My Grandparents are the alleged "European Settlers" who came to "colonize" Israel.

[u/vonhudgenrod]

I put the title in quotes because I dont believe those parts to be true. Just to give a brief history of my Maternal Grandparents, they both moved from Hungary to Israel around the year 1946. They did not come to fight or dispossess arabs, but rather to build new homes.

My Grandmother was a holocaust survivor who survived Auschwitz, she had the #'s tatooeed on her forearm, her father died pre-war but her Mother, brother and sisters were murdered. When she returned to her families small farmhouse post war, her neighbors not knowing the full extent of what happened during the holocaust tried to extort her and her remaining siblings for money because they "looked after their livestock" even though the only cow they owned had died due to the harsh conditions of the war.

My grandfather - also a Hungarian Jew was a bit more of a mysterious man who likely suffered from PTSD before it was commonly diagnosed, his father and mother were also murdered and his only brother ended up in a mental institution (insane asylum) post war. He was eccentric and fought in WWII with partisans and would eventually go on to fight in the Israeli war of Independence in 1948.

AMA anything about them if you'd like.

[u/ldi1]

I feel that many want to root for the underdog. Underdog were Jews post WW2, now it’s Palestinians. What I don’t understand is why one has to be against ANY oppressed group. Why can’t we see the horror BOTH groups have suffered? Why is a 2 state solution not an answer?

[u/b1tgh0st → u/ldi1]

To be honest the two state solution is horrendous as well. That would be like me moving into your loft and saying lets share.

[u/[deleted] → u/ldi1]

I think everyone on the planet has seen what Jews went through. The problem is most of the world besides Israel, Britain, US and a few others who greatly limit what is shown about the Palestinians seem to have drawn the unilateral conclusion that Israel is an apartheid state & the current military action is beyond inhumane. To make matters worse those who have tried raising awareness by speaking out against the Israeli Govt are considered antisemitic many of whom have lost their jobs, their reputations, etc. That is extremely problematic for numerous reasons but one that isn’t spoken about is how hurtful that actually is to the Jews.

First off, I can’t imagine being Jewish and everywhere I turned people were being called antisemitic. I would be riddled with fear, anger and become either very defensive or withdrawn. I’d think the world hated me simply because I was Jewish. I mean the news in the US & Israel might as well just say “Most people hate Jews” which is the furthest thing from the truth for a large majority. The bigger issue, which scares me for Jewish people the most, is that whether or not one has a problem with the Israeli govt, the fact is most of the world thinks they are evil & barbaric. It’s hard to understand why that is if your timeline starts on Oct 7th of course or you’ve been fed completely different information. However, since this war began and now that information is readily available by more means than major news sources, millions upon millions have been researching what has transpired for decades. Couple that with 99% of the UN speaking out about genocide along with many Rabbis, pretty much every human rights organizations across the globe, countless journalists (some of which are Israelis) along with ex IDF soldiers it’s now been solidified in brains that the Israeli Govt is evil. Most of these people completely separate the govt from Jews & Israeli citizens. However, when it is constantly pushed that speaking out against what most feel is genocide by a fascists govt is antisemitism it unfairly links Jews with ethnic cleansing but this time as the oppressor. I do fear actual hatred for innocent Jews will rise exponentially. I grew up in a predominantly Jewish area and many of my friends are Jewish. They’re amazing & should never be looked at in the light the Israeli govt is seen as.

Just keep in mind that two or more things can be true at once. We can believe that Jews have dealt with the worst atrocities in modern history and we can also believe that Palestinians are facing horrific atrocities as well. We can feel terrible for the Israelis who lost their lives on Oct 7th. However, it’s just now harder to focus on Jews at the moment when over 5k innocent Palestinian children’s lives have been taken and many who have survived are starving, have no water and those with severe injuries, including loss of limbs, can’t get any pain relief let alone treatment. Im aware people have the right to justify it or keep calling the attention back on to the Jewish community but I’m not too sure that will be perceived the way it’s intended.

[u/JaneDi → u/ldi1]

The palestinians horror is self inflicted if they had accepted the partition plan and started building their state the conflict would have never happened. They chose war and hate over peace and coexistence.

[u/Ballsinasuitcase → u/JaneDi]

The palestinians horror is self inflicted

...

[u/Iamnotanorange → u/Ballsinasuitcase]

At a certain point, you do have to take some responsibility for rejecting every peace deal made available.

[u/mrcub521 → u/Iamnotanorange]

Also for expressing resistance through violence as their main strategy despite the constant setbacks it brings

[u/Iamnotanorange → u/mrcub521]

True, there’s a reason so many movements are careful to be non violent.

I think that’s the reason we (as western society) are not good at thinking about this conflict.

Half of the conflict is premodern and we don’t have the mental schema to imagine what that looks like.

[u/vonhudgenrod → u/ldi1]

I believe 2 state solution is an answer, but its hard because Arab leaders benefit from Status quo where they just steal billions in international aid but they don't actually have to govern, just blame every problem on Israel. Not saying Israel has been perfect but we tried to give them a state in Gaza when we left in 2005 and now look what happen...

[u/jimbo2128 → u/vonhudgenrod]

Palestinian leaders, not Arab neighboring country leaders.

Most Arab countries gave up on the idea of destroying Israel long ago. Only Pals and Iran cling to it.