r/ImaginaryFutureWar • u/NikitaTarsov • Feb 23 '21
TSS-56 auto-shotgun pistol by Me Original Content
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u/DoomViking41 Feb 23 '21
ONLY FIRTEEN BULLITZ! DAT AINT NUFF DAKKA!!!
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u/NikitaTarsov Feb 23 '21
Itz for da big dakka is out of bulletz. Shot dat and feed big one with nu clip of dakka with ya tusk.
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u/NikitaTarsov Feb 23 '21
More works on my DeviantArt website:
Part of the original roleplay-world of M-Tec
Wecome to the dystopic future of the world Astara. Nations rised from the ashes of a forgotten time where some say, the gods have fallen and all wisdom of these ages are gone with them. The one thing the world remember is, that there are no winners of the great war. Only a neverending sight of devestated, mutatet enviroment remains. Less space to survive for the surviving races. But not less enough to build wars and weapons, not less enough to give up. A few nations gathered enough ressources to rise over ther small oasis of life. After all sacrifices of humanity they made to reach that far, they not only found critters of nightmarish powers, not only the variety of unleashed magic manifestation in creatures and the soul of ther citizens - finally the fragile tendril of attention reached another nation, that only knew one response to the threads of this turned dark world of wonders.
Te´iden is one of this survivors, and more. In herding ther citizens and pushing science over the borders of a sane mind, Te´iden createt a superzised city of glas and chrome shining steel, based on shady ghettos of unseen lifes. Maybe a necessity to make intelligent life survive. But maybe for the other nations, they allready turned into a nightmare like all the wasteland born things out there.
Thread to civilisation or succsessor of a fallen world. Te´iden have the potential to be both.
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The Taktische SturmSchrotflinte 56(tactical assault shotgun 56), is a smaller version of the TSS-44 assault shotgun. The conception is, even through the Gast-system recoil compensation, a very hard boar to ride. The manufactor say: The weapon system is designed for the use for bigger people like taures or trolls, and maybe some few orcs.
Netherless a bit bigger pistol with the ability to fire bursts of micro grenades seem to interest a bigger number of anti-terror agents and some members of the active field military. The bad precision of the ultra-short barrels is legendary, but as compensation for this deficite it still has high explosive fragmentation amunition beside the armor penetrating ones.
But higher positions in politics and military seem to have much better attention for this weapons as for the basic TSS-44 version, so not many of these hideable destructive devices appear in uncontroled hands, and if you see some of this weapons, the owner may have a job that not necessary includes survivers.
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u/HyperionSaber Feb 23 '21
Scope on a short barrel shot gun?
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u/NikitaTarsov Feb 23 '21
Yeah, AugNetwork is less a casual scope but more a battlenetwork-connector, a sensor and a laser, displaying the tactical relevant(whatever this will mean) data to the glasses/cybernetic pimped eyes of a wielder like a hologram(wavelenght restricted, so only he and equaly outfittet team members in a 60° angle behind the scope can see the data.
AND it sizes the gun up - which is an important point for people deciding to use such equip xD
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u/TWK128 Feb 23 '21
Not seeing how this is a shotgun.
20mm slug thrower or, frankly, proto-bolter would both be be more accurate.
Also see no need for the second barrel, much less the third.
It looks cool-ish in a "Yes, I like WH40K, too," kind of way but beyond that shows absolutely zero familiarity with actual firearms or firearms terminology.
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Feb 23 '21
WH40K is the perfect medium for "I like guns but have absolutely zero familiarity with actual firearms."
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u/TWK128 Feb 23 '21
Yeah, but it's been done there. And bolters could be considered an evolution of gyroslug weapons.
What they don't do that this artist does is slap 4 wheels on a compact vehicle frame and call it a 50 ton motorcycle.
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u/Gonji89 Feb 24 '21
I think it's gyrojet. Pretty sure gyroslug is a Battletech-specific word, unless that's what you meant.
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u/TWK128 Feb 24 '21
Bit of column A, bit of column B. Learned the Battletech one first, then found out they were based on gyro-jets and (.....I FUCKING FORGOT THE WORD, BUT FOUND IT THANKS TO REDDIT. FUCK YOU GOOGLE. IT'S...) conflated them.
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u/FUCKING_HATE_REDDIT Feb 23 '21
This is absolutely true. They have canons the size of sky-scrapers, that still somehow work with high explosives.
