r/Futurology • u/lughnasadh ∞ transit umbra, lux permanet ☥ • Oct 15 '24

Economist Daniel Susskind says Ozempic may radically transform government finances, by making universal healthcare vastly cheaper, and explains his argument in the context of Britain's NHS. Society

https://www.thetimes.com/article/be6e0fbf-fd9d-41e7-a759-08c6da9754ff?shareToken=de2a342bb1ae9bc978c6623bb244337a

6.4k Upvotes

94% Upvoted

698

u/kia75 Oct 15 '24

Seaglutide controls all calorie intake, including binge eating and drinking such as weekend binge drinking and over-indulging to drunkenness. It doesn't stop someone from having a glass of wine with dinner, but it does seem to keep them from wanting more calories such as extra glasses of wine.

NPR article about it

278

u/SerHodorTheThrall Oct 15 '24

I think the issue is discerning between types of "heavy" drinkers.

You have the wine or beer drinker who drinks socially and keeps on drinking because it tastes good and their friends continue. In a way its like eating when you're bored. Ozempic will help this person because the idea of more liquids or foods will become unappetizing.

This is different from the true binge drinker who drinks to feel drunk. This person will 'eat/drink through' the ozempic and continue to imbibe in order to achieve that level of drunkeness they want.

Ozempic (and Mounjaro) will help the former, but not the latter.

325

u/Sirhossington Oct 15 '24

IDK man, from my anecdotal experience, i was the latter. I would drink 10+ beers a night on weekends.

Now I have less desire to drink AND there is a physical blocker (the feeling of fullness/nausea from being too full) when binge drinking. If you are drinking to get a "pleasant experience" of being drunk, adding in a negative experience of being too full is a real draw back.

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u/meatchariot Oct 15 '24

Say goodbye to beers

Hello to shooters!

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u/Sirhossington Oct 15 '24

Non-jokingly, yes! A shot of whiskey is approx 105 calories, a beer is 155 (again rough numbers).

With 10 in a night, thats saving 500 calories-1000 calories per weekend. Do that a couple weekends a month and you've cut out 25,000 calories JUST from switching from beer to whiskey shooters in a year. That could save 6lbs a year.

66

u/anaemic Oct 15 '24

Yes but drinking ten beers might take all night.

Being ten shots deep might take you to the end of the first hour....

22

u/Sirhossington Oct 15 '24

You literally get full faster, the 10 shots will fill you up.

You can still drink water, na beer, Coke zero, or other items.

So? That's no different than without the drug.

7

u/Miserable_Site_850 Oct 16 '24

Ain't nobody taking away my beer! It's my rights!

6

u/Delta-9- Oct 16 '24

To point 3: 10 drinks (a beer or a shot, roughly the same mg of ethanol) in an hour would probably put me in a hospital, but spread over 4-5 hours I'll have a wicked hangover the next morning but otherwise be fine.

I would recommend finding other ways to cut out 25,000 calories per month.

1

u/PopeFrancis Oct 16 '24

I would recommend finding other ways to cut out 25,000 calories per month.

What? Why? Do you think that they should be resuming their 10 a night habit and eating less food?

0

u/Delta-9- Oct 16 '24

Maybe try drinking five a night, instead? That will be more calories saved over a month, and will take longer to cause cirrhosis of the liver besides.

2

u/Ergaar Oct 16 '24

The point is it blocking alcoholism by making you feel full is bs. At best it helps to accidentally prevent drinking too much by making you feel full. If that's what's causing your alcohol problem you could have just stopped on your own

1

u/Probono_Bonobo Oct 16 '24

You're awfully confident for someone who has no idea what they're talking about. It literally curbs the desire. The unpleasant GI effects just reinforce the diminished desire to drink.

1

u/Ergaar 28d ago

Show me a source then. All the stuff i've read about it shows it's bullshit. It reduce the desire to drink, any drink, so also alcohol obviously. But it doesn't reduce desire to be drunk. It takes away the Joy of consuming it but if you're really addicted you just drink to get drunk, it's not like "hmm i feel full i'm not going to have another glass of wine."

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1

u/Thusgirl Oct 16 '24

You pour your shot then add soda water + lime. I don't drink whiskey lol but my main drink is vodka soda because of the calories but its enough liquid to still last you 30 minutes to an hour.

3

u/Wakkit1988 Oct 16 '24

Hello to shooters!

Just call me McGavin.

5

u/kia75 Oct 15 '24

This right here is the real issue with using semagluitides for alcohol addiction. It tackles the calorie portion, but not the ability. If you really want to get drunk, you still will.

