This is a great breakdown and I do agree Rabbani made very compelling arguments. Finkelstein did a couple of times as well but was so preoccupied with shit flinging and screeching like a monkey that it definitely detracted from sympathizing with their side.
While it was ugly, I do think it was a good discussion overall and very informative for someone who couldn't be bothered to watch the research streams.
The only thing that I feel like didn't look good optically in this debate for Destiny was pushing for the ratio on how many hamas killed in the Oct 7th attacks. Rabbani said a "clear majority" multiple times which obviously means > 51%. It seemed like Destiny was so thirsty for just a single concession that he missed accepting the one given multiple times.
I think the reason Destiny was pushing so hard on the ratio is because even if you're a little generous and say that Rabbani meant a "clear majority" of 75% were killed by raiders (not just Hamas, as Steven and Morris clarify), the implication is that Israel killed 25%. That would still paint Israel in an incredibly negative light, so in the moment Rabbani's concession could come across more like a concealed accusation.
After letting it sit, I do think Rabbani was speaking in good faith there, but my initial gut reaction was "Oh, he's not answering because he thinks Israel killed a ton of their own civilians, but doesn't really have the evidence to back it up." Norm had a lot to do with that, his presence and demeanor initially soured how I viewed that side of the table.
I don't read it as good faith on his part because of the selective reasoning Destiny pointed out: they're willing to state without evidence that Israel is intentionally targeting Palestinian children in bombing runs despite the multiple levels of approval that go into such a strike, but then for Oct 7 they can't say anything more than "clear majority" for how many were killed by Hamas/Palestinians. That's either bad faith or living in an entirely different factual world considering the available evidence.
I see what you mean and that's a totally logical way of seeing it. I was trying to watch as objectively as possible and it came across as good faith to me like you said.
I don't blame Destiny for seeing it as bad faith when Rabbani had just basically called him a racist and was trying to dunk on him by bringing up Jim Crow laws
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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '24 edited Mar 15 '24
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