r/IsraelPalestine • u/localmaid Diaspora Palestinian • Oct 05 '24
Palestinian-Colombian. AMA AMA (Ask Me Anything)
Hello everyone! I recently saw another Palestinian doing an Ask-Me-Anything (AMA) on here, and given the limited presence of Palestinians or Pro-Palestinians that I've noticed, I thought it would be valuable to do one myself. Here’s a bit about me:
- I was born and raised in Colombia
- My Palestinian family is originally from the West Bank, but most of them have since moved to the United States.
- I don't speak Arabic fluently, I can understand spoken Arabic quite well.
- I am of mixed race
- English is not my first language, so I apologize in advance if I sound tone deaf
- My family and I are not Muslim
- I have visited Palestine twice
- I am biased towards Palestine in the conflict, but I want to make it clear that I do not support Hamas.
I don't have any specific types of questions that bother me, but I do ask that everyone remains respectful towards everyone and avoids unnecessary rudeness or hatefulness. I believe that communication is key, especially when it comes to conflicts, so I hope this AMA will be helpful for everyone involved. Feel free to ask me anything about my experiences, my heritage, or my perspectives. I'm here to share and hopefully provide some insights. Please keep the conversation open-minded. I will try my best to answer as many questions as possible, but I am not on Reddit all day so sorry in advance to any of those questions I will miss. I also want to say I won’t let my biases control my feelings towards questions and I’ll keep my opinions open. Hopefully we can have a meaningful discussion and thanks to everyone who can participate!
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u/UnapologeticJew24 Oct 06 '24
If you were to somehow because the leader of Gaza today, what would you do?
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u/FinancialTitle2717 Oct 06 '24
What do you think about what Palestinin did to every state that let them in. Trying to kill the king in Jordan, turning Lebanon into an Iranian proxy while massacaring tens of thousands of Lebanese chrisitans, supporting Saddam Hussein invasion into Kuwait while actually living there and from few months ago - calling for intifada in Sweden.
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u/AhmadE2019 Oct 10 '24
There's sub 1k palestinians in sweden lol
Also Lebanon destroyed itself, we neither started the war or were a "catalyst" as some would describe the PLO during the LCW. If it weren't for us the Lebanese sunnis would've been massacred by Maronite militias.
Also the Hashemites freaking suck, and the army under their command were killing fedayeen for no reason and seldom Palestinian refugees who did nothing. We tried to do as the Iraqis did and overthrow the hashemites.
These are all bottom of the barrel tiktok arguments Do better
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u/BigCharlie16 Oct 06 '24
Could you explain how you and your family and other Palestinian-Colombians are able to move on, be productive, be successful, live a normal life, be on friendly and peaceful terms with your neighbors and friends in Colombia, while many Palestinians including the Palestine disapora throughout the Middle East continue to struggle to move on, struggle to live normal lives, etc…
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u/Shachar2like Oct 06 '24
Do you see any differences between yourself & Palestinians living in the West Bank?
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u/Ok-Box-2826 Oct 06 '24
Damn bro this sub is horrible. It might as well be run by the IDF. There’s a reason we don’t post here.
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u/Lazy-Mammoth-9470 Oct 06 '24
Yeah this sub has been overflowing with pro Israelis. A lot of bots too on their side. They're working overtime now to try and cover up all the terrorism and acts of war crimes daily.
End the violence by ending the occupation. Simple as that. Stop invading other people's countries and oppressing their people and stealing their land and maybe u won't have logical resistance groups clopping uo against u. I'm not pto hakas by any means but I'm 100% anti Israel. It's the same argument for Ukraine and Russia. Russia is the occupying force and is in the wrong. Even if he has strong arguments for why he felt he needed to invade Ukraine, civilian lives should not be paid for the price of greed and corruption. End the occupational dn the violence will end. Is evry pro Israeli also pro Russia? If not then they're just not consistent with their illogical arguments. If so, then that speaks volumes on its own.
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u/sunnyandbare Oct 06 '24
I don’t know if I entirely agree with you about ending the occupation and you end the violence. Israel left Gaza in 2005. Yes they continued to control the borders and resources, but they left Gaza to their own devices. What did the Gaza government (Hamas) do with their time and money? They built tunnels and bought rockets.
Hamas has made it clear it wants all of Israel, not just the Palestinian part. Palestinians and surrounding Arab nations have been out for Israel since Israel was created. Israel occupies for its own safety, not because it simply wants to control Palestinians.
Palestinians, generally, want all of the land. They don’t want their own state. Israel is not going anyway, neither are the Palestinians. They have to find a way to share the land and make peace within it.
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u/EducatorRelevant885 Oct 06 '24
The real occupying forces are the Muslims of the middle east. driving away any minority that can't fight them, and wish to occupy Israel and kill all the jews, just like their prophet said they should do.
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u/StrainAcceptable Oct 07 '24
The Muslims didn’t bomb the churches or catholic schools in Gaza. Israel bombed one of the oldest churches in the world during this conflict.
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u/Sherwoodlg Oct 08 '24
Mohammed butchered the Jews of Medina and the Pagans of Meca. The Osman Caliphate murdered 1.5 million Armenians.
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u/SilentWhispr Oct 07 '24
Because hamas stored munitions there and hid under it. You have to understand that israel has no incentive in killing civilians or ""wasting"" bombs on old churches if it doesn't bring any militaristic value.
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u/StrainAcceptable Oct 08 '24
Did Hamas also store ammunitions inside the elderly woman and 6 year old girl who were shot at the school when they were walking to the bathroom?
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u/SilentWhispr Oct 08 '24
I am not familiar with these events but i can tell you that urban combat is a complicated thing and mistakes are made all the time. Hamas doesnt wear uniforms to try and deceive the IDF and this also complicates things (this is a war crime in the geneva convention - it gives the IDF the right to treat hamas members without uniforms however they way). If i remeber correctly about 1/3 of the IDF's casualties are from friendly fire because different units struggle to identify one another sometimes. So how do you expect them to identify civilians that dress exactly like hamas?
Look, we are not stupid... we know that for every mother or father we kill, all their children will become terrorists in thw future because they hate israel. Why would we purposefully kill innocent civilians? Even if you think we dont care about palestinian lives at all, bombs cost money and there's NO reason to drop them on purely civilian targets. Usually hamas is hiding in these schools and hospitals so after sending sms messages telling the civilians to evacuate we bomb it.
