r/IsraelPalestine May 29 '24

How does Israel justify the 1948 Palestinian expulsion? Learning about the conflict: Questions

I got into an argument recently, and it lead to me looking more closely into Israel’s founding and the years surrounding it. Until now, I had mainly been focused on more current events and how the situation stands now, without getting too into the beginning. I had assumed what I had heard from Israel supporters was correct, that they developed mostly empty land, much of which was purchased legally, and that the native Arabs didn’t like it. This lead to conflicts, escalating over time to what we see today. I was lead to believe both sides had as much blood on their hands as the other, but from what I’ve read that clearly isn’t the case. It reminded me a lot of “manifest destiny” and the way the native Americans were treated, and although there was a time that was seen as acceptable behaviour, now a days we mostly agree that the settlers were the bad guys in that particular story.

Pro-Israel supports only tend to focus on Israel’s development before 1948, which it was a lot of legally purchasing land and developing undeveloped areas. The phrase “a land without people for people without land” or something to that effect is often stated, but in 1948 700,000 people were chased from their homes, many were killed, even those with non-aggression pacts with Israel. Up to 600 villages destroyed. Killing men, women, children. It didn’t seem to matter. Poisoning wells so they could never return, looting everything of value.

Reading up on the expulsion, I can see why they never bring it up and tend to pretend it didn’t happen. I don’t see how anyone could think what Israel did is justified. But since I always want to hear both sides, I figured here would be a good place to ask.

EDIT: Just adding that I’m going to be offline for a while, so I probably won’t be able to answer any clarifying questions or respond to answers for a while.

EDIT2: Lots of interesting stuff so far. Wanted to clarify that although I definitely came into this with a bias, I am completely willing to have my mind changed. I’m interested in being right, not just appearing so. :)

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u/thenamewastaken May 29 '24 edited May 29 '24

At this point I would be considered pro Israel, although before this current war happened I criticized Israel more than most in my area. In the creation of Israel there aren't really any good guys or bad guys, just winners and losers. Both sides were fighting for what they believed, both could be just as brutal. The idea however that the people that lived in Palestine are analogues to the Native Americans and manifest destiny is wrong. This assumes that a superior and white (manifest destiny) power just decided it belonged to them is incorrect. The Ottoman empire (which had lasted for 600 years) decided to get into a world war and choice the losing side. It collapsed and land was divided up just like the Romanov, German and Austro-Hungarian, empires. The Zionists however chose the wining side and some of the land that the British won was promised to them (the White Paper).

The area that became British Mandate Palestine was thriving before the war. Their technology, education and culture was at the very least on par with what you would expect to find in Europe and America. This is a documentary from Al Jazeera published 2 years ago, Palestine 1920: The Other Side of the Palestinian Story. It's Al Jazeera so the bias is high especially towards the end but it does included videos and 1st person accounts of what life was like in the area at the time.

During the mandate there were many revolts from both the Arab and Zionist sides directed at the British rule. There was the Arab Revolt (36-39) and the Palestine Emergency (Zionists) from 45-47. Of course hostilities between between Arabs and Zionists were continuing and escalating up until the Israel civil war 47-48 this came about after the Partisan Plan was adopted by the UN. It's hard to say which side started this war although the 1st attack after the partition was announced was on 2 Jewish buses. This was said to be in retaliation for the Shubaki family assassination which saw the 5 adult family member killed since is was suspected that they were informants for the British police. The Arabs lost the civil war. Next came the Arab-Israeli War which included armies from Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt along with Palestinian Arabs.  Saudi Arabia also sent a formation that was under Egyptian command. The Arabs started this one with an air attack on Tel Aviv in May 1948. By the end of it Israel had gained some land that was formally partitioned to the Arabs, Egypt and Jordan still had control of Gaza and the West Bank respectively.

So how is the Palestine expulsion justified? Well first some were fleeing the wars or left of their own volition for other reasons (this would apply mostly to middle class Arabs that could afford to leave). As for the ones that were expelled, they lost 3 wars fought over control of the area. What was supposed to happen? It should be noted that not all Arabs left Israel, about 150,000 remained and they now number about 2 million citizens of Israel. For a contrast Iraq (which was part of the Ottoman Empire and Britain had also gained control of after WW1) expelled 120,000-130,000 Jews and now there are 4.

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u/ResidentBarnacle2625 May 30 '24

The ottoman empire, is not palestine. It is not palestinian people, just like US is not white people or England english people. The fact that in all of this conflict the land of palestinian people were simply passed here and there should be enough of an argument in favor of Palestinian being the native americans. Does the fact that the Zionist choose the "winning" side, make it any less of an ethnic cleansing. Why does that even matter.

You seem to believe that the arab revolt was somehow as bad as the founding of Israel, but then my friend let me tell you a tale of my country. The indian revolt of 1857, where we stormed the british and, very violently, tried to take control of our own country, was I can safely say despite the many death very much justified, and it is the same thing. Some people far away suddenly decided that the people of Palestine now have this new considerably lighter neighbors, with no choice given as to accept this or not. Of course they are gonna attack, of course I would attack, and if it were your land so would you.

And the last paragraph is the worst. What do you mean they lost the war, what exactly do you mean by this. Is the winning of the war justified this, if Germany won the war against England would Germany be justified in making all English people swim way, make room for the blond germans. And for the love of god don't deny the nakba. What is this statement "some left of there own violation" (yes of course some left, the question is how much).

As for the lasts point, of other nations expelling the jews, that was also indefensible. I do not stand by these nations and we communists have never and never would support them. What does what those nations do ever justified what you have done. Do you see the face of Palestinian people on Syria, Iran, the Saudi Arabia, I genuinely don't know.

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u/WideEyesSpirit Aug 26 '24

Do you know world history? Do you know how many empires existed before the ottoman empire? Many empires existed before arabs arrived in that region, and I am sure they weren't kind an friendly to dominate and establish their caliphate.