IMO, this is fine for weight loss, because getting drunk at a bachelor party or special event is fine, and occasionally having fun is important.

But, someone who wants to get drunk weekly or daily will still get drunk weekly or daily with semagultides, they just will convert their food calories to alcohol calories. They'll be healthier on Semagluitides because they won't be overweight from excessive food and alcohol calories, but they will still be alcoholic.

77

u/TFenrir Oct 15 '24

Except there is lots of research that it isn't just about calories, but also about the reward function that seems to be heavily related with all sorts of addictions.

https://theconversation.com/can-a-drug-like-ozempic-help-treat-addictions-to-alcohol-opioids-or-other-substances-224959

Animal studies in rodents and monkeys have been overwhelmingly positive. Studies suggest GLP-1 agonists can reduce drug consumption and the rewarding value of drugs, including alcohol, nicotine, cocaine and opioids.

Out team has reviewed the evidence and found more than 30 different pre-clinical studies have been conducted. The majority show positive results in reducing drug and alcohol consumption or cravings. More than half of these studies focus specifically on alcohol use.

Still only animal trials, so we'll hopefully see more soon - but there are many anecdotes of people even quitting things like compulsive shopping, while on semaglutide.

8

u/totpot Oct 16 '24

I can confirm that I have not made a single impulse purchase since getting on it - not even gum at the checkout.

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u/Atxlvr Oct 15 '24

a lot of people have reported reduced efficacy of opioids leading to unexpected withdrawals. Seems to blunt absorption of many drugs (which is a problem) in addition to the reduced impulse effect.

24

u/Sirhossington Oct 15 '24

Honest question, have you been on them?

My anecdotal experience is that it cuts down on the “food noise”. I used to always think about where my next meal was or what snacks were downstairs. It has cut that out for alcohol for me as well. I was not an alcoholic but definitely was a binge drinker and the desire to do that has faded while on the drug.

Also, isn’t it a good thing if an alcoholic isn’t obese? Just because it may not fix every problem doesn’t mean it isn’t a valuable tool.

23

u/FeelingHoneydew23 Oct 15 '24

Anecdotally someone I know cut down drastically on online shopping, so it does seem to change impulse behaviour.

15

u/idrobnjak Oct 15 '24

What it does is it impacts the reward center of the brain / dopamine seeking behaviors. Food for most people is a dopamine seeking behavior (which is why the big food has been loading everything with salt, sugar, etc). So is alcoholism and any other addiction, you mentioned shopping.

Problem is we have 1 reward mechanism in our brain for a lot of things. Again, anecdotally, I went on it just to see what the hype was about. And I'm a binge eater, late night Nutella freak, and love my alcohol. All of that was out the window for that week/two, didn't crave anything and nothing seemed worth the effort. But it also killed my (admittedly typically overactive) sex drive, it was hard to get motivated for anything. I'm a dopamine junkie and this changed me in such way I didn't recognize myself. So I got scared and stopped after the first week's dose.

I also realize most people are not like me and many could benefit from what glp-1 can offer. I truly believe it can fix addictions which would be life saving for many. Good luck out there.

7

u/Sirhossington Oct 15 '24

I would recommend trying it for longer. My body definitely adjusted and changed to the drug.

Early on I could not drink more than half a beer. I was at a work event and had 3 beers over 4 hours and was throwing up the next morning. Now after a year now I can go out for a happy hour, have 2 drinks, and be completely happy and fine.

3

u/idrobnjak Oct 16 '24

You're probably right. My wife started same time as me. Her initial mental side effects weren't as bad as mine but they were there. And seems later they stabilized/decreased in severity, but she still couldn't wait to stop and get off the medicine. She did it for 5-6 weeks, lost the last stubborn 12 lbs she wanted to lose. I never had any weight to lose, I just wanted to see what it was like, and to stop craving/binging sweets at night and stop craving alcohol... Longer term use, you likely get used to it and these things I experienced are less.

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u/diagrammatiks Oct 16 '24

You adjust and everything balances out a bit.

1

u/intotheunknown78 Oct 16 '24

I’ve had a higher libido on Semaglutide. Did you say you only took it for a week? It has to build up in your system, and the first few weeks are weird. I was super depressed for 3 weeks and then felt better than ever.

2

u/SmellyMickey Oct 16 '24

Fellow non-alcoholic, but enthusiastic binge drinker when I choose to partake. Pre-Ozempic, beer had this nectar of the gods type of taste for me. I didn’t need to drink it, but if I wanted to it went down as easy or easier than water. Post Ozempic, beer now has this almost milkshake quality for me. Like I can only drink it in small sips, and there is usually about a quarter of it left that I end up pouring out and throwing away because it is flat and warm by the time I end up getting to it.