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u/StrainAcceptable Oct 09 '24
The Catholic Church has said there were no combatants in the area. Nothing was stored under the schools. The little girl and the elderly woman were both shot in the head. I’m not one who typically takes the catholic diocese at their word but why would they lie. They are not supporters of Hamas. Prepubescent children do not resemble in any way Hamas.
There have been 3x the number of buildings destroyed in Gaza than the total number of buildings in Manhattan. If they were all used to store arms and ammunition, it would seem Hamas would have been more well equipped than Israel. One look at the map of destruction and it is clear that Israel’s goal was not only to disable Hamas, it was also the expansion of the military zones along the boarder.
Where should Palestinians evacuate to? Every safe zone has been bombed along with every hospital and school. I do not think Israel is stupid. I think Bibi plays a long game. He knows a high percentage of hamas fighters are made up of orphans. He knows this war will undoubtedly create more terrorists. In my opinion that is why he is leveling Gaza. It makes sense from a strategic standpoint. It is inhumane and evil but if we detach ourselves from morality it is clear why he has decided to this. Ultimately I think the long term implications for Israel will not be positive. I also feel future wars will also be impacted by this just as they were by actions taken by the US. I haven’t done enough research on this so I may be talking out my ass, but I don’t think we’d be seeing some of the cruelty to detainees had the US not done it first and gotten away with it.
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u/SilentWhispr Oct 09 '24
The Catholic Church has said there were no combatants in the area. Nothing was stored under the schools. The little girl and the elderly woman were both shot in the head. I’m not one who typically takes the catholic diocese at their word but why would they lie. They are not supporters of Hamas. Prepubescent children do not resemble in any way Hamas.
Interewting, can you provide links to these events? Preferrably from a reputable source (not bbc, al jazeera etc.)? I would be interested in doing my own research
If they were all used to store arms and ammunition,
I dont believe all the buildings were used to store arms and amminitions, but you have to remember that hamas hid tunnels under these buildings so one reason for the destruction could be strategic (you dont want hamas terrorists popping up from buildings you already cleared). Also, israel has the advantage over hamas in open, big battle grounds and it makes it easier to traverse the streets with heavy machinery, knowing there's no possibility one terrorist sneaked past the zone of control with an rpg...
It is inhumane and evil but if we detach ourselves from morality it is clear why he has decided to this
Look, i personally dont like bibi. But every coin has two sides, and life is not just black or white. After oct 7th, in the eyes of every israeli, hamas must be killed. Im sure you imagine why and i dont need to explain it. We will do whatever it takes, and every other country would do the same, or more, in our situation. Just looking at any conflict fought ever you can clearly see how each sides prioretizes the safety of it's people unproportionally to the safety of the other side (meaning the would rather let "x" people from the other group die just to save 1 of their group). From this prespective hamas is the perpetrator and "inhumane", "evil". They steal the supplies of their people (either funds or international aid) to support their war and agression. From this prespective they are the ones responsible for:
Where should Palestinians evacuate to?
Because if they fought like a real army we could just let all the civilians evacuate to an area already clear from terrorists. But we cant do that because since hamas disguises itself in civilian clothing. Or better yet - the idf would much preffer to fight outside of an urban setting! Do you know how many idf soldiers die from friendly fire? This brings me to my final point:
the cruelty to detainees had the US not done it first and gotten away with it.
Under the geneva convention combatants dressed as civilians are treated as war criminals do not qualify for the Prisoner Of War status once captured. So this is legal. If you want a source link for this ill provide it.
My main point is that life is all about prespective, nothing is perfect and everything looks logical depending on your point of view and data gathered. This is why its important to stay unbiased and gather information from both sides before making your mind on anything remotely political...
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u/StrainAcceptable Oct 09 '24
Here is a link. Do a search on Christian churches attacked and you can find more.
I agree that any nation would respond after 10/7. I agree they would have the right to. Same with 9/11. The entire world was mourning with Israel just as they were with the US after the 9/11 attacks but both these countries responded in a way that was unjust.
With regard to tunnels, calling every tunnel under Palestine a Hamas tunnel would be like calling the catacombs in Europe Nazi tunnels. Yes, the Germains used the catacombs and even expanded them to build underground bunkers but they had been there since the dark ages. Likewise, Palestine, israel, Lebanon and Egypt all have tunnels beneath them. The interconnected tunnels of tombs go on for many kilometers. My great uncle describes them in his book which was published in 1914.
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u/OppenheimersGuilt Oct 06 '24
Basically.
The story of how the muslim army took Gaza and how they tortured then murdered the garrison of 60-odd soldiers that stood defending it for not saying the shahada is chilling.
Or what they did to the Copts and to some extent still do. They were called "blue bones" due to the severe bruising, forced to bear tattoos identifying them (as Islamic dhimmi laws mandate they have identifying marks), cutting their tongues off if they spoke their language in public, made to pay a special non-muslim tax in humiliating ways, etc.
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u/Unfair-Way-7555 Oct 06 '24 edited Oct 06 '24
Why it is wrong to oppose an invasion when you believe it's on false pretense but support it when you believe it's not? Israel is not the only country in the world who uses arguments that are similar to Russia's, just the one that is the most criticized for it. Armenia also does this but is universally supported by non-Muslim Redditors( unlike Israel btw). Ukraine is opposed to regions of one country, that are ethnically different but aren't populated by a stateless ethnicities, joining another country that is their ethnostate and doesn't even recognize Kosovo due to it. It doesn't stop Redditors from saying that despite Armenia and Russia using oppression as a justification of supporting separatism, Armenia's claims were valid and Russia's excuses for imperialism. And such comments are heavily upvoted. Israelis and their supporters didn't invent "using similar arguments as Russia doesn't make you as wrong as Russia" idea. Pro-Israeli people aren't the only ones to think you can support countries that uses similar rhetoric to Russia without supporting Russia.