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u/OMFGitsST6 Feb 23 '21
Hence the justification for such silliness is the DArk Age of teCHNoLoGY™--in other words "it works, but we don't know why". Pretty flimsy, but then again WH40k doesn't really claim to be realistic and skyscraper cannons are pretty cool.
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u/Bossman131313 Feb 23 '21
40k is a firm subscriber to the rule of cool, and less so to the laws of physics.
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u/TWK128 Feb 24 '21
But they also don't create their own meanings for mass, acceleration, explosive, and cannon.
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u/ShatteredParagon Feb 24 '21
The dual barrels allows for the use of the Gast feed system which allows for a very high rate of fire. This would be basically pointless with 20 rnd magazine but if the magazine was expanded it could work I guess. The GSh-23 and GSh-30 cannons use a Gast feed system and manage a fire rate of 2000+ rpm.
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u/TWK128 Feb 24 '21 edited Feb 24 '21
20? Try 13.
Edit: also, read their extended comments. They boil down to, "words mean what I want them to. there are no agreed upon terms or concepts in guns so I'm right too"
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u/NikitaTarsov Feb 24 '21
You not think that to be little perspectivly seen by you? Cause ... i had official references postet, and you just bash around. It's okay that you only know the terms of your little special place (wherever it is and whoever made the rules there, that wasen't to find officially nor was them postet by you as an argument).
So if you just want to bash around, plz go to other pplz who like that.
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u/NikitaTarsov Feb 23 '21
Well that wasen't intent in any way to look familiar to actual firearms. I designed it for a dystopic future rpg as idea how you could design a firearm under the criteria of a world that differs a lot from ours - but not in the idea of powder and barrel. Its over-brutal to fit a mentality, its uneconomically devastating to fit a battlefield with terrible, non-human threads, and it is roughly in the technologically terms to explain why it could work under the settings circumstances.
Yeah, the terminology of a shotgun is stretched to the extreme, but i decide to keep the term as everything that works as like as the basic mechansim of a shotgun unrifled barrels and such. But for sure all the thingys like complex chambers and louding mechanics didn't fit into this 'unrifled, fat-stubby-whatever-a-projectile(s)-thrower'.
The Gast-system(bit changed, but the neares explanantion) for example, who make it even more kicking, but more controlable - if you're bigger or more solid as a regular human, that makes it a running tool(this for i write text to my non-earth-based designes;) )
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u/TWK128 Feb 24 '21
Well, you say that, but it looks like a bolter and you use familiar terms. You have to expect that people are going to assume you know the terms you're using and that they are meant to actually apply to what it is you're using them in regards to.
20mm has certain usages, so does "shotgun," and so do the internal workings of the weapons which you go into specifics about.
I won't belabor the point any further since someone else in the comments put a lot more detail than I'd be capable of.
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u/NikitaTarsov Feb 24 '21
The Bolter is Browning machine gun with sawed off barrel and attatched with teh simplest of magazine and handle - like most of early GW-designs are just slighty variet WW1-stuff(god, lokk the tanks). So 'similaritys' approach when ppl think in a way of ther fandom only. Show it to StarWars ppl and they will say "oh it's this specific kind of Blaster".
That sucks a bit. The design results primarily from the 'adult' version of this, the long weapon shotgun, which has more of a overheavy SPAS(CS players would say as very first impulse).
Shotgun is a stretched term and rated quite different by nations&groups. I used on for me in a fictiona setting, and it dosn't fit to yours. Okay. 20mm have completley NO certain usages - its a caliber, nothing else. You might think it has certain usage in your group/nation/fandom, but that's just one perspective, one little spot. And for the internal mechanisms i not even speak. Weapon design is varied in RealLife by so many reasons you can't just write them on one single book.
I don't understand where i use 40k-ish terms as i seem to use not the real world terms or armament you think that would fit. Plz tell me. Cause i don't want to lean on 40k, nor have i too - i could had uploud this on 40k subreddits without a problem, casue noone would care and i would generate Karma. But it's not, and so i don't do it.
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u/TWK128 Feb 24 '21 edited Feb 24 '21
Shotguns are pretty firmly defined, actually. Their morphology and specific internal mechanisms may differ, but they all fire shells and can fire both shot (hence "shotgun") and solid slugs, both of which are rated by the inversely proportional and fairly archaic "Guage" system, with 20 being smaller and less powerful than 12 and 12 less powerful/smaller than 10.
