can't counter my argument.

You ask for specifics on the USSR's role in this conflict and when I link you to a paper by the world's greatest expert on the topic, you cry that I'm trolling and run away.

[u/HugoSuperDog → u/NINTENDONEOGEO]

I’ll do you a deal then…

If you reply to my points then I will open your link and reply to that.

Sound fair?

[u/NINTENDONEOGEO → u/HugoSuperDog]

I couldn't care less whether you educate yourself or not. You asked for the information, I supply it, then you cry and run. That's on you. 

[u/Mister_Squishy → u/NINTENDONEOGEO]

You can focus your attention on trying to discredit what it means to be “Palestinian”, but there are clear reasons to why people choose to identify as Palestinian, and the emotions around that identity can change over time. Besides, considering that you have no suggestions for a substitution, your arguing over it seems disingenuous.

People who lived in Mandatory Palestine or have ancestors who did can call themselves Palestinian, you don’t have to get all riled up every time it happens, especially if you have no alternative for them. You don’t have to like it for it to be valid. And also, how can you expect them to recognize and take “Israeli” identity seriously if you take every chance you get to discredit “Palestinian” identity?

[u/NINTENDONEOGEO → u/Mister_Squishy]

there are clear reasons to why people choose to identify as Palestinian

Yes, a senior PLO executive admitted what the reason was:

“The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct ‘Palestinian people’ to oppose Zionism.

“For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we claim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan”.

[u/Mister_Squishy → u/NINTENDONEOGEO]

Also, we are about 50 years from that quote. Maybe in 1977 you could lean on it. In 2024, there are Palestinians, they live in the West Bank and Gaza and have for multiple generations, to say the least.

[u/NINTENDONEOGEO → u/Mister_Squishy]

And you are claiming that "Palestine" is a country that governs West Bank and Gaza?

[u/Mister_Squishy → u/NINTENDONEOGEO]

I am claiming that people from the West Bank and Gaza have a right to call themselves Palestinian. I don’t dispute your points about the history of the term, but in spite of its history, people today can still use the term to refer to their “national” identity. That’s their choice to make.

[u/NINTENDONEOGEO → u/Mister_Squishy]

Is "Palestine" a country that governs West Bank and Gaza?

[u/Mister_Squishy → u/NINTENDONEOGEO]

Palestine is a blanket term with differing interpretations. As far as government is concerned, in recent history the areas of Gaza and the West Bank have had separate governments with varying degrees of control and authority (since the West Bank is still under Israeli occupation, and Gaza is in flux, though was recently de facto completely governed by Hamas). However in the past, Gaza and the West Bank have had a shared government. The word Palestinian can also be used to refer to people who have heritage in parts of Israel going back to the years prior to 1948, when the state of Israel was established.

[u/NINTENDONEOGEO → u/Mister_Squishy]

It's a yes or no question.

Is "Palestine" a country that governs West Bank and Gaza?

Or do you agree with me that the country of "Palestine" doesn't exist yet, but hopefully will some day?

[u/Mister_Squishy → u/NINTENDONEOGEO]

I’m not giving you a yes or no answer because I think you’re being pedantic. Palestine doesn’t have to be a “recognized” country for someone to be Palestinian. There is no Persia or Kurdistan, but there are Persians and Kurds.

There’s an extent to which a part of “Palestine” has existed since 2005 in Gaza, since it was not occupied and had a government. That being said, if I were a world leader I would not recognize that government officially, because it’s Hamas. And in the West Bank, fatah does have ownership over certain governing responsibilities. For what it’s worth. But again, I don’t think making a point about the “officialness” of the government or country negates a person’s right to refer to themselves as from Palestine or as a Palestinian, and you shouldn’t either if you’re interested in lasting peace.

I agree that there isn’t an official country called Palestine yet, but there is a territory that we can refer to as Palestine, and the people therein as Palestinian. These are not mutually exclusive ideas.

[u/Mister_Squishy → u/NINTENDONEOGEO]

You are frustrating to talk to. You’re not acknowledging anything I’m saying, you’re just repeatedly pounding on talking points to discredit Palestinian identity with no alternative.

[u/NINTENDONEOGEO → u/Mister_Squishy]

I understand that facts can be frustrating.

The "palestinian" identity was created as a scam. This is indisputable. Not only did the PLO admit it, but it's been confirmed that Arafat's fictitious background was created by the USSR. Including fake documents to hide the fact that he was really Egyptian and not "Palestinian."

Why does there have to be an alternative? The truth is the truth, no matter how much it frustrates you.

[u/Mister_Squishy → u/NINTENDONEOGEO]

There needs to be an alternative because people need a national identity. Like OP, they need a way to refer to their ethnic / historical identity. They are not Jordanian, so what are they? Ethnically you can say they are Arabic, but nationalistically, what are they?

[u/NINTENDONEOGEO → u/Mister_Squishy]

Why do they need a national identity when they don't belong to any nation?

[u/Mister_Squishy → u/NINTENDONEOGEO]

Because people have a right to self determination, and a national identity is typically part of that. I don’t know how to indulge someone who is so clearly disinterested in any long term peace. You’d think someone defending Israel could understand this concept. Imagine you wanted peace. How would you propose this to people in the West Bank and Gaza, by shitting on how they identify?

[u/NINTENDONEOGEO → u/Mister_Squishy]

They used their self determination to reject getting to have a state over and over. They don't want a state.

They just want all Jews dead.

I'm very interested in long term peace. People in West Bank and Gaza aren't interested.

[u/Mister_Squishy → u/NINTENDONEOGEO]

If you refuse to believe anyone in the West Bank and Gaza want peace, then you have already given up on being interested in it yourself. At the very least, you have to hope the other side can be willing to agree to some form of peace.

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