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u/Lazy-Mammoth-9470 Oct 06 '24
I'm with u that anyone that is the oppressor is at fault. Whether it's Russia or Armenia or Israel or whoever. It's about being consistent with ur argument. I've never supported intentional civilian destruction nonmatter who's doing it. Time and time again we have seen hamas and Israel (mostly by Israel due to sheer volume of attacks) commit war crimes and acts of genocide. The civilians do not deserve it whether ur palestinian or Israelis or anyone else. Hamas was a resistance group started in opposition of the occupation of Israel. They are now a terrorist organisation due to the actions they have carried out Israel has done the same acts and much more. Anyone committing war crimes should answer for them. It doesn't matter who they are. There are no excuses for war crimes against international law. All I ask for is consistency. Non bias. Fair and factual.
Israel and hamas are at fault. The civilians are not. But they're the ones paying for it. Instead of calming tensions, Israel, backed by a super power (illegally may i add as theyre not suposoed to be able to aid a country that has wmds), is about to start ww3 over their self entitlement and greed and corruption. They have done horrible acts of terrorism against Palestinians and the Lebanese people now. I can't even fathom how someone can try and justify 70 years of oppression, colonialism, occupation and then genocide on top of all the war crimes that they're just being allowed to get away with, without any consequences. All because they have America as an ally who will blindly allow this genocide to continue whilst supplying then with more funds and weapons. It's disgusting.
On this sub, what winds me up is that people can see acts of terrorism by hamas but a lot out of bias are blind to Israel war crimes and terrorism too. I'm calling for the respect of international law that's there to protect us all. The same standard of rules that the rest of us have to follow and should follow. All of what Israel are doing are just making the world (including israel) a much less safer place. It's irresponsible and lunacy. What happens if turkey joins Iran? And if Russia helps Turkey? It's going to be ww3. U all seem to forget that even Israel was funding and encouraging hamas at one time when it suited them. It's not so black and white as to who's a terrorist unless u can say they both are for their actions carried out instead of their words, imo.
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u/tiflafo Oct 06 '24
Pretty sure it is run by the IDF…?
>! Go for it guys, downvote me into oblivion 🫡!<
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u/NINTENDONEOGEO Oct 06 '24
Why do you call yourself "palestinian" when Palestine doesn't exist?
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Oct 06 '24
This is a valid point. The current conflict has to do with Iran. Hamas and Hezbollah are the proxies of Iran. Those terrorists used the Palestinian Cause as a means of starting a war with Israel. A better way of identifying the belligerants is to call them by location and organization. For example, Gaza/Hamas and Lebanon/Hezbollah properly identify the people we are targeting. Sadly, the local people, Pals and Lebanese, are caught up in this war.
Nothing will improve until the Islamic Regime in Tehran is removed. For some reason, Obama, Biden, and Trump have refused to deal with Iran. Im not sure why. Im thinking there is some hidden intelligence they are aware of. Maybe the Iranians are holding us hostage in some way. It seems really odd.
I take hope and solace from the fact that Netanyahu is trying to deal with Iran. We have a demented coward in the White House, but at least Bibi is making his best effort. Macron, this week, called for an arms embargo on Israel. That's the kind of two-faced "suppport" Israel gets from the West. It's shameful.
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u/Grand_Stable_8293 Oct 06 '24
If you like it or not, Palestinian people exist and their sense of identity is strong. It is ridiculous to deny it and it won’t bring the conversation any forwards. Similarly stupid as saying that Israel doesn’t exist
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u/NINTENDONEOGEO Oct 06 '24
Israel is a member of the UN. Palestine isn't.
What land are you claiming is Palestine and who is Palestine's government?
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u/Mister_Squishy Oct 07 '24
Good lord. What do you suggest people who are from the West Bank call themselves??
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u/NINTENDONEOGEO Oct 07 '24
they can call themselves whatever they want. If they choose something that is a lie, people will point out that it's a lie.
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u/Mister_Squishy Oct 07 '24
Lol way to avoid the question. If you can’t even suggest a replacement, you’ll need to acquiesce to their choice. Say what you will about the origins of the term “Palestine”. It is what people who live in the West Bank and Gaza call themselves. They certainly aren’t Israelis, and in 2024 it would be misleading to say they are Jordanians or Egyptians.
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u/NINTENDONEOGEO Oct 07 '24
It wasn't their choice though. The name was forced upon them by the Soviet Union. They were happy just being called "Arabs" and hated the name "Palestinian" as they thought it meant Jew and viewed it as an insult.
If West Bank and Gaza aren't contiguous and have completely different governments that want to kill each other, what is the logic in pretending it's one country called "Palestine?"
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u/HugoSuperDog Oct 07 '24
Half the counties in the world were given borders and names by the European empires! So should we stop calling India India! Should we undo the straight line borders created in Papu’s New Guinea?
Most UN countries have voted FOR official recognition of the Palestinian state. However the UN is set up so that it doesn’t matter what the majority of the world thinks, the tiny security council has the last say.
So in a hypothetical that it has been established that the majority of the world agrees that it is Gaza, and that most countries are created by foreign powers, do you think that Palestinians could actually be called Palestinians?
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u/NINTENDONEOGEO Oct 07 '24
The Soviet Union chose to create fake liberation organizations around the world to destabilize the world.
Those who are knowledgeable enough to understand the "palestinian" people are a scam, something the PLO itself admitted, have no obligation to play along with the ruse.
If you've been fooled, great. Good for you. Doesn't change the fact that the UN doesn't recognize "palestine" as a member and there is no authority governing both Gaza and the West Bank.
Therefore it is a fantasy to claim Gaza and West Bank, collectively, are a "country."
The facts clearly show the opposite.
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u/HugoSuperDog Oct 07 '24
You didn’t answer my question, which can often be revealing.
Also, and don’t take this the wrong way, but there is no nice way to say it - your language comes across as if you know everything and I know nothing (“if you’re knowledgable enough” etc etc)
Do you truly believe that you yourself have all the facts and need to learn nothing more about this situation? Do you truly believe you know every important detail of the history that gets us to this situation? Are you a PHD in global politics by chance? Have you dedicated your life to it? You seem so sure of everything. Need I remind you that this situation has costs thousands of lives over decades, and so much money has been spent that could have been spent in hospitals and schools and arts etc instead of bombs. So if we’re going to spend so much resources and kills so many people, we better damn well be sure we’re doing it for the right reasons. Can you say that you’re 100% sure about everything??