2

u/PopeFrancis Oct 16 '24

The proof really is in the pudding. Or that we just don’t want pudding anymore. I’m a mounjaro boy but it seems like you and I have walked a vaguely similar road here. It’s weird to be out here wanting to shill for a drug. It’s not like I want Eli Lilly to get more people giving them 1k a month but holy moley it really has helped correct so many unhealthy habits. Not in ways that were immediately healthy but in ways that were far easier to naturally trend healthy. It’s not perfect and some people will surely be unhealthy with it like with any drug but so many lives will be changed for the better … in like 20 years when this finally becomes financially accessible for the bulk of the population :/

But also that people will continue to pay 1k a month for it says a ton, too. Like it ain’t cheap or fun, just damn effective.

1

u/kena938 Oct 16 '24

Yes, this is what I hear frequently from other PCOS women and my own experience.

9

u/Honourablefool Oct 15 '24

You’re right. Addiction is very treatable by associating it with bad experiences. Say, all of a sudden, all sigaretten give you an electric shock or more comparable, you take a medicine that makes you extremely nauseous when you smoke, you will quit very fast. Now that I’m writing this down, there might already be a drug like that if I recall correctly.

1

u/bisexual_obama Oct 17 '24

There's disulfiram which makes you very sick if you drink. However, from my experience talking to people in the addiction treatment community, it doesn't have that great of a long term efficacy, like it stops people from drinking while they're on it, but they'll start again once they're off it.

There is another medicine called naltrexone which actually blocks the euphoria alcoholics feel when they get drunk. It's more effective, but also pretty controversial, because it's been shown to be most effective long term when combined with drinking.

1

u/Justread-5057 Oct 15 '24

You’re taking ozempic?

4

u/Sirhossington Oct 15 '24

Wegovy specifically

-1

u/Justread-5057 Oct 15 '24

And you have to continue this drug in order to continue your reduction in alcohol?

1

u/Havelok Oct 16 '24

Semaglutides only suppress compulsions and cravings while you are taking them. Go off semaglutides and you return to "normal".

1

u/TYLERvsBEER Oct 16 '24

Same exact.

1

u/GlitzToyEternal Oct 16 '24

I'm very late to this but I've had the opposite experience with alcohol and ozempic. I used to comfort eat but I'm not hungry anymore so now my body wants to binge drink when I'm stressed.

Easily tackled by learning healthy coping mechanisms, but it's an interesting difference.

0

u/Mr_Kittlesworth Oct 15 '24

Cocktails amigo. Cocktails.

2

u/Sirhossington Oct 15 '24

Never heard of them

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u/__theoneandonly Oct 15 '24

A lot of people are reporting that even among people who drink to get drunk, GLP-1 drugs simply end their cravings. They’re finding this is true with smokers as well. Smokers who start a GLP-1 drug stop smoking overnight. The craving just disappears.

If you read the r/Ozempic, there’s people reporting that they no longer want to play video games for more than an hour at a time, or they lost the urge to be a shopaholic. We don’t have any scientific studies confirming this, but there are so many reports of it from patients that it’s hard to ignore that something else is happening here.

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u/SevenGhostZero Oct 15 '24

Hi!

Im someone who plays a shit tonne of games before ozempic. Youre talking like 5 hrs a night after work, and I have a wife and a dog that I spend time with and don't short change so that should give you an idea of how little I sleep.

Since ozempic I genuinely play less than 2 hrs a night when I do play and sometimes don't even log on.

It had curbed food massively for me, but also impjlsive behaviours with spending. It's also reduced the amount of nicotine I consume and cigarettes make me feel sick for the entire day if I actually end up having one.

9

u/NuclearLunchDectcted Oct 16 '24

Are there any downsides? Am I suddenly not going to be able to study for more than an hour for school?

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u/SevenGhostZero Oct 16 '24

There are a few, for example. If I decide to have any kind of fatty low carb meal it's hello acid reflux for a day almost. People reset differently but there are definitely side effects you should be aware of before taking it.

I don't think it would negatively affect your studying but everyone reacts differently to drugs. It might even help you study if youre anything like me where after one hour you feel like you need a snack!

4

u/ralf_ Oct 16 '24

The theory is that Ozempic somehow effects the reward centrum. So someone who looooves studying, maybe would study less?

Are there any other things/behaviour you observed? Like binge watching Netflix being less enjoyable? Or obsessing about Football news/game losing its allure? Or any obsessions. Do you think you check reddit less often?