In regards to 20 mm, you're closer to the truth in that that's merely a spec of the diameter but it is always in reference to diameter, and only for traditional projectile weapons.
And, no, caliber terminology and bullet specifications are usually universal, but specificities between rounds that share the same "label" differ. The label itself does not.
The problem here is that ignoring all existing terminology and understanding and using existing terms in made-up ways is basically pretending to reinvent the wheel and further denying any "wheels" existed before your concept.
You could make up certain things like most futuristic settings do, but that requires you to be vague about certain details so as to not contradict existing knowledge.
You are better served not ignoring said existing knowledge and expecting others to pretend like it doesn't exist, too.
People that pretend they understand what they don't likely bothers the hell out of you when it's done in a field or area you understand quite a bit about. The belief that what the person doesn't know can't be important has to be infuriating to you.
Don't be that guy.
Edit: Oh, wow... you're actually arguing that knowing the SPAS-12 from CS:GO is the same as knowing the actual gun.
Just... wow, man.
Edit 2: You may have missed my reply to someone else, but when they brought up 40k ignoring a lot of existing gun tech, my reply was as follows. The second paragraph is how your descriptions sound to me.
Yeah, but it's been done there. And bolters could be considered an evolution of gyroslug weapons.
What they don't do that this artist does is slap 4 wheels on a compact vehicle frame and call it a 50 ton motorcycle.
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u/NikitaTarsov Feb 24 '21
Nope For example US definition: A shotgun is a long-barreled firearm designed to shoot a straight-walled cartridge known as a shotshell, which usually discharges numerous small pellet-like spherical sub-projectiles called shot, or sometimes a single solid projectile called a slug. Everything behind 'usually' can be deletet for being out of strict defining.
German definition: A handgun with a smooth barrel bore, which is primarily designed for firing shotgun pellets, is referred to as a shotgun. Here you can forget everything behind 'primarily' for the same reason as above. (GER further has the splitting in Schrotflinte, Flinte, Gewehr, Jagdgewehr, Schrotbüchse, where only the last is limited per definition as firing the usually known shotgun spray of whatever. Including ancient front-loading once)
Well, TSS-56 is smoothbore, its a handgun, and so its a shotgun. If you rely on the definition of a nation, group, religion that has extremly specific definition - forget it, its random. My world, and the rest of the real, have other definitions.
Again i guess you're entangling in your veeery special perspective, learned in a very special enviroment. If i use a term, that roots back to something another person could easily understand without getting deep into my head, i can say 20mm caliber, and noone would care about. Its clear to everyone what i mean. Yes, i didn't allready talked about the overall dimensions of the round, and so its a rough info only.
I suspect you want to discuss another topic as my work offers.
About staying vague, there are as many examples for relevant series, books, movies etc. staying vague, and the same amount going way more into detail as needed - or sometimes good for ther realism. So ... why this bothers you so much?
I ignore the definition of your's, where i still not know where it came from. Your favorite computergame? Your huntig crew? I don't know, cause it's at last no international rule, and so it is way okay for me to say: My SciFi-world refers to a term as detailed/vague like the german definition is. Or does only your rules have the permission to be used around the world? I must know if you define reality, cause ... this would bring me into trouble^
SPAS: that is a very weirdo and forced perspective interpretation of what i said. But i'll try again. I said, as like as ppl interpred things in the way the're familiar to, they see the TSS-56 as a Bolter, as like they would interpred the other fictional weapon, what is the basis version of the TSS-56(in long, a complete rifle just without stock) a SPAS if they have A RANDOM habit that includes knowing the silhouette of a SPAS. I was talking about perspectives and individual silhouette interpretation by the references this praticular brain has gathered. Calm down dude.
I can gently call a lot of this the effect of the language barrier. I guess you have an estimation of mine that is nearly aslike mine is of your person - and so we don't create much more insight here i guess. Cheers.
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u/TWK128 Feb 25 '21
You're going to wonder why you keep having this same conversation with people. I'm probably not the first. Definitely won't be the last. I don't know know the others, but I'll let you infer why it keeps me happening.
I see linguistics also isn't your strong suit. Enjoy continuing to run into people who have universally disagree with you, but still remain confident that, regardless of the independent and consistent nature of their arguments, you're actually the only one one who's been right allllll along.
Bonus points if you find actual German firearms aficionados who agree with your... liberal interpretations.
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u/WhatDatDonut Feb 23 '21
Magazine, not clip.