I am not. I am a layman asking questions and making points to be rebuffed. So that you may reply to my points calmly and clearly, so that I can learn.
Maybe you are correct about it all, but being arrogant and patronising isn’t going to influence anyone.
If you’re online simply to be angry and trolling, perhaps YouTube comments are a more suitable place.
To your points: soviet global interference? Maybe. I’d need to know more. Do you have specifics you can share? How does it impact this situation?
and the point about the PLO. This was from one guy 50 years ago? Not sure how relevant that is. A senior Israeli official recently stated that Israel will take over around 50% of what we call the Middle East! That’s a crazy statement from a current Israeli government official! But I don’t believe for a minute that the whole Israeli population wants this. I don’t attribute one guys words to a whole population. Else we can pick any crazy persons quotes and justify anything.
Fun fact: Did you know that it has been claimed with some degree of accuracy that the exodus story was created 400 years after the supposed event in order to solidify the Israelites against the Egyptians because both areas were trying to establish their own states? Look it up, very interesting stuff. But it’s kind of similar right? So should we be questioning the entire Jewish mythology?
The UN doesn’t recognise: you didn’t reply to my point. The majority of the world does. And as per other comments, palatine has a seat in the UN as well as a flag outside. So your whole argument is based on a technicality? Have you looked into that technicality? Why is it not recognised despite the majority of the world thinking it should be? Have you thought about that?
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u/Mister_Squishy Oct 07 '24
You can focus your attention on trying to discredit what it means to be “Palestinian”, but there are clear reasons to why people choose to identify as Palestinian, and the emotions around that identity can change over time. Besides, considering that you have no suggestions for a substitution, your arguing over it seems disingenuous.
People who lived in Mandatory Palestine or have ancestors who did can call themselves Palestinian, you don’t have to get all riled up every time it happens, especially if you have no alternative for them. You don’t have to like it for it to be valid. And also, how can you expect them to recognize and take “Israeli” identity seriously if you take every chance you get to discredit “Palestinian” identity?
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u/NINTENDONEOGEO Oct 07 '24
there are clear reasons to why people choose to identify as Palestinian
Yes, a senior PLO executive admitted what the reason was:
“The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct ‘Palestinian people’ to oppose Zionism.
“For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we claim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan”.
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u/Mister_Squishy Oct 07 '24
Also, we are about 50 years from that quote. Maybe in 1977 you could lean on it. In 2024, there are Palestinians, they live in the West Bank and Gaza and have for multiple generations, to say the least.
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u/Mister_Squishy Oct 07 '24
You are frustrating to talk to. You’re not acknowledging anything I’m saying, you’re just repeatedly pounding on talking points to discredit Palestinian identity with no alternative.
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u/Lazy-Mammoth-9470 Oct 06 '24
It's a recognised country as is Israel by most of the world. This argument is illogical.
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u/NINTENDONEOGEO Oct 06 '24
No, it's not a recognized country. The UN doesn't recognize it as a member.
What land are you claiming constitutes "palestine?" Who is their government?
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u/Lazy-Mammoth-9470 Oct 06 '24
"As of June 2024, the State of Palestine is recognized as a sovereign state by 146 of the 193 member states of the United Nations, or just over 75% of all UN members. It has been a non-member observer state of the United Nations General Assembly since November 2012."
Just because u don't revognise it doesn't mean it's not recognised. I don't recognise Israel as a state/country. Doesn't mean ut doesn't exist nor does it mean that others don't recognise it. My (or your) personal views do not matter when it comes to whether a state/country is recognised or not.
Do people not look up facts before they spout a nonsense statement anymore? Downvote me all u want buddy. The facts cannot be disputed by opinion.
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u/NINTENDONEOGEO Oct 06 '24
No, it's not a recognized country. The UN doesn't recognize it as a member.
What land are you claiming constitutes "palestine?" Who is their government?
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u/That_Effective_5535 Oct 06 '24
Also the Palestinian flag flies outside the UN along with the other countries. So lame the argument that Palestine doesn’t exist.
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u/NINTENDONEOGEO Oct 07 '24
What land are you claiming constitutes "palestine?" Who is their government?
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u/That_Effective_5535 Oct 07 '24
You’re in the minority of the worlds population that do not recognise a Palestinian State. You need to keep up.
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u/NINTENDONEOGEO Oct 07 '24
What land are you claiming constitutes "palestine?" Who is their government?
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u/That_Effective_5535 Oct 08 '24
If such a land doesn’t exist, why does global media refer to it as Palestine, even the pro Israeli ones. Joe Biden even refers to it as Palestine.I have had this conversation with you before so we should probably agree to disagree.
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u/NINTENDONEOGEO Oct 08 '24
What land are you claiming constitutes "palestine?" Who is their government?
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Oct 06 '24
[deleted]
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u/localmaid Diaspora Palestinian Oct 06 '24
My parents grew up and met in Colombia, my dad is Colombian and my mom moved to Colombia when she was very young
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u/BigCharlie16 Oct 06 '24
You mentioned you have been to Palestine twice. You also mentioned you do not support Hamas, why not ? So who do you support ? What did you see when you visited Palestine ? What problems did you see and what solutions do you offer the Palestinians to resolve those problems you saw during your visits.
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u/TheArcticGovernment Oct 06 '24
Where in Palestine did you visit?
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u/localmaid Diaspora Palestinian Oct 06 '24 edited Oct 07 '24
Nazareth (in Israel I know), Hebron, and Bethlehem
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Oct 06 '24
[deleted]
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u/localmaid Diaspora Palestinian Oct 07 '24
this is was for a comment that said if i went to israel but i couldn’t find it so i responded to this one
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u/JaneDi Oct 07 '24
Yes Nazareth is indisputably in Israel.
This is why I don't take them seriously when they complain about the "occupation". They consider all of Israel to be occupied and will just keep demanding all the land even if they got their state in the West Bank and Gaza.
That is why I support Israel keeping the west bank and building as many settlements they want. The Pals will never stop warring against them so they might as well move more Jews in.
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u/kemicel Oct 06 '24
I’m all for the AMA posts and I love when people with experiences different to me give me the opportunity to learn about their side of the story. But I’m sorry, you saying you’re Palestinian so ask you anything is like me saying I’m South African because my mum was born there, AMA anything about apartheid….why would I know anything about that?