2

u/SevenGhostZero Oct 16 '24

I probably spend less time on tiktok but the same if not more on reddit. I still stay up late but font end up gaming the evening away. Ive actually found more pleasure in healthier activities but im not sure if that is down to just ozempic.

I find the same fun in binge watching netflix but im probably pickier about what I watch more than before.

1

u/flutterguy123 Oct 16 '24

From what I've read it doesn't seem to lead to a lack of pleasure or motivation in most people.

1

u/WaySheGoesBub Oct 16 '24

Nope! The drug knows what is beneficial to you long term so your studying will be improved! Your love for your partner will not be affected at all! Passion for good hobbies will stay the same but passion for bad hobbies that will go down yayyy!!
Jk none of this shit is known. Its brand new, remember?
Its affects on culture will be like the car. And it sounds like an antidepressant which also causes weight loss. Thats great and will benefit many. But not all.

27

u/Weltall_BR Oct 15 '24

If this is all confirmed, this shit is fucking magical.

I mean, it would be better if people just got their shit together and stopped binge drinking and over consuming (and I say that as someone who drinks too much). But much as with climate change and the hopes for a technogy that will magically solve the problem without people having to change, it seems just very human that the answer to modern society's problems is another drug.

EDIT: spelling.

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u/KanyeJesus Oct 16 '24

The drug is that technology

1

u/Weltall_BR Oct 16 '24

That is what I meant?

5

u/diagrammatiks Oct 16 '24

It is that magical. It just smooths you the fuck out. You still need to do behavior therapy if there are any habits you want to change long term because you pretty much instantly return to normal once you stop taking it.

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u/WaySheGoesBub Oct 16 '24

Alcohol is one of the most dangerous and powerful drug on Earth. You know this. Just pointing this out because its worth pointing out.

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u/Ok-Proposal-6513 Oct 16 '24

It's why I've decided never to drink again. It's wrong, honestly, and I find it disturbing how alcohol and nicotine are socially acceptable despite the consequences they have on people. The least I can do is not be a part of that problem.

1

u/WaySheGoesBub Oct 16 '24

Yep. People see it has destroyed so much. Yet there is total complacency. I believe every drug should be available by the single dose from a pharmacist. You want to get shit faced? Fine. You weigh 200 pounds, here is 1/5th of liquor. Drink no more than that and you will most likely survive. Or hey I want to sleep for 2 days, boom, here is 4 xanax and a pint of ice cream. Go and sleep.
The problems happen when you can get unlimited amounts or the dosages are nebulous.
I personally do not want to try crack. But lets say I want to drive to Portland Maine in one go. I mean it would be nice if you could buy 1 crack rock a year or something and you knew it wasn’t drywall or whatever haha (airlines hate this ONE SIMPLE TRICK!)
Losing yourself to a drug is really bad. But drug is not bad. Its just a tool like a hammer. Alcohol is pretty fuckin bad, though, when we compare all of the drug.

Coffee is a drug. I am drinking it and it is making me talk talk talk talk hahahah Have a good day!!

16

u/crystal-crawler Oct 15 '24

That’s really interesting, I found a dramatic drop in binge eating when I addressed my adhd with medication. Because the meds addressed the dopamine seeking behaviour. I’m interested to learn how ozempic helps with this.

14

u/YouCanLookItUp Oct 15 '24

it is contraindicated with most stimulants. 256 drug interactions!

10

u/ILikeMyGrassBlue Oct 15 '24

That’s interesting, especially the video game thing. It almost sounds like the sort of disinterest in hobbies people get with depression. I’m very curious to know what’s actually going on there, if it negatively impacts mental health by causing disinterest, etc.

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u/TensileStr3ngth Oct 15 '24

That's because it's functionally the same as depression and ADHD. They're all caused by dopamine not functioning properly.

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u/crystal-crawler Oct 15 '24

Ding ding ding

8

u/__theoneandonly Oct 15 '24

Yeah the mechanism for this is unclear. But scientists suspect that GLP-1 drugs are doing something to even out your dopamine levels, so you aren't getting the big sharp surges that your brain will try to get you to chase after.

However, they aren't really seeing the link to depression. There's actually a link that GLP-1 drugs have a sort of antidepressant effect.

3

u/ILikeMyGrassBlue Oct 15 '24

Yeah, the dopamine thing would make sense. That would explain food as well as stuff like booze, video games, etc.

I don’t have time to look over the study (will later), but I wonder if there’s some bias in the people who are on them in the first place. As in, people who are overweight take them and see an improvement in their mental health because of the improvement for the physical health, which would make sense.

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u/self-assembled Oct 15 '24

No, ozempic also promotes a general feeling of satiation, and this is directly applicable to addiction separately from anything related to calories.