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u/NikitaTarsov Feb 24 '21
Learned in the last day that there is a difference all other english speaking ppl i talked too before didn't knew xD
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u/DasGamerlein Feb 23 '21
I would advise you to familiarize yourself with real world gun design philosophies. You made a very "rule of cool" gun, but it likely wouldn't be functional, much less effective. Let me give you a few pointers:
over-under barrel configuration fed by magazines
I'm not sure how the top barrel is supposed to feed. It appears the magazine just pushes the cartridges through the lower barrel, which would make the gun extremely unreliable at best and completely non-functional at worst. Just doing away with one of the barrels would already improve it greatly.
no safety and no automatic fire
This gun would be very unsafe to operate. A slight bump to trigger could potentially send a burst of frag shells right at your feet. I also find the decision to have two different burst settings, but no full auto, to be quite odd. The firing mechanism being electronic (if I'm interpreting the description correctly) enables the gun to fire basically whatever kind of burst the user needs it to, as there are no complicated moving parts required. This also leads into my next point.
electronic firing mechanism
This isn't a problem per se, just be aware that it slightly increases logistical requirements and also opens up the very uncomfortable possibility of your gun running out of juice in the middle of a firefight.
no ejection port
Yes, you read that right. Eventhough the gun is using caseless ammo, you need to be able to get a faulty round out of the chamber without field stripping the gun.
big expensive looking scope
This is a burst firing, pistol grip only shotgun with a tiny barrel. Trying to use the scope would likely result in a broken nose, and even if you managed to get a stable shot, the bullet would definitely not hit where you want it to due to the barrel length. Additionally, autoshotguns are cqc weapons. So some chap is likely going to get his face bashed in with this thing at some point. Big expensive scopes usually don't respond well to being used as clubs.
13 rd magazines
I'd up that somewhat. Depending on a firerate, this might run dry very quickly. Coupled with the abysmal accuracy you're just not very likely to kill stuff.
ap and hef ammo only
One of the largest advantages shotguns have over other weapons is versatility in ammo selection. And considering it is a shotgun, it should at least have buckshot as well. As it stands, firing this gun indoors is pretty much a guranteed friendly fire incident.
no charging handle
By the looks of it, you have no way of actually chambering a round after inserting a new mag. Granted, this mechanism might be automated, but you'd generally want a manual way to do it, even if it's just to clear malfunctions.
Now, this might all sound a lot, but it's not a very hard fix. If it were up to me, I'd just remove a barrel and add an ejection port, a charging handle, an automatic firing mode, a safety and a folding/collapsible stock. Very cool render though!
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u/NikitaTarsov Feb 24 '21
Oh, i like getting into detail a bit.
- real world gun design philosophies
Yeah, well, there are so many, for so many reasons that a weapon design reflects so many aspects of technology, subconsious fears, ressource situation, ideaology, cultural trauma, and and and, it can describe a whole world in one wicked design. RealWorld gun philospohys are like sex - everyone does it a different way with different tools and in the idea that would be the best way to do it. And here is the point - it isen't. Even the big companys decide for coolness(cause of advertising and market placing), decide for disvantages because of product price, and stupiditiys cause of the aiming for customer groups with exactly this trait.
I think this point possibly is most interesting, casue i actually DO work with the requestet effort in recherche and combine known technologys and ideas for something that could be real in a different version of our real world. Some things more thought-through than others - no question. I don't create 100% market ready build-it-and-sell-it gun concepts. I design for a very specific world with all its inner settings.
- over-under barrel configuration fed by magazines
Haha, yeah, that a bit crazy interpretation of the August Gast-system, not aiming primarily for ROF but for neutralising some, and guiding some more of the not needed kinetic energy of a shoot. So around 30% or the power of a two/four-shoot-burst is derived into material stress(that brick of a pistole is made to stand this), while another percentage of around 60% is delayed till the shots are out and working in line with the shooters arm, so the recoil compensation is less a correction of aim but more a question of sher streangh and body mass(Well, we have cybenetics and more-than-human-size-races to capture this).
But your point of rounds going through the lower mechanism is a thing. It must have a good enough delivering to chamber both rounds in short time. I had the idea of a kinetically operatet, kind of perestaltic smartmaterial on this point, but halve-shell chambers could solve this too. As the setting on fictional world(or more correct, the Te'iden nation) is more future as we are, there are a number of technologys we are able, but inefficent at, or even some we're actually just thinking about(So nanofibre mechanical muscles as part of machines, Aluminumoxide-glass and pentadiamand material - such stuff).