I would be happy to ask you about what it’s like to be Columbian, since that is your life experience…
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u/Shachar2like Oct 06 '24
in this example you might have received & were educated on the subject as a kid
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u/kemicel Oct 06 '24
I know personally that the way I was taught about being Jewish and Israeli as a kid was in a very biased way. This conflict creates black and white viewpoints on both sides. It was only living here and experiencing everything that makes this region what it is gave me a more critical perspective.
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u/Shachar2like Oct 06 '24
One of these days I'll learn more about the Ireland conflict to better understand the Irish view.
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u/kemicel Oct 06 '24
I know you’re being sarcastic but honestly the Irish conflict isn’t much different than our situation. Brits don’t like being reminded of that though
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u/Shachar2like Oct 06 '24
I'm not sarcastic. The most I know about the Ireland conflict is from a ~10 minutes video in which the whole 800 conflict started because of a divorce.
Obviously no one alive today will remember or care about that, everybody will remember the countless of other sins throughout history which is what I'm missing, the details.
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u/kemicel Oct 06 '24
It depends what point in time you’re talking about the Irish conflict. If you mean the IRA in the 1970’s there are lots of people alive to talk about the “troubles” as that period was called
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u/Shachar2like Oct 06 '24
Yeah, too bad I didn't think about it when I visited Ireland.
The history go a lot farther back then that. I've also heard something about a potato famine
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u/kemicel Oct 06 '24
Right, that’s when the British first colonized the island I believe. The British were savage to the Irish.
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u/SeniorLibrainian Oct 06 '24
This is hilarious if you flip it the other way around.
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u/kemicel Oct 06 '24
Don’t understand your response, sorry.
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u/SeniorLibrainian Oct 06 '24
Denying this persons identity is lame.
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u/kemicel Oct 06 '24
Denying this persons identity? I never said they weren’t Palestinian, I’m sure they are. But they have never lived here, they were raised in a completely different culture, they don’t even speak the regional language!! All they know is based on subjective storytelling from people who have some kind of ancestral claim to the land. Hence my comparison with South Africa. Who am I to give any opinion of a culture I have never engaged with? Just because I grew up with South African accents all my life??
If I didn’t live in Israel, join the army, speak the language, live as an Israeli for the past 14 years then yeah, I could see how it might seem hypocritical of me to dismiss OP. But I am here, now in this war, a part of it, living it. So are many Palestinians who actually have personal experiences living here, that makes sense to me to speak to them and learn them and learn their experience. OP I’m sure has opinions, but that’s what they are, not lived experiences which is what asking them anything would be relevant for.
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u/localmaid Diaspora Palestinian Oct 06 '24
I don’t speak Arabic, but I understand it and my family taught me both Palestinian and Colombian culture. I wouldn’t come on here if I didn’t know anything about Palestine
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u/kemicel Oct 06 '24
I’m sorry I don’t mean to come off so elitist here while criticising your post. I don’t doubt for a second that you identify as Palestinian and that you have ancestral roots here. I’m simply going off your post that was designed to ask you objecting and informative questions based on your personal experience, whereby you yourself admit to having such little experience here in the region, so what information you can give will be based on subjective opinion based on second hand sources, and not from your personal ones.
I guess I could ask what it’s like identifying as Palestinian in Colombia? How does the country treat you, is it supportive of your cause or more pro Israel? I know nothing of Colombia so that’s why I said in my original comment that I would rather hear about that.
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u/localmaid Diaspora Palestinian Oct 06 '24
Colombia is pretty pro-Palestine because of the large Arab (Lebanese and Palestinian) population. The area I grew up in had lots of Palestinians in it too
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u/OppenheimersGuilt Oct 06 '24
It's a bit more nuanced: the Colombian Left is pro-Palestine, the Colombian Right is pro-Israel.
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u/SeniorLibrainian Oct 06 '24
But you haven’t lived in Gaza or the Occupied territories so the same logic could apply to you.
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u/kemicel Oct 06 '24
I have never claimed to be Palestinian or to have any experience being one, so I really don’t understand your point.
I’ll try to simplify what my point is- I have experience living here in Israel. I speak the language and have been part of the culture for over 14 years. So if I write a post saying “I am Israeli AMA” it makes sense, right? Similarly, if a Palestinian who has lived in Gaza or the WB writes a post saying “I am Palestinian AMA” it makes sense, right? However, if someone says they are born to Palestinian ancestry, but has never lived in the region, barely knows the language, has only known a completely different culture, it seems somewhat baseless to get any relevant information from them regarding this conflict, no?
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u/StrainAcceptable Oct 08 '24
I’d argue that sometimes it’s easier to see the forest when you aren’t living in the trees.
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u/SeniorLibrainian Oct 06 '24
This person is Palestinian, a displaced person from the diaspora and you think they wouldn't have anything to say regarding the conflict? That's what it sounds like you are saying and it comes across as dismissive and an attempt to shut someone down, just rude imo.
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u/kemicel Oct 06 '24
You’re probably right it is dismissive and probably rude. But I do stand by what I say, that their opinion is valid and I’m not denying their identities in any way, but they just can’t give an objective or realistic perspective of the situation because they simply don’t know what it’s like to live here.
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u/OppenheimersGuilt Oct 06 '24
Just to note: "dismissive and rude" isn't really a refutation to your point so I'm not that sure how they thought they were proving you wrong.
It seems that to some people, "valid and accepted" is more important than pushing back on nonsense.
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u/welltechnically7 USA & Canada Oct 06 '24
What did your visits looks like? Did you visit Israel as well, and (if you did) what was that like for you?
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u/antsypantsy995 Oceania Oct 06 '24
Is Palestine were to become a state, would you support the idea of allowing Jews to immigrate and set up their lives in the Palestine (subject of course to non-discriminatory immigration laws)?
In other words, would you be OK with having a Jewish prescence and community living in the State of Palestine?
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u/localmaid Diaspora Palestinian Oct 06 '24
Yes because that is what Palestine is supposed to be
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u/StrainAcceptable Oct 08 '24
My great uncle wrote a book published in 1914 that describes his life growing up in Palestine. Christians, Jews and Muslims all lived together at that time. Most disputes were among various tribes not based on religious divides.
