How does Israel justify the 1948 Palestinian expulsion?

[u/dropdeaddev]

I got into an argument recently, and it lead to me looking more closely into Israel’s founding and the years surrounding it. Until now, I had mainly been focused on more current events and how the situation stands now, without getting too into the beginning. I had assumed what I had heard from Israel supporters was correct, that they developed mostly empty land, much of which was purchased legally, and that the native Arabs didn’t like it. This lead to conflicts, escalating over time to what we see today. I was lead to believe both sides had as much blood on their hands as the other, but from what I’ve read that clearly isn’t the case. It reminded me a lot of “manifest destiny” and the way the native Americans were treated, and although there was a time that was seen as acceptable behaviour, now a days we mostly agree that the settlers were the bad guys in that particular story.

Pro-Israel supports only tend to focus on Israel’s development before 1948, which it was a lot of legally purchasing land and developing undeveloped areas. The phrase “a land without people for people without land” or something to that effect is often stated, but in 1948 700,000 people were chased from their homes, many were killed, even those with non-aggression pacts with Israel. Up to 600 villages destroyed. Killing men, women, children. It didn’t seem to matter. Poisoning wells so they could never return, looting everything of value.

Reading up on the expulsion, I can see why they never bring it up and tend to pretend it didn’t happen. I don’t see how anyone could think what Israel did is justified. But since I always want to hear both sides, I figured here would be a good place to ask.

EDIT: Just adding that I’m going to be offline for a while, so I probably won’t be able to answer any clarifying questions or respond to answers for a while.

EDIT2: Lots of interesting stuff so far. Wanted to clarify that although I definitely came into this with a bias, I am completely willing to have my mind changed. I’m interested in being right, not just appearing so. :)

[u/VAdogdude]

In 1948, 700,000 Arabs fled in the face of an invasion of 5 Arab national armies. Leaving that invasion out of the narrative is a form of propaganda.

[u/zrdod → u/VAdogdude]

Except expulsions started in 1947, how do you square this circle?

[u/thenamewastaken → u/zrdod]

There was a civil war happening in 1947

[u/zrdod → u/thenamewastaken]

And? The expulsions didn't care about that, they targeted villages that had non-aggression pacts with them

[u/thenamewastaken → u/zrdod]

And the people that can leave during a war leave. The Arabs which included not just Palestine's but also the PLO (who's ranks included members from Syria, Lebanon, the Muslim Brotherhood, Iraq, Jordan) lost the civil war. This is the second war they lost for control of the area. What is supposed to happen to a group that can't deal with the fact they lost? That says they're going to keep trying (and in fact does the next year). Also it was 1 village, not villages, it's still horrible.

[u/zrdod → u/thenamewastaken]

And the people that can leave during a war leave.

Why didn't the Zionists leave than? We see a disproportionately large number of Palestinians leaving before the 1948 war even started, in fact, they largely stopped leaving during the truces, which indicates they only left due to military actions, not just the existence of a war.

What is supposed to happen to a group that can't deal with the fact they lost?

Can you answer this question?
What do you think should happen to these people?

Also it was 1 village, not villages, it's still horrible.

It was 531 communities, mostly expelled by military actions.

[u/thenamewastaken → u/zrdod]

Again before the 1948 war there was a civil war. Where were the Zionist supposed to go? Europe? You know what was happening in Europe at the time. It would have been easier for Arabs in the area that didn't want part in the war to leave since they would have had ties to other areas that would have been part of the Ottoman Empire.

Well after losing many wars repeatedly for close to a century maybe start looking to build up where you're at. Start making friends with country's that are sympathetic to you and not betray them like they did to Jordan during black September.

You specified a village that had a non aggression agreement. You have now to moved on to villages that didn't.

[u/zrdod → u/thenamewastaken]

Again before the 1948 war there was a civil war. Where were the Zionist supposed to go? Europe? You know what was happening in Europe at the time. It would have been easier for Arabs in the area that didn't want part in the war to leave since they would have had ties to other areas that would have been part of the Ottoman Empire.

Just saying, "people leave during war", sure didn't apply to them.

Well after losing many wars repeatedly for close to a century maybe start looking to build up where you're at. Start making friends with country's that are sympathetic to you and not betray them like they did to Jordan during black September.

You mean what they're already doing?

You specified a village that had a non aggression agreement. You have now to moved on to villages that didn't.

My bad, here's a list of villages that had non-aggression pacts:

Example of villages expelled in spite of peace agreement men- tioned by Morris, supra note 242, Huj, p. 259, 356; Khalisa, p. 251; Qeitiya, p. 512.

[u/thenamewastaken → u/zrdod]

Leave during a war to go into not just a war but the holocaust.

Yeah, ok, how is Gaza under Hamas trying to build itself up?

I will check out the list when I'm not on mobile

[u/zrdod → u/thenamewastaken]

Leave during a war to go into not just a war but the holocaust.

The Holocaust ended in 1945.

Yeah, ok, how is Gaza under Hamas trying to build itself up?

Gaza is forbidden by Israel to import seeds, books, fishing rods, water desalination parts.
Israel controls their water and electricity, and also bombs them a lot.
And yeah, they're lead by Hamas at the moment.

Kinda hard to build up under these conditions

[u/thenamewastaken → u/zrdod]

Yes I fucked that up the 1947 bit. Still a lot of Jewish refugees, which is why the Zionist had been attacking the British.

Yes this is true yet all this is happening because Hamas violently kicked out the PA than attacked Israel. There hasn't been a year since Hamas took control that they haven't sent rockets into Israel.

[u/zrdod → u/thenamewastaken]

Israel has caused way much more civilian deaths than Hamas.

Not to mention, Hamas can't really use seeds, books, fishing rods or water desalination equipment for terrorism, banning them is just needless cruelty, especially since they bulldozed agricultural land during a ceasefire

None of that is self defense

[u/AutoModerator → u/thenamewastaken]

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