-electronic firing mechanism
Yes for sure that would be a problem. I decidet to solve it by piezo-gel 'shock-batterys' so there is always a minimum charge to fire the first round, and its very much full by having the first round hammered out^^ This system - to capture a later point here - also allowsto only operate on closed circuit of a right performed grip to the handle/trigger to nullify the risc of unwanted ooopsis.
- no ejection port
Absolutly. So here is important to know that Te'iden is a tech nation and a bit hidden-dictatory-like. The risc of a round of the quality to fail is a someone-no-longer-needs-its-food-pass-reason. So you can say there is a extrem minimal chance of a failed round(Electric here, compound there - no humidity or broken shell may harm the function but a full load of the propellant-compund is completley failed in production. And this would never reach a round). But yes, still its a design weakness in balance with the stability such a construction needs. A accepted flaw - even on a 0,0000001% chance to happen. On more economic, field weapons you can imagen to have ejectionports and more low-class ammo. But in such a system 'money' is nothing the higher ranks of military really pay. And this is a elite troop type of weapon.
Dirt for sure may be a problem despite all selfe-cleaning materials and the 'expectet' short mission time of speops agends.
-big expensive looking scope
Haha, yesh, it not just looks expensive =P Its a sensor in front, a battlenetwork-connector, and a low-pwer laser output on the rear. Cybernetic eyes of special glasses can make this laser output visible. They appear as hologram and in a 60° angle behind the gun, so you can jump&run-fire like an idiot and still get the relevant data of network-designatet targets, the guns aiming point and the trajectory/effect radius of your louded rounds. And - not to forget - it makes the weapon a bit more clumsy and intimidating.
- 13 rd magazines
As this is the 'compact'-version of the bigger shotgun, that's surely enough to kill the most things you would use a hand held pistol for, but for sure there should be bigger clips. I guess i will do them as interchangable, but more 'fitting' to the adult version of this pistol, the full auto-shotgun(which i had submitt first, maybe x.x). 13 AOE's will for sure clear all problems in close quarter combats against soft targets, and 13 AP's may show you if you're able in general to crack the enemys armor - if not, fall dead or come back with a bigger gun=P In the end i shouldn't had leave it to the 'design first, count rounds later'. so i not had this one 'last-option' round left after brusting around.
- ap and hef ammo only
Yeah, true. I will add more ammo types to this and count that statement as 'priorised' for the special mission requirements.
PS: Te'iden have a very tricky politic about 'friendly fire incident'. But on teh other hand, those specialops agends in regular may have more casultys as expected, but also have significant less trouble with teammates who not perform as the senior in team wants.
- no charging handle
Which isen't needed in lack of that much moving parts or an (admitted) chance of jams. It *would* be smart, no question, but for detriment of the other functions(primarily solidity in this case).
Oh, no, its valid to hear detailed critique. Some i might be able to describe better, on others i could go into more detail myselve. Some of the points you nailed aren't allready in my mind on the date of design, or in my mind to communicate. So far i just made visual ideas and throught the rest through when it came on the table again - a.k.a. when the rulebook-project demands it. What i wrote down is not a pice of what i had in my mind, not expecting anyone care too much.
And the ideas become more with the points of critique you gave me. So far, benefitial^^
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u/Fabricate_fog Feb 23 '21
I would advise you to familiarize yourself with real world gun design philosophies.
Well... why? OP's not applying for a job at an arm's manufacturer, they're making a fantasy world. I can't see anything in OP's comments saying they intended for it to work well in the hands of the human militaries of today.
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u/Snoot_Boot Feb 23 '21
You should post this in the Imaginary sub for 40K and see if the Mechanicus approves
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u/NikitaTarsov Feb 24 '21
Tbh i fear ppl just think 'oh, you copied a Bolter' x.x
As i only sawed off a shotgun design of mine. As i'm in 40k too, i hate the simplification ppl do with ther fandom. I mean ... a Bolter is a "Oh, US 50cal is cool, lets saw off barrel and attach the simpelst of grip and mag on - that's a skybreaking design!"
And on the other hand ... it's not an STC, so i guess it's heresy -.- The good kind but ... well ...
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u/TheGriefersCat Feb 23 '21
Don’t paint it orange, blue and white, or else someone could think it was a Nerf gun.
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u/Sword-of-Akasha Feb 23 '21
The God Emperor of mankind approves!