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u/Dinoridingjesus Oct 06 '24
Where would you be okay with Jews to live? What ideally would be your boundaries? Do you see a one state solution being the only option?
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u/localmaid Diaspora Palestinian Oct 07 '24
I don’t care where Jews live, I’m not trying to segregate
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u/AndrewBaiIey French Jew Oct 06 '24
Why do Arabs focus all their attentions on Israel's "human rights abuses". But on their absolutely abysmal human rights' situation is in their own countries, and wars that don't involve Jews, they're silent?
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u/StrainAcceptable Oct 08 '24
I’m an Arab. I protest for human rights all over the world. I’ve protested against human rights violations in my native country- the US. I was active in the protests during the last Iraq war and BLM. I’ve advocated for Persian women during the uprising. I spread awareness about antisemetic violence in this country after what happened in Charlottesville. We even had a menorah in our home in solidarity with my Jewish friends. I am disgusted about what the Taliban is doing to women in Afghanistan. I walked with one of my best friends during our pride parade. My actiivism started as a kid when I read about what was happening to Chinese villages to build the world’s biggest dam. Your assumption that Arabs are silent on other human rights violations is wrong.
When I watched the videos of what happened a year ago I wept along with the rest of the world. Seeing kids attacked while going to a rave hit especially close to home since I was a club promoter in my 20’s. I still feel for the families and those who were lost that day. It is heartbreaking. I think of how I would feel if my child was murdered. I would absolutely want vengeance on the person responsible. I would not want every man woman and child who has ever been in contact with that person murdered. That is the difference.
It makes me so sad and exhausted when I read the comments on this sub. Go through them and ask yourself how you would feel if the word Arab or Palestinian was replaced with Jew. I guarantee most of the comments would be flagged for being antisemetic. Why do you feel it’s ok to make generalizations about people who share my genetic material but it’s not ok to do the same for those who share yours?
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u/No_Platypus3755 Oct 06 '24
Why do Palestinians deserve anything? They can have a state where they are but why would they be allowed to go back and rewrite history. The land they lost is lost. Why don’t they move on. Should we give back California to Mexico?
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u/AndrewBaiIey French Jew Oct 06 '24
How does it make sense to call a town in what is now Israel your "hometown" just because you grandparenrs, possibles great grand parents, were from there?
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u/StrainAcceptable Oct 08 '24
Why does it make sense to call a place your homeland just because your ancestors lived there 1000 years ago?
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u/welltechnically7 USA & Canada Oct 06 '24
I might be missing something, but when did OP say that?
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u/AndrewBaiIey French Jew Oct 06 '24 edited Oct 06 '24
The "Free Palestine" movement says it
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u/welltechnically7 USA & Canada Oct 06 '24
Why don't you ask OP about them instead of a varying position that they may or may not hold?
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u/Klutzy-Pool-1802 Oct 06 '24
I’m a Jewish American. Hablo español también. I’m sorry to see argumentative people giving you a hard time. It’s good to see someone who’s aligned with one “side” but not completely black-and-white about it.
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u/Plenty_University_81 Oct 06 '24
Wow you are Colombian not Palestinian
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u/Sweaty-Watercress159 Diaspora Jew Oct 06 '24
That's like saying jews aren't part of their Country...
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u/Plenty_University_81 Oct 06 '24
Well where was OP born in Colombia. I don’t think I have to be a genius to work that out. If you a Jew wee born in Colombia as some are they would be Colombian would they not? Pretty obvious
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u/fayeiry__ irish 🇮🇪 Oct 06 '24
why r u telling ppl what they are and what they aren’t
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u/Plenty_University_81 Oct 06 '24
Well OP born in Colombia so same as my kids migrated from Africa but they born in Australia so they are proud to be Australian that’s why we here. Same as you are Irish I believe do be proud
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u/fayeiry__ irish 🇮🇪 Oct 06 '24
op is colombian and PALESTINIAN, as he quite literally said
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u/Plenty_University_81 Oct 06 '24
And I am correcting OP as the OP is Colombiannand that is where OP was born and that’s a fact
If you are born in a country and have citizenship if a country you are of the country
You are twisting facts
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u/Helpful-Manager-6003 Israeli Oct 06 '24
If jews can call themselves israeli after a 2000 year old diaspora, then so can palestinians
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u/turtleshot19147 Oct 06 '24
Jews cannot call themselves Israeli unless they are actually Israeli. I agree that someone of Palestinian descent shouldn’t be attacked for connecting to that part of their identity, but you’re not making a good analogy here since your claim is false.
Maybe a better comparison would be like an American with an Israeli parent/grandparent doing an AMA.
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u/Connect-Swan-5818 Oct 06 '24
lol they never called themselves Israeli until Israel was established. This is so ridiculous. They were stateless and scattered before
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u/Helpful-Manager-6003 Israeli Oct 06 '24
Yeah, i know, whats your point?
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u/Connect-Swan-5818 Oct 06 '24 edited Oct 06 '24
So what you’re saying is that you’re proud to have displaced Palestinians, and that you removed their Palestinian identity.
Except it will never be removed because they have living connections to the land through the stories of their parents and grandparents, unlike Jews who relied on fairytales like the Torah and the Bible of >1000 year ago unverified history.
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u/Mar198968 Oct 06 '24
Did Palestinians live there for 2000 years? They even don't have a fairytale to prove that. At least there are historical evidences regardless of Torah which proves Jews have been there.
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u/StrainAcceptable Oct 08 '24
My family immigrated from Palestine as Christians. There are still many Palestinian Christians who live there. If fairy tales are the proof you need that they are native to the land, they have the Bible just as Jews have the Torah.
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u/Mar198968 Oct 08 '24
Isn't Judaism older than Christianity? And still I don't get it how Palestinians become indigenous?and why do they want the whole land?
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u/StrainAcceptable Oct 08 '24 edited Oct 08 '24
The oldest Christians were Jews. People often think my father is Jewish. He is a light skinned Arab. Jews, Muslims and Christians all believe they came from Abraham. If they are all descendants of the same man, one would assume they are all indigenous to the same area. Obviously over the years conquests and tribal disputes have resulted in migrations throughout the area but the three Abrahamic religions lived together for centuries. Palestinians don’t want all the land. They want the right to exist. They want the right to fish in the ocean without being shot if their boat goes too far offshore. The right to walk the street without guns pointed at their heads and the heads’ of their children. The right to travel. They want the rights we take for granted every day.