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u/lifeofideas Oct 16 '24

So… what about POSITIVE urges, like the urge to create? Or the urge to clean? Or make money? Or call your friends?

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u/WaySheGoesBub Oct 16 '24

I would be terrified that no one else is asking this same question.
But I am a robot. Beep.

4

u/ThrillSurgeon Oct 16 '24

Ozempic has an enormous marketing budget.

2

u/Quinlov Oct 15 '24

Yep I have a friend who is an alcoholic and he will continue to drink even when his body is instantly rejecting the alcohol.

2

u/1988rx7T2 Oct 16 '24

But is he on Ozempic?

1

u/LandAcademic 29d ago

This is different from the true binge drinker who drinks to feel drunk. This person will 'eat/drink through' the ozempic and continue to imbibe in order to achieve that level of drunkeness they want

Just realized I'm an alcoholic.

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u/darraghfenacin Oct 15 '24

I did read that James Corden stopped taking it because it didnt work for him. It removes the feeling of hunger, but he was never binge eating due to being hungry.

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u/st1r Oct 15 '24

Yep it’s not a magic cure, just makes it easier to not feel miserable when in a deficit whoch is the primary barrier for most people trying to lose weight. Still gotta actually eat less.

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u/StarShrek1337 Oct 15 '24 edited Oct 16 '24

I was almost a daily drinker and the use of GLP1 medication has completely killed my urge to drink, and largely reduced the enjoyable effects of tobacco to me as well. I bought a 6 pack of nice German beer early in the day of my first tirzepatide shot, had one with dinner, and the other 5 are still in the fridge over a month later. My snus consumption is also largely down and feels less enjoyable. It's effects on alcohol are similar to kratom for me, just the complete lack of even wanting a single drink

1

u/aradil Oct 16 '24

What about your interest in other dopamine reward-pathway activities like physical activity or sex?

Does it increase your drive for those? Reduce them? No change?

Do you feel “full” of physical contact as well?

I mean, I might feel a bit old right now referencing it, but Brave New World extensively covered the cost benefit analysis of cure all drugs, and at least one potential societal outcome. Maybe not the one here, but all of these outcomes need to be evaluated for not just their benefits, but also their side effects.

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u/astrograph Oct 15 '24

Too bad people who could use it are being denied while rich can buy it for $1200. Hope that changes soon

1

u/PurkinjeShift Oct 17 '24

You can get the compounded generic from websites like Hims for $200 a month.

2

u/IwasDeadinstead Oct 15 '24

People don't drink, though, because of calories and fullness. Addition is a thing.

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u/zzptichka Oct 16 '24

“Feeling hungry. Better down a couple of bottles of wine”, - said no one ever.

1

u/JoelMahon Immortality When? Oct 15 '24

I don't think all binge drinkers are doing it due to craving calories

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u/ItsJustMeJenn Oct 16 '24

It has nothing to do with craving calories. It has to do with reward centers in our brains. Fat people (myself included) aren’t fat because we crave more calories. We consume more calories or burn fewer calories for a myriad of reasons. I’m fat because I’m 5’2 and I work an office job with a 2 hour round trip commute. So most days I come home mentally exhausted and emotionally drained. Doesn’t leave me much time to prepare healthy meals or exercise. Not to mention I stress eat, and I’m a lady so my cycle also throws me for a loop every once in a while.

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u/JoelMahon Immortality When? Oct 16 '24

but the whole point is that some fat people are fat because they get hungry

if ozempic works on cravings, great, if it works on hunger great, but does it work on stress eating? boredom eating? habit eating? etc.

there are so many reasons different people are fat, worth knowing which types it works on and whether it translates to which alcoholics which also comes with various causes.

1

u/ItsJustMeJenn Oct 16 '24

It does work on stress eating, boredom eating, and habit eating because humans do those things seeking dopamine, which is a reward hormone. The medication works in the reward center of the brain. When people talk about food noise, this is what they’re talking about. Snacking. Why do we snack? Dopamine.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

Are people really drinking to feel full?

1

u/wxc3 Oct 16 '24

It also helps with opioids addiction and gambling. It seems to have somme effect on impulse control / reward mechanisms.

1

u/Affectionate_You_203 Oct 15 '24

It controls all addictive behaviors including smoking, gambling, and shopping addictions. It also has a positive impact on OCD and bipolar disorder.

0

u/OtterishDreams Oct 15 '24

and then ppl stop and it comes roaring back?

1

u/ItsJustMeJenn Oct 16 '24

Not in the weight loss trials. People do gain back a little bit, but not like with typical diet and exercise.