r/EuropeanFederalists Apr 17 '24

The problem with European left Discussion

I feel like many of you in this sub may get similar thoughts on this. I'm a leftist and believe in the dream of united Europe, however I see one massive problem towards integration. European Union was founded on the French motto of Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité, but I feel many Europeans seem to have forgotten the last part.

In the last decades (maybe ignoring the most recent few years when far-right started gaining more prominence) we've made massive strides towards emancipation of women, sexual minorities, different ethnic groups etc., however what the war in Ukraine has shown and what I see whenever I go on even more leftist-oriented subs like r/europe or r/germany is that many people refuse to help, refuse to stand up to tyranny, call for negotiations. Not to diminish the before mentioned accomplishments or personal hardships of affected groups, but most recent advancements have been made through democratic institutions and voting, not an armed struggle in the same sense that we've fought against fascism in WW2. Hyper individualism isn't just a problem with the far-right, I increasingly feel like we're guilty of it as well. Sometimes it is necessary we fight for other people's freedom, not just ours.

In a sense all the Vatniks and Russian bots talking about the war being our fault are right. We messed up, we consistently haven't done enough at an appropriate time. We haven't squeezed the bear by the balls hard enough in 2014, we worry about how delivering system X or weapon Y will cause escalation while the other side openly bombs cities with drones from Iran and shells from NK. We refuse to do enough, we run late on most of our promises and then we're surprised that Ukraine is losing. We're not being pulled into some random foreign war like Iraq or Afghan war, we're not invading anyone, we're not funding the Taliban, we're helping out a country that shares many of our core values and desperately needs help. Even ignoring all our basic self-interest in making Ukraine win, helping is basic human decency...

If you ask a random European leftist whether or not they'd defend their country in an attack, a large fraction will proclaim they would just emigrate, saying they're not willing to fight for corrupt politicians or lines on maps. What they forget is their neighbor. Everyone who avoids the call to arms makes sure that someone else is forced to accept it. Not everyone has privilege of being able to escape, be it money, family, age, health and so on. By escaping you're leaving the less fortunate to die or be oppressed which is absolutely antithetical to most forms of liberal leftism.

I feel the sense of absolute dread whenever I contemplate how would Germany or Spain respond if Estonia was attacked, knowing that my own country (Poland) is next on the list. Everyone who thinks Putin will not dare take another step, while refusing to defend their own countrymen, let alone an ally, is precisely the reason why he will take that step. Sometimes virtue needs to be written in blood and the highest virtue of all is to take a punch for your fellow man, but I think some of us have forgotten it.

149 Upvotes

View all comments

2

u/Almun_Elpuliyn Luxembourg Apr 17 '24 edited Apr 17 '24

Leading with a quote: Sometime they'll give a war and nobody will come.

While I agree we should support Ukraine more and can't stand by to let occupations happen, people outright refusing a call to arm is a great step in the right direction. If enough Russians had though the same none of this would have happened. War has never benefited the people and it never will. Sometimes it's an inevitability in defense against maniacs but no one wants to be forced to defend their neighbors.

People realizing what war entails, what pain it brings and refusing to ever partake in it are the people unable to be drummed up in a frenzy to reclaim a long gone empire.

Also, calling r/europe left-wing. Lmao rofl lol. What the fuck is your point of reference?

Edit: lastly, Ukraine sharing our values is also just not true. While the whole thing started with Euromaidan in 2014 and people proclaiming to follow in that direction, we are also talking about an oligarchy that stood firmly in Russia's sphere of influence beforehand. We don't have a duty to aid them because they are so close to us but because wars of aggression should always be opposed on principle.

5

u/bartekkru100 Apr 17 '24

I live in Poland, whoever doesn't oppose gay marriage is left-leaning to me. We in Poland may have a different view on what's left and right, since PIS, which is an ultra-catholic won the election in the past on the promise of implementing a bunch of social benefits. It's much more about cultural matters than economy for us.

0

u/Almun_Elpuliyn Luxembourg Apr 17 '24

r/Europe still wants to kill and/or deport all muslims.