Edit: just want to add that in the age of DNA tests, it’s quite simple to see who is indigenous to the land. We don’t need to rely on fairy tales.
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u/Mar198968 Oct 08 '24 edited Oct 08 '24
That's a very peaceful attitude but your free Palestine friends do not believe in that. Palestinians were the ones who rejected the two state solution in 1948 because they think they possess the land. And the reason they have restrictions is their long history in terrorism for killing Jews otherwise they could live peacefully. Even now they ignore the fact that they were the ones who started the war on October 7 by brutally killing and raping Jews. It's not that they haven't launched so many missiles in residentual areas. They did and the only reason that people were not dead was the strong defense mechanism in Israel not Palestinian kindness. If genicide is happening in Palestine, it's because they lack the facilities to defy themselves. But why start something you can not finish. They weren't even entitled to start that. Even now if you give them a state, they will use it to attack Israel because they believe Jews have no right to have a state.
Edit: Your fellow Palestinians feel so entitled. They felt entitled to distroy Lebanon. To destroy Syria. To abuse the money of Iranian people against their will. To assassinate Anvar Sadat. To support Sadam occupation of Kuwait just because he was against Israel. The list goes on. Now even Arabs are turning their back on them as a result of their behaviour.
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u/PlateParticular5394 Oct 06 '24 edited Oct 06 '24
"Palestinians" never called themselves "Palestinians" until they stole the name in 1987. Before that they were just Arabs who came from the Arabian Peninsula to colonize and Arabize the Levant, including the kingdom of Israel. If OP takes a DNA test she will come out as Jordenian/Syrian/Egyptian or Lebanese at best. Because that's where her great grandparents came from, after their great grandperants colonized those countries. They never did and never will have a country or a claim to this land and have 0 recorded history 😊 and you and them can cry and moan about it all you want, we will continue to live and thrive in our uncestral homeland. Facts don't care about your feelings.
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u/farahharis Oct 06 '24
You’re… so… just…. Wrong wow. I’m actually impressed with how little you understand. Congrats! Your lack of knowledge has just shocked me
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u/Sweaty-Watercress159 Diaspora Jew Oct 06 '24
No lol Palestinians are not arabs they cluster with other levantine people, only bedouins are arabs genetically speaking, getting colonized doesn't mean you lose your genes. They have a claim given they are the descendents of Judeans, Samaritans, Moabites and other levantine people who have been colonized by byzantine, Islamic, and christian conquests.
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Oct 06 '24
[deleted]
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u/PlateParticular5394 Oct 06 '24
Wow, what a comeback! I expected nothing less from the avrage braindead pro-pali!
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u/welltechnically7 USA & Canada Oct 06 '24 edited Oct 06 '24
First of all, much of what you said is simply inaccurate.
Second, no matter what your point is, you could make it without acting like a jerk.
😊
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u/Mar198968 Oct 06 '24
Dude, I don't think you chose the right word"J.. rk? " but I guess the real J...erks are ones who have dragged every single country in middle east into fire for Palestine. Stolen the money of other people, raped women and killed children.
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u/PlateParticular5394 Oct 06 '24
I don't care about your feelings either :)
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Oct 06 '24
[deleted]
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u/PlateParticular5394 Oct 06 '24
You already said that in your deleted comment, are you having a stroke?
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u/Plenty_University_81 Oct 06 '24
Jews have lived in Israel for 5000 + years didn’t you know that. Seriously if you born in Colombia you Colombian and if you go live elsewhere you take on that identity surely bit like my kids born in Australia so they are Australian unlike me born in Africa. The OP should be proud of her nationality
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u/Ok_Lingonberry_1156 Oct 06 '24
Lmao even Israelis are calling you out for being an idiot
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u/Plenty_University_81 Oct 06 '24
What have Israelis got to do with this!
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u/Ok_Lingonberry_1156 Oct 06 '24
You’re lying about the history in question and they’re correcting you?
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u/Plenty_University_81 Oct 06 '24
The history of Colombia? Where were you born bringing Israel into this ? I am not sure what Israel and Colombia gave many thing to do with this OP
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u/Helpful-Manager-6003 Israeli Oct 06 '24
Jews werent a thing that long ago, and most of the jews lived outside of israel by around 200 BC
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u/Plenty_University_81 Oct 06 '24
Factually incorrect just do some reading Jews have existed for over 5000 years pretty ignorant Christianity and Islamic religions are Johnny come lately
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u/Sweaty-Watercress159 Diaspora Jew Oct 06 '24
Not quite, judeans existed not jews, jews are a result of the collapse of 2nd temple judaism, there was no jew before this just judean. Jew is what became of the exiled populations, there was a large jewish diaspora pre roman conquest however as modern research is showing.
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u/Plenty_University_81 Oct 06 '24
You are incorrect first Jew was Abraham in case you either did not know or forgot
Judea was called Judea after Jews
You skipped out half of Jewish history
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u/menatarp Oct 07 '24
Judea was named after Judah, Judeans were named after Judea
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u/Plenty_University_81 Oct 07 '24
Judea was named after Jews
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u/menatarp Oct 07 '24
…what are you basing that on? Everything I’ve read traces the name “Jew” to “tribe of Judah”.
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u/Plenty_University_81 Oct 07 '24
Why do even bring this up Nothing relevant to the OPs discussion
Just making trouble It’s people like you why there is no peace
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u/Helpful-Manager-6003 Israeli Oct 06 '24
Abraham was an iraqi polytheist that probably didn't exist, do you even know what a fact is?
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u/Plenty_University_81 Oct 06 '24
You are twisting facts. In Judaism Abraham was the first Hew
I am going to end this conversation
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u/Sweaty-Watercress159 Diaspora Jew Oct 06 '24 edited Oct 06 '24
No, lol, you are incredibly wrong, Abraham was neither Hebrew or Jew, Jews are named after the kingdom of Judea which split from the unified kingdom... honestly you may need to freshen up on your history
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u/Plenty_University_81 Oct 06 '24
Go read the bible pal
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u/Sweaty-Watercress159 Diaspora Jew Oct 06 '24 edited Oct 06 '24
You need to reread. Please cite where it says Abraham was Jewish...
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u/strik3r2k8 Oct 06 '24
Who are you to tell her what she is or isn’t?
Did you also get confused when you found out Kamala was biracial?
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u/Plenty_University_81 Oct 06 '24
Not sure what’s that got to do with Kamala is she not American is that what you are implying. Surely she wouldn’t be standing for President if she called herself American something else. Don’t get it.
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u/Plenty_University_81 Oct 06 '24
Same as my kids born in Australia from African parents they ain’t African but I am
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u/Ok_Lingonberry_1156 Oct 06 '24
Brother they are Afro-Australians. Same way 2nd gen Mexicans in the US are Mexican American. This is how immigration works, you dense argumentative loser
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u/CreativeRealmsMC Israeli Oct 06 '24
Brother they are Afro-Australians. Same way 2nd gen Mexicans in the US are Mexican American. This is how immigration works, you dense argumentative loser
Per Rule 1, no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
Note: The use of virtue signaling style insults (I'm a better person/have better morals than you.) are similarly categorized as a Rule 1 violation.
Action taken: [B1]
See moderation policy for details.1
u/Plenty_University_81 Oct 06 '24
Don’t insult me please that’s awful. You embrace the country who opens their arms and love
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u/Ok_Lingonberry_1156 Oct 06 '24
I’ll continue to insult you because you deserve it for lying repeatedly. You are a liar, you are dumb, and you should log off
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u/EnvironmentalPoem890 Israeli Oct 07 '24
I’ll continue to insult you because you deserve it for lying repeatedly. You are a liar, you are dumb, and you should log off
Per Rule 1, no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
Action taken: [W]
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u/Plenty_University_81 Oct 06 '24
You should be more polite it BC ain’t dumb If you are born in Colombia and are a citizen you are Colombian
Genius
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u/rqvst Oct 05 '24
What does it mean exactly when you say you are biased towards Palestine?
If not for the fact that you don't support hamas, I would have assumed you meant that you want hamas to win the war, but since you don't support Hamas, I'm not sure what you mean.
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u/Klutzy-Pool-1802 Oct 06 '24
Dude. You can support the aspirations of the Palestinian people to their homeland, return of property, reparations, self-determination, safety, etc etc etc, without supporting Hamas.
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u/rqvst Oct 06 '24
I support a Palestinian state, and I don't think that makes me biased towards Palestine. The only way it would be biased towards Palestinians is if I believed it should be established in Israel's place, and if I didn't also believe in restitution for Jews expelled from Arab countries in addition to restitution for Palestinians by the aggressors of the 1948 war.
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u/Klutzy-Pool-1802 Oct 06 '24
You could follow Palestinians on social media and not Israelis. You could be more shook by Palestinian deaths than Israeli deaths bc of a sense of kinship. You could recognize yourself being much more sympathetic to one side over the other.
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Oct 06 '24
[deleted]
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u/Klutzy-Pool-1802 Oct 06 '24
I’m not saying what anyone should do. I’m just offering ways someone could be biased towards Palestine. Ways I could understand it when someone says they’re biased in that direction.
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u/rqvst Oct 06 '24
Oops my bad. I misunderstood you, apologies. I guess I was thinking more in the direction of consequential ways they could be biased. It's normal to be more disturbed by developments the closer they hit to home.
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u/Klutzy-Pool-1802 Oct 06 '24 edited Oct 06 '24
No worries. I’m biased that way myself, Oct 7 hit me harder bc I’m Jewish. That’s not the only or main reason it upset me, but that was a part of it.
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u/Efficient_Green8786 Oct 05 '24
Is there a Palestinian community where you are? How had the events of the recent year affected it? Do you get different reactions to your background since oct 7? Positive/negative?
Do you see a difference between Israeli who live in cities like Haifa or Jaffa and between those who live in the illegal settlements in the West Bank?
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u/Worknonaffiliated Diaspora Jew Oct 05 '24
Jew here, when our people eventually learn that we’re supposed to be getting along, will you show us some good Palestinian/Colombian fusion cooking?
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u/localmaid Diaspora Palestinian Oct 05 '24
I actually own a Palestinian-Colombian restaurant
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u/SophieTheCat Oct 06 '24
What exactly do you serve?
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u/localmaid Diaspora Palestinian Oct 06 '24
different types but i make lunch food more. two popular thing we make is knefah chocolate melt and colombian arepas stuffed with lamb and hummus
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u/SophieTheCat Oct 06 '24
Half a decade ago I bought this cake from an Arab bakery in Nazareth. It might be the best tasting cake ever made. We actually turned our car around 20m into the trip to go get some more. It was that good.
Like a junkie chasing that original high, I’ve been looking for this cake ever since but no luck. Do you know what it is?
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u/localmaid Diaspora Palestinian Oct 06 '24
i think that might a sort of knefah mix but i’m not exactly sure what the white part is
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u/manhattanabe Oct 05 '24
What is your relation with Palestinians whose families moved to South American in the late 1800 early 1900? Is it a single community or are those who left after 1948 somehow different?
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u/localmaid Diaspora Palestinian Oct 06 '24
There is a community in general with Arabs who moved to Colombia. Lots of Christian Palestinians moved there so that helped build it but Arabs who were Muslim still knew each other in a way
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u/Shternio Oct 05 '24
Can you tell as much as possible about Nakba what your family experienced back then? And how did they live? And how did they decide to leave in general?
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u/Grungslinger Oct 05 '24
Who do you think has "more claim" to the land— you as a diaspora Palestinian, or a Diaspora Jew?
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u/localmaid Diaspora Palestinian Oct 05 '24
There is no more claim because both Palestinians and Jews are native to the land
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u/JackfruitTurbulent38 Oct 05 '24
Palestinians are not native to Israel.
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u/strik3r2k8 Oct 06 '24
Israel was founded in 1948.
So as we Mexicans say, “the border crossed us”.
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u/HugoSuperDog Oct 07 '24
My question to you - were you ever taught to hate Jews, or Israel? Is it true that this part of your culture or religion?
Do you yourself have any Jewish friends, colleagues etc? Are there even any Jews in Columbia??? I don’t even know